old vs new

[tremens]

moved from G310GS thread

Originally Posted by Walkabout

But charged as a minimum of 1 hour by any main dealer.

Do half a dozen of them in an hour and charge them all for the same hour.

but who goes to dealer for pads change...

[Bones667]

Originally Posted by tremens

but who goes to dealer for pads change...

A lot of BMW owners

[brclarke]

To be fair, I expect that most motorcyclists do. Gone are the days when most riders had a garage full of tools. Now most riders take their bikes into the shop maybe once a year and ask the mechanic to do a full service.

[ThirtyOne]

Originally Posted by brclarke

To be fair, I expect that most motorcyclists do. Gone are the days when most riders had a garage full of tools. Now most riders take their bikes into the shop maybe once a year and ask the mechanic to do a full service.

Interesting thought. I imagine you’re probably right too. I do my own work, but a number of my friends won’t lift a finger to tighten a fastener. It never made sense to me to have someone else do the work unless it’s something I don’t have the tools or skills for. (Or time)

[brclarke]

In a way it's progress. I find that most bikes these days are surprisingly reliable. When I had an Enfield Bullet 20 years ago, I was constantly adjusting and tightening stuff on it - nothing major, but I never left the house without a few extra tools in the saddle bags, just in case.

My Yamaha might be a 20 year old design, but it's never given me a lick of trouble in four years; it's been flawless and almost maintenance-free. I can only think that more modern designs are even more reliable - or should be.

[mollydog]

The big four Japanese bikes have been reliable (for the most part) for over 40 years. Even my Hondas from the 60's were reliable! And TOUGH!

And you could argue they are even MORE reliable today. But a few comments:

Now with more computers in use on ALL bikes, some bikes are less owner DIY friendly. Seems to be especially the case with BMW and some extent, KTM. BMW's computers can preclude owners doing some basics or diagnostics.

You need a proprietary BMW computer program to track down a "Flag". (problem)

This and other modern "innovations" by BMW and others, means owners are more tied to dealers than ever.

Of course some basic services can still be done by an owner with skills and tools. (valve adjustments, oil change, tire change)

But now SO MUCH is linked to the various computers on these bikes, it's may be hard to know how to proceed without the dealer or your own BMW specific computer App or device.

[tremens]

Originally Posted by brclarke

My Yamaha might be a 20 year old design, but it's never given me a lick of trouble in four years; it's been flawless and almost maintenance-free. I can only think that more modern designs are even more reliable - or should be.

I don't think so there is such thing as maintenance free with any vehicles. You want to be safe you need to keep an eye on crucial components. Chain, oil, lube, tyres, bearings, pads, alignments, cracks, etc etc you cannot get away from this. I fly Cesna small airplane as private pilot and there is a check list all around the plane before we take off. Even if mechanic do things for you, you have to verify it and be sure it's working properly, it's your life.

Also, with reliability it's not that simple - maybe current bikes break less often although that's arguable but if they break usually you cannot fix them by yourself. So which one would prefer for RTW trip? I take 15 years old yamaha or honda any time of the day over newest models.

[*Touring Ted*]

Originally Posted by tremens

moved from G310GS thread





but who goes to dealer for pads change...

A lot of people. Pretty much 90% of folk who are still under their 2 year warranty or extended warranty will too. But changing pads on a BMW is a very quick and easy job, so it doesn't really cost a lot, labour wise.

But a BMW dealer will only fit BMW pads. They're Brembo and cost nearly £100 for a single caliper. .

So, if you bring a GS to a dealer and need a full set of pads, you're looking at nearly £300 for the job.

I service a lot of bikes. Most BMW's I see in the dealers only have their tyres inflated and chains adjusted/oiled on their annual service too.

It's quite unbelievable.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*

A lot of people. Pretty much 90% of folk who are still under their 2 year warranty or extended warranty will too. But changing pads on a BMW is a very quick and easy job, so it doesn't really cost a lot, labour wise.

But a BMW dealer will only fit BMW pads. They're Brembo and cost nearly £100 for a single caliper. .

So, if you bring a GS to a dealer and need a full set of pads, you're looking at nearly £300 for the job.

I service a lot of bikes. Most BMW's I see in the dealers only have their tyres inflated and chains adjusted/oiled on their annual service too.

It's quite unbelievable.

I can believe.

Yep, plenty of UK riders change their 1200GS bike every two years so that they are

A. Always within warranty
B. Have the latest model
C. "Minimise their outgoings" - in their view/mind - budgetting for the depreciation over each change of bike.


Alternatively, some buy the extended warranty from BMW (a similar product could be bought from lots of other insurances). A few years ago that was about 35 GBP per month.


Then there is PCP; another story all together.

[Bones667]

friend of mine put his 800 into the local BMW dealer last week to try and resolve intermittent problem where bike cuts out occasionally when riding. Technician refused to test ride it as he said the steering bearings were notching and needed to be replaced.

£620 later !!!!! new bearings and cause of cutting out was restriction in the breather hoses.

Personally I try and do most of the maintenance myself on my old Fazer, but as previously mentioned, a lot of the modern bikes (and cars) are linked up to electronic gadgets or need special tools...

[backofbeyond]

Originally Posted by Bones667

friend of mine put his 800 into the local BMW dealer last week to try and resolve intermittent problem where bike cuts out occasionally when riding. Technician refused to test ride it as he said the steering bearings were notching and needed to be replaced.

