Travelers originating from "distant and exotic" places?

[Wheelie]

Seemingly HU is overwhelmingly represented by "westerners" longing for lands and cultures that are far far far away, in addition to "unusual" and "exotic" (to us) - often less developed and primitive than the countries we were borned and raised in. We both enjoy and promote the cultural exchanges, and assist each other in any way we can. On our travels we are welcomed, supported and even hosted as VIP guests by locals everywhere we go. And, sometimes, when we think about relative means, the hospitality offered is sometimes truely mind blowing.

Our favorite pastime, exotic to most even in our part of the world not so long ago, can now even be said to be becoming quite ordinary. Now, how about the other way around?

I am yet to meet a single biker from the Middle East, South East Asia, South America, Central America, Africa... - traveling to my corner of the world (Norway). Even when really far away from home, like in the middle of Africa, I am a hundred times more likely to come across a European biker crossing a border than someone from the African continent.

Every now and then, I might hear of some biker from Japan, South-Africa, and a few other distant places going my way. But, I have never actually met any in person (neither here or on my own travels). And even less, I virtually never hear about someone from locations that are truly exotic to me. Seriously, how often do you come scross an overlander originating from Afghanistan, Congo, Bolivia or Nepal - heading even remotely close to your part of the world?

Now, we all understand to some extent the many reasons why this is the case. It is still a shame that the exchange is so extremely uneven - and "both sides" are at a loss for it.

How much would you not appreciate it, to be able to aid and befriend a fellow traveller originating from one of the countries you dream of yourself?

It makes me wonder what more can be done to inspire, to educate and to assist - on everything from cutting through red tape, the logistics, the financial side, or various other practicalities.

I see how this "us", "them", "here", "there"... "exotic", "ordinary, "primitive", etc - that the wording can come off all wrong. I do understand that we truely are an international community on the HU, and that none are inferior to another, that we all seem equally ordinary when looking at ourselves in the mirror. Whatever culture is exotic to me, will find mine exotic. Anyone that can cross a border simply for pleasure, is immensely privileged.

All I am trying to convey is; I wish that more people of cultures that I want to seek out because they are exotic to me, were found heading in my direction. And I wonder, can something be done about it,vand if so, what would it take?

[backofbeyond]

There is a longer discussion about this to be had but as I'm due out the door I'll just make one point - travel, by its very nature, is asymmetric. Wherever you go you'll meet people local to that location, and unless you've got something particular in mind, they'll be random meetings. If someone else travels to your home area the chances of you meeting them at random is pretty low. There might have been a whole load of Bolivian bike riders going through your town but as you were in the bath you never saw them.

I think it's unlikely there were a load of Bolivian bike riders I agree, but my local tourist trap (Oxford) is two deep in foreign visitors throughout the summer (or it was pre Covid). Wander round there and you'll see plenty of people from everywhere around the planet travelling in a way that works for them. Not many on bikes I admit but cultural differences may have a hand to play with that. Bottom line - absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

[cyclopathic]

I came across travelers from Japan and Korea.. China, Latin America too. Turks, kazakh, russians, philippinos, indians, thai, etc. They often speak limited english and communicate with people on travel forums in their native tongue.. if they do.

If you search for info on Brazil there will be quite a few youtube videos in portuguese. Likewise on Japan overlanding is popular there. And there are inmates here on forum from south africa.. new zealand and australia..

As for more exotic locations traveling is the privilege of rich.. in these places people strive to survive not post about travels on social media. If they spend their last money to buy ticket to Ecuador with intention to walk across Darien gap they won't be posting here.. they live in different reality. I had seen them in northern mexico, was never compelled to interact.

Likewise wasn't interested in middle east looking guys at Serbian border crossing, hiding behind billboard and waiting for night to make a run.. the real travelers.

[Snakeboy]

Well thats an interesting subject.

During my RTW trip I am quite sure I met most nationals from Germany, they seem to be a nation of travellers. But Germany are definetively «westerners» so that doesnt count. The second most nationals I met was people from the Czeck republic, and even though they are kinda westerners they are from a country that belonged to the «other side» of Europe with all that still goes with that, economically and geopolitically.

So to the subject - there are a couple of very clear objective reasons we dont see many international travellers from Bolivia, Nepal, Congo etc.
First its the economical reason. We westerners can work hard a few years and save up money to buy a motorbike and travel a year or 3. Because western money lasts a long time in south and central America and even longer in souteast Asia for example. A person, even a relatively priveliged person from Congo, Nepal or Bolivia will never have the money to buy a motorbike and travel to Europe or north America. They can maybe travel to a neighbor country or 3 but never to «the west». It is simply out of theyre economical reach.

