Buy an America bike in Germany

[Donna Robinson]

I am Canadian and reside in Canada. I want to buy an American registered BMW in Germany. I have been riding over there for years but don’t know if I am allowed to purchase an American bike and keep it in Europe or how to re-register it and plate it with Canadian plates without the bike being over here. We would appreciate any advice. Donna Robinson….

[markharf]

So many potential pitfalls….

To begin with, you’ll need to import the bike into Canada in order to register it there. I don’t know where you get reliable information about doing that (When my sister wanted to import a US registered trailer I found out how to do that somewhere on the internet), but it’s a place to start.

Then there’s the issue of registering it locally in your province. I don’t know whether that’ll be possible (and neither does anyone else until they know what province you live in), but I have some doubts. In the US, you could go on the internet and look up the rules for whatever state you live in—some will allow registering a bike which is not present, but many won’t. I have to believe the same thing is true in Canada.

There may also be issues of insurance, safety or smog inspections, or similar. Again, you’ll want to look into requirements specific to your home province; it’s probably best not to take anyone’s word for anything until you see it in print on a government website.

You might consider registering it instead in the US state where it’s already registered—some states allow this to be done remotely, and some allow it to be done remotely by a non-resident. There are some threads here on the HUBB you can find with a site search which will start you on your way

Last, of course you’re not allowed to keep a foreign-registered bike in Europe indefinitely—that would constitute permanent importation, about which there are many, many rules and regulations. The reason I left this for last is that lots of people bend or break these rules, and most—but not all—get away with it. It’s definitely worth thinking about in terms of risk vs. consequence, and of course I’m not suggesting that you break any laws.

Hope that’s helpful.

Mark

[Grant Johnson]

As Mark said,
So many potential pitfalls….
Personally I'd have to REALLY want THAT bike to go through all the aggro - and there is a lot. This is a REALLY complicated path. My Canadian bike has been registered in the UK, and back, and that was relatively easy - but bringing a foreign bike into Canada is a hassle.

Recommendation - buy a bike in Europe, there's a guy in Ireland on the HUBB here (search the HUBB for motofeirme) as who can organize it all for you and store while you're not there. I think Stefan Knopf in Germany will also do the same.

[Rognv]

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson

there's a guy in Ireland on the HUBB here (search the HUBB for motofeirme)

Oh dear Grant,

I think you made a little mistake here, but you couldn´t know.

Of all the search results on the first page of results ALL of them except one are at least 6 to 12 years old. Even if there is some information in those results it´s probably old and outdated.

But that only one result which is not old (2022) is very negative about that ¨guy in Ireland¨ and unfortunally written by.................exactly, the original poster of this thread.

[RTW]

Originally Posted by markharf

So many potential pitfalls….

To begin with, you’ll need to import the bike into Canada in order to register it there. I don’t know where you get reliable information about doing that (When my sister wanted to import a US registered trailer I found out how to do that somewhere on the internet), but it’s a place to start.

Then there’s the issue of registering it locally in your province. I don’t know whether that’ll be possible (and neither does anyone else until they know what province you live in), but I have some doubts. In the US, you could go on the internet and look up the rules for whatever state you live in—some will allow registering a bike which is not present, but many won’t. I have to believe the same thing is true in Canada.

There may also be issues of insurance, safety or smog inspections, or similar. Again, you’ll want to look into requirements specific to your home province; it’s probably best not to take anyone’s word for anything until you see it in print on a government website.

You might consider registering it instead in the US state where it’s already registered—some states allow this to be done remotely, and some allow it to be done remotely by a non-resident. There are some threads here on the HUBB you can find with a site search which will start you on your way

Last, of course you’re not allowed to keep a foreign-registered bike in Europe indefinitely—that would constitute permanent importation, about which there are many, many rules and regulations. The reason I left this for last is that lots of people bend or break these rules, and most—but not all—get away with it. It’s definitely worth thinking about in terms of risk vs. consequence, and of course I’m not suggesting that you break any laws.