£620 later !!!!! new bearings and cause of cutting out was restriction in the breather hoses.

My wife's Mini - a badge engineered BMW - was also suffering from cutting out so we contacted the supplying dealer (it's still under warranty) to book it in. No problem said the smiley dealer lady on the phone, in fact we're so customer orientated we'll send our chauffeur (her word) out to collect it, do the software upgrade in the workshop then bring it back to you. How nice to be appreciated we thought. At least we won't have to sit through a sales pitch while we wait.

The bubble only burst when the 'chauffeur' arrived. Morose and virtually monosyllabic, he walked round the car and declared the front tyres were worn beyond the point where he would drive it. That's in the nature of tyres we said, they wear, and one of the other jobs the workshop is going to do is change them. They're still not below the legal minimum so no problem, right? Wrong. We got a lecture about (his) health and safety then he got back in his own chauffeur driven car and was whisked away. The local tyre depot got the tyre job and the car is still both cutting out at junctions and starting itself up randomly.

It all reminded me of the time when as a callow youth biker I got 'randomly' stopped by the police. He spent some time checking the bike's mechanicals and my licence, MOT and insurance, all of which were as they should be. He finally noticed my tax disc only had a week to run and gave me a five minute lecture about how close to the edge legally I now was with my road tax about to expire! Sometime you wonder if you've wandered into a parallel universe where time, money and, particularly, logic have no meaning.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by backofbeyond

the supplying dealer

I recently spent up to one day (a whole Sunday no less) looking into changing a 4 wheeler; that was as long as I was prepared to waste of my remaining life in such activity.
And, here in the UK they are open for only 6 hours on Sundays so the clock was ticking.


After two main dealers I ended up with a family run garage company who get their new cars via the allocations made to one of the previously visited main dealers.
That's the moral of this short story; don't waste time with the main dealers but find the business that is interested in you as a customer.
By 3.30 pm that day the deal was done and I went back to doing more interesting things than chasing around car showrooms.

[*Touring Ted*]

Originally Posted by Bones667

friend of mine put his 800 into the local BMW dealer last week to try and resolve intermittent problem where bike cuts out occasionally when riding. Technician refused to test ride it as he said the steering bearings were notching and needed to be replaced.

£620 later !!!!! new bearings and cause of cutting out was restriction in the breather hoses.

Personally I try and do most of the maintenance myself on my old Fazer, but as previously mentioned, a lot of the modern bikes (and cars) are linked up to electronic gadgets or need special tools...

£620 !! For headbearings and a blocked breather. OMG !! BMW have fixed prices for jobs like this. I would suggest he asks for an itemised bill.

F800's BMW always have notchy bearings. It's because they're roller ball and not tapered. And they have almost ZERO grease from the factory. The roller balls are meant to give more feel. But they're just shite. And cheap.

If they wouldn't ride it due to bearings, then they need shaming. Unless they were so bad the yokes fell out of the frame. Which I doubt.

Any BMW dealer who knows BMW's would know that a cutting out F800 is likely to be breather hoses under the airbox that fall off or kink.

But like most dealer techs, I reckon they're probably ex-tyre fitters and on minimum wage. Sent on BMW training courses where they just eat biscuits and watch slide shows then come home with certificates calling them Master Technicians.

Can you tell me which BMW this was. Just because I'm nosey.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*

But like most dealer techs, I reckon they're probably ex-tyre fitters and on minimum wage.

A phenomena that kicked off quite a few years ago; there is a career therein, as an independent mech for BMW bikes.
Plenty of the original staff of the UK main dealers set themselves up as specialist one-man businesses taking their knowledge, experience and bought into OBD kit when the main dealers became "cut throat profit centres".

Now they advertise in such as the BMW club mag and it's possible to find one in just about every county of the country.


I know 'savvy' riders will get a good relationship going with the few decent staff who remain in the main dealers and make every effort to keep the tyre fitters away from their own bike


It's not just BMW though; most businesses in the UK work the same - run by accountants for the benefit of the suits. See Carillion for the business model par excellence.

[Bones667]

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*

£620 !! For headbearings and a blocked breather. OMG !! BMW have fixed prices for jobs like this. I would suggest he asks for an itemised bill.

F800's BMW always have notchy bearings. It's because they're roller ball and not tapered. And they have almost ZERO grease from the factory. The roller balls are meant to give more feel. But they're just shite. And cheap.

If they wouldn't ride it due to bearings, then they need shaming. Unless they were so bad the yokes fell out of the frame. Which I doubt.

Any BMW dealer who knows BMW's would know that a cutting out F800 is likely to be breather hoses under the airbox that fall off or kink.

But like most dealer techs, I reckon they're probably ex-tyre fitters and on minimum wage. Sent on BMW training courses where they just eat biscuits and watch slide shows then come home with certificates calling them Master Technicians.

Can you tell me which BMW this was. Just because I'm nosey.

I think you are right Ted. The dealership was Dick Lovett Bristol Cribs Causeway. Fairly new dealership mainly a car sales set up with a bike showroom on the side!! We used to have a really good old school BMW set up at Bath Road M/C where the Technicians Knew their stuff. Still there but franchise taken away when new place opened.

Funny enough my neighbour actually told them it maybe the breather hoses after reading a load of issues on the net... He is off touring France this week so I'll get him to check his invoice when he returns. They also told him his rear pads were very low but when they told him the price he bought pattern ones and did it him self .. crazy money

Cheers
Bones