Secondly - the geopolitical system. How much buraucrasy would it take for a congolese or nepalese to travel through Europe and or north America?

I got to know a traveller from Thailand while I was doing my RTW trip. He was some months behind me on the loop and I gave him some info about this and that and I startee following his blog. And by all means - this thai guy was a well educated and smart guy with good economy even with western standards. But still he now and then he had to visit embassies just to apply for visas in countries all westerners would get a visa on arrival. Apply and pay, get documents and wait, and wait and wait - before he finally could get his visas. And this was countries like Uruguay and Brasil - not any superspecial bananarepublics.

Getting visas for priveliged countries for a person from a non-priveliged country is very very very difficult. Thats just how it has become nowadays - unfortunately. Thus travelling possibilities for such persons is very limited. A group tour for a week - arranged by a travel agency maybe. But a trip alone through multiple countries for a year or 3 - extremely difficult!

[Hound_Dog]

Dont forget that the cost of travel to many from, especially developing nations, is proportionally much higher. Lower incomes, greater employment challenges and family responsibilities can represent significant challenges to those people.

[Wheelie]

I've personally met overlanders who has travelled the world on a shoe string. Having left home with virtually no money or gear, maybe just a moped, some basic personal items, and s bit of pocket change. Travelling very slowly, working for food and s place to crash, and a few bucks here and there. Some travel indefinitely and have been gone for years. I once met this young German kid who took his classic 50cc Vespa and criss crossed Africa for three years, living mostly off of simple grains.

I've also noticed (and benefited from personally), that if you travel on a piece of unsuitable kit with a large international fan base, clubs and other fans across the planet will go way out of their ways to enable your continued yourney.

Also, I've met plenty of very privileged people from very not do privileged places - some who has been on every continent. None have been overlanders.

There is as has been mentioned, the financial aspect of it - where there are solutions for the most motivated. I'm pretty sure that different communities across the globe would go far in helping an unlikely fellow in all sorts of ways. Sure the financial aspect can to a large extent explain much. I still believe that the geopolitical aspect is the number one reason - many people are simply not allowed to travel as freely.

A community like ours could easily "sponsor" the occasional overlander from say a place like Guinea Bissau or some other unlikely place. Many of us would be happy to offer free room and board, receive mail, serve as a host for visa applications, give them some work to make a few bucks, donate used equipment we can easily part with, fill up their tank, give some provisions, and put some money in their pocket, etc, etc. We would use our connections to help find other Samaritan's along the route.

The really truely difficult bit for many will be the red tape. They could have the funds, but still find it extremely difficult to be able to travel - at least legally.

There used to be s time when western adventures got plenty of sponsors to ve the first to do something or another. The first woman, the youngest guy, the first with a particular means of transport, doing something for a particular cause as a fundraiser, the first doing this or that... Those days are long gone as doing obscure things has been common place - at least in our part of the world.

What got me thinking about all of this was reading about the Ted Simon Foundation here on HU - a foundation set up to help travellers (albeit mostly about getting published, etc) - really great stuff.

What would have been just as great would be a foundation that would help an unlikely overlander to actually be able to do the overlanding bit in the first place, and maybe getting published as part of that solution (to fund their own trip/return and to help those that would follow in their fottsteps). I'm thinking about something like a network of experts in relevant fields, donors/sponsors, as well as a network of Samaritans - spread out across the planet - people and organisations that would come together to give practical aid to a single eligible traveller - ensure their success. A review board could choose which applicants who would become eligible for the foundations aid...

Unrealistic I know, but dreaming is free.

Hopefully we will meet or hear about more and more unlikely overlanders, journeying through our own back yards in a not to distant future.

[cyclopathic]

@Wheelie I understand that sometimes you just wanna rant and get it off your chest but if it bothers you just help next guy you see instead of coming up with complicated schemes.

Buy them lunch, fill up tank, share camping spot.. give them half of your food supply. Help them to fix flat. It will be appreciated what goes around comes around and you never know when you would need it yourself. And it isn't only overlanders truck drivers are similar "road convicts" they understand and often deal with similar predicaments.

[Alanymarce]

Originally Posted by Wheelie

It makes me wonder what more can be done to inspire, to educate and to assist - on everything from cutting through red tape, the logistics, the financial side, or various other practicalities.