Hope that’s helpful.

Mark

I am also in a similar situation so will add the information I have and also ask a few questions. First I know there are threads dealing with non-resident registration for US plated bikes but am wondering if anyone knows the most current and trouble free options.

Personally, I was planning and am still considering WA. It used to be quite easy to do that. Apparently in the last couple of months they are now requiring a WA license now as part of the registration process. I asked about a Canadian who resides in WA, but wants to keep their Canadian DL, and was told it may be possible with rental agreement, or power bill etc.but it sounds like simple things like mail, or bank statements may not be sufficient. I have also heard this new rule may not always enforced, but would be good to get some info if anyone knows how things may have changed in this regard.

Vermont apparently has tightened their rules now and it is no longer possible. OR is quite similar to WA, except proving residency is easier as you can get a DL, with just a bank statement with your OR address, and an amazon or some other package with your name on it to the same address, and some form of hard ID like passport, birth certificate, etc. South Dakota seems to require a SIN number which is ok for Americans who are not residents of Dakota, but not possible for Canadians and I have found no work around. I have heard Texas is possible, and possibly AZ, and AK, but haven't followed up on the details.

Another thing to consider is whether online registration is possible, whether there are yearly inspections, and whether insurance is required for registration in the case of people using their vehicle outside of US for extended periods. guess Montana LLC is the only one I a currently aware of that seems to be for sure possible. Personally I will try my luck in WA, and if that does not work most likely will go with Montana, but it would be great to hear if anyone knows any other options or solutions...

As far as importing a foreign vehicle into Canada if it is plated in the US, there is a process for doing that and it's fairly straight forward. Anything newer than 2008 must be entered into the RIV system, which is basically a register of vehicles, and that costs $200, US customs clearance (which requires an appointment) is needed before entering the vehicle into Canada, and then duty must be paid to CBSA and provincial authorities. Then you go about trying to register the vehicle which will require further explanation. If the vehicle is older than 2008 it does not need RIV but still needs US customs clearance, and tax and duty paid on entry to Canada.

The obvious issue here is that if the bike is in Europe I imagine it would first need to go back to USA to get customs clearance and doing that without first having attained proper registration would likely be problematic. It is possible by presenting only the paperwork to US customs the clearance could be attained but I am not sure about that.

One other question about a possible simplified cheap solution for the multiple riders who find themselves in this or similar situations. Curious if anyone knows if a Montana LLC could be formed that would operate as an umbrella for multiple owners, each who could have their own vehicle registered in their name, but share the costs of the actual running of the LLC.

[markharf]

Originally Posted by Rognv

Oh dear Grant,
But that only one result which is not old (2022) is very negative about that ¨guy in Ireland¨ and unfortunally written by.................exactly, the original poster of this thread.

I do not see any other post on The HUBB written by the OP. Could you clarify, please? Thanks.

Mark

[RTW]

Originally Posted by Donna Robinson

I am Canadian and reside in Canada. I want to buy an American registered BMW in Germany. I have been riding over there for years but don’t know if I am allowed to purchase an American bike and keep it in Europe or how to re-register it and plate it with Canadian plates without the bike being over here. We would appreciate any advice. Donna Robinson….

I re-read this after posting and thought to add a a few things. First is it currently registered in your name in USA but physically in Europe or are you riding it informally unregistered, or still registered to previous owner? If it is in your name then shipping it first to the US and riding it to Canada and following the importation process while costly should be fairly straightforward. You would need to first confirm that it qualifies for RIV or if it is exempt. Vehicles over 15 years old can be imported into Canada more easily as they are not subject to an inspection which from my understanding is governed nationally by transport canada. The issue, is registering them provincially and insuring them. If it is a known standard model there are ways of doing this fairly easily, and it is even possible to enquire provincially in advance as to what the process is and what documents you can use to show that it was built as a street legal vehicle and can then be registered. If it was originally registered in the US that should actually be quite simple.