Good question: let's take a couple of examples of the practicalities:

Visas:

I'm going to choose Colombia, the USA, Canada, and the UK as comparators here, for the first comparison. For Colombians getting a visa for the USA, Canada, or UK is time-consuming, difficult (perhaps not possible), and expensive; for example the cost for our UK multi-entry visa was USD 1137 (!); it has just taken us more than 3 months to renew a visa for Canada. For passport holders from USA, Canada, or UK to visit Colombia the cost of a visa is nil, because no visa is required.

Second comparison - A Colombian wishing to travel in Southern Africa must obtain the RSA visa in Caracas, the Botswana visa in Washington D.C., and the Namibian visa in São Paulo. Since the clock on the RSA visa is running the moment it’s issued, we had to take intercontinental flights to get the others as soon as possible to avoid receiving the third after the first had expired. The paperwork and cost for courier services was significant in addition. For someone from the USA, Canada, or UK to get visas to visit these three countries the cost is nil, because entry is visa-free.

Solution - visa-free travel.


Travel costs: here I'm going to compare Colombia and Denmark - for a Colombian to pay for the ferry from Denmark to Iceland (two PAX one car) would cost 11 months average post-tax income whereas it would cost a Dane one month's income.

Solution: geopolitical commitment to reducing income inequality (yes, right - easy!).

For these reasons, among others, you will not find many travellers from South America or Africa travelling in the USA, Canada, or Western Europe. You do find large numbers of South Americans travelling in South America (we've met motorcyclists from Chile in Bolivia for example) and lots of Africans travel in Africa (we've met many Africans "overlanding" in Africa). Interestingly we have met travellers from Colombia and Argentina in Australia. A visa is required, however it's online and fairly simple.

[Snakeboy]

Originally Posted by Alanymarce

Good question: let's take a couple of examples of the practicalities:

Visas:

I'm going to choose Colombia, the USA, Canada, and the UK as comparators here, for the first comparison. For Colombians getting a visa for the USA, Canada, or UK is time-consuming, difficult (perhaps not possible), and expensive; for example the cost for our UK multi-entry visa was USD 1137 (!); it has just taken us more than 3 months to renew a visa for Canada. For passport holders from USA, Canada, or UK to visit Colombia the cost of a visa is nil, because no visa is required.

Second comparison - A Colombian wishing to travel in Southern Africa must obtain the RSA visa in Caracas, the Botswana visa in Washington D.C., and the Namibian visa in São Paulo. Since the clock on the RSA visa is running the moment it’s issued, we had to take intercontinental flights to get the others as soon as possible to avoid receiving the third before the first had expired. The paperwork and cost for courier services was significant in addition. For someone from the USA, Canada, or UK to get visas to visit these three countries the cost is nil, because entry is visa-free.

Solution - visa-free travel.


Travel costs: here I'm going to compare Colombia and Denmark - for a Colombian to pay for the ferry from Denmark to Iceland (two PAX one car) would cost 11 months average post-tax income whereas it would cost a Dane one month's income.

Solution: geopolitical commitment to reducing income inequality (yes, right - easy!).

For these reasons, among others, you will not find many travellers from South America or Africa travelling in the USA, Canada, or Western Europe. You do find large numbers of South Americans travelling in South America (we've met motorcyclists from Chile in Bolivia for example) and lots of Africans travel in Africa (we've met many Africans "overlanding" in Africa). Interestingly we have met travellers from Colombia and Argentina in Australia. A visa is required, however it's online and fairly simple.

Spot on and very good and selfexplaining examples there. Most of us «westerners» have no idea at all how difficult, time consuming and expensive it is for a «third world» citizen to get visas for other countries. And often it is totally impossible!

This fact and the obvious economical reasons is why we dont see many overlanders from Nepal or Congo, Bolivia or Indonesia travelling through Europe or north America.

Sad but true!

[sushi2831]

Originally Posted by Wheelie

I've personally met overlanders who has travelled the world on a shoe string. Having left home with virtually no money or gear, maybe just a moped, some basic personal items, and s bit of pocket change. Travelling very slowly, working for food and s place to crash, and a few bucks here and there. Some travel indefinitely and have been gone for years. I once met this young German kid who took his classic 50cc Vespa and criss crossed Africa for three years, living mostly off of simple grains.

That way of life is a privilege for us (westerners, mainly white male).
Just imagine how it would work out if someone from central Africa would like to travel through Europe sponging off others like some of those (I don't need money to travel guys) do.


But even if you travel on your own money, for us it's easy to save money if you want to (maybe not for single parents), all you need is a normal job, you don't have to be from the upper class.
If working in many of the normal the jobs we do, in the third world, we would not be familiar with the concept of holiday.
And we can burn all our money and come home totaly broke and society will look after us.


Visa is the other thing, possible only for the rich.

[cyclopathic]

Bicycle is the cheapest way to travel, so you want to get more verity talk to guys on the bike.

[backofbeyond]

Originally Posted by sushi2831

But even if you travel on your own money, for us it's easy to save money if you want to (maybe not for single parents), all you need is a normal job, you don't have to be from the upper class.
If working in many of the normal the jobs we do, in the third world, we would not be familiar with the concept of holiday.
And we can burn all our money and come home totaly broke and society will look after us.


Visa is the other thing, possible only for the rich.

Yes, that's probably true at the moment (up to a point anyway), and has been over the course of my lifetime. Probably since the sixties if you're in the UK. But it hasn't always been so. It wasn't true for my father and it certainly wasn't true for anyone further back in my timeline. Our family tree research tells me I come from a long line of North of England coal miners, most of whom never travelled more than a few miles from their birthplace over the course of their lives. Travel for them was the 1/4 mile walk from the pit to the 2 rooms they lived in with 6 children. In fact I'm pretty certain I was the first in my family ever to have a passport. So the sort of travel we talk about here, and to some extent take for granted, is a recent phenomenon - for what was my stratum of society anyway.

Re Wheelie's suggestion that we "offer free room and board, receive mail, serve as a host for visa applications, give them some work to make a few bucks, donate used equipment we can easily part with, fill up their tank, give some provisions, and put some money in their pocket", I have a friend in the US who, for many years now, has been doing just that. He's had travellers staying with him for weeks on end, hosts bike groups in his garden, employs people regularly and is known in the area as someone who takes in 'waifs and strays'.

There's no thought of 'putting something back' or 'owing something to the biker community' and he's not after publicity or reward or anything like that, it's just the way he is. And that, I suspect, is probably the sort of person who'll help out if you're stuck at the side of the road somewhere. Societal norms in different countries put different expectations on people so in some places you'll find help more readily than others but I've always been surprised at the amount of assistance people have offered me when I've been in need.

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by Snakeboy

The second most nationals I met was people from the Czeck republic, and even though they are kinda westerners they are from a country that belonged to the «other side» of Europe with all that still goes with that, economically and geopolitically.

This is a bit offtopic, but I would get a little bit offended on behalf of the Czechs - for almost their entire national history a major player in the politics of the Holy Roman Empire, one of Europe's industrial and engineering powerhouses, the birthplace of what became Protestantism, etc. They just had the misfortune to be on the wrong side of a frontline in 1945.

Anyway, back on topic. Lots of good points above, and I'd add another consideration. We Westerners (*strokes his EU passport*) travel, especially overland, to a significant degree in order to escape our boring lives in a safe society. Yes, we think of them as "unfulfilling" lives, but what we're after is the excitement of not knowing what will happen to us tomorrow, and the feeling of achievement for getting through a difficult (maybe dangerous, though not TOO dangerous) situation.

Now take someone from the Global South who, maybe, even has the money to go traveling. What do they want to experience? Same as us - an environment and culture that is significantly different to what they've lived in for all of their lives. So shall someone from an upper-class Thai or Chilean family go riding a motorcycle across Africa? Eh, probably not... they might do an Interrail journey across Europe, going from Paris to Florence to Barcelona, or buy an old Cadillac and do a road trip from Los Angeles to Las Vegas to Chicago to New York.

You'll certainly find rich Third Worlders at Nordkapp... but they'll have probably gotten there by Hurtigruten cruise ship.

[tohellnback]

I am a Canadian expat living in Colombia and I have been asked countless times by Nationals on how to get a visa for Canada My answer is all-ways I have no idea because I am Canadian but I refer them to google Visa Canada and dont look up anything but the official Government of Canada web site> It is a format that turns into a Process And all other web sites want to take your money because you may think it is easier . Of Course English is the barrier for many and they are intimidated by our two official languages but there are tons of Colombians in Canada
The thing about a lot of riders I know in Colombia is that they want to see Alaska and a lot of them think they can drive there from Canada and enter Alaska with out a US visa then I say you Need a American visa too !
Many think Alaska Is a Country