If anyone following the thread has more details on exactly what the rules and limitations for leaving a foreign registered vehicle in EU indefinitely and possibly selling it to other non-EU nationals and re-registering it that would also be very helpful to know. My understanding is that often the vehicles are not officially entered into any system and not given a TIP, and that individual countries do have rules about how long a vehicle can remain in their country without being imported, but that seems mostly to be concerned with nationals from other EU member states keeping there vehicles indefinitely and either not officially becoming residents themselves or becoming residents but not formalizing the status of their vehicle. As it pertains to US or Canadian registered vehicles it is unclear to me. Firstly I understand that this hinges more on the legal status of the person rather than the vehicle, and if someone leaves europe but their vehicle remains then they are in a grey area, and if they sell the vehicle to another person and that person re-registers it in a foreign jurisdiction in their own name it becomes fuzzier still. On one hand I suppose that is a way in which a vehicle can be effectively imported without ever complying to road safety measures or paying the relevant taxes, and in another way it seems to me that the interests and concerns of member states vs. the governing body of EU may just leave a gap.

[Rognv]

Originally Posted by markharf

I do not see any other post on The HUBB written by the OP. Could you clarify, please? Thanks.

Mark

HI Mark,


Here is the search result i was talking about:

https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/ts...on/nightmare-3

Best regards,

Rögnvaldur

[Rognv]

Originally Posted by RTW

If anyone following the thread has more details on exactly what the rules and limitations for leaving a foreign registered vehicle in EU indefinitely and possibly selling it to other non-EU nationals and re-registering it that would also be very helpful to know. My understanding is that often the vehicles are not officially entered into any system and not given a TIP, and that individual countries do have rules about how long a vehicle can remain in their country without being imported, but that seems mostly to be concerned with nationals from other EU member states keeping there vehicles indefinitely and either not officially becoming residents themselves or becoming residents but not formalizing the status of their vehicle. As it pertains to US or Canadian registered vehicles it is unclear to me. Firstly I understand that this hinges more on the legal status of the person rather than the vehicle, and if someone leaves europe but their vehicle remains then they are in a grey area, and if they sell the vehicle to another person and that person re-registers it in a foreign jurisdiction in their own name it becomes fuzzier still. On one hand I suppose that is a way in which a vehicle can be effectively imported without ever complying to road safety measures or paying the relevant taxes, and in another way it seems to me that the interests and concerns of member states vs. the governing body of EU may just leave a gap.

Hi RTW,

Each EU-country has their own rules about how long a vehicle can stay inside that country before either having to leave the country or getting imported. I think in most countries it´s 6 months.
With importing a vehicle it get´s registrated and plated and goes into the vehicle database. Importing vehicles is very expensive in each country i know of. I think there is one thing many travelers do not think about enough:
We are travelers; we travel and as such we have a privilege of being allowed to take our vehicle and other possessions into each foreign country without having to import it (and pay taxes). BUT....... as soon as we leave the country we are required to take the same vehicle and possession out of the country. As soon as we leave, and don´t take all the possessions we brought into the country with us, we have no right of the travelers privileges, in other words we are no longer travelers in that country. Then the basic laws and rules about import and export of goods take effect. These are customs regulations which we have to obey. That means officially importing it and paying taxes unless we put those possessions into a customs compound.

So although many people get away with leaving vehicles in another country I think it is not a grey area, it is plain offence of customs laws.

[Grant Johnson]

Originally Posted by Rognv

HI Mark,

Here is the search result i was talking about:

https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/ts...on/nightmare-3

Best regards,

Rögnvaldur

Thanks Rögnvaldur, that is VERY concerning, and I will be checking into it.

[wheatwhacker]

To answer a few of your questions.Buying an American or Canadian motorcycle here in Ireland is ok as long as your not pulled over by customs, ( not police)
They will ask for import documents in your own name along with other supporting documents.
In saying that, I have, and currently store motorcycles here, registered all over the world and nobody has been asked for any documentation.
It’s a grey area.
Also some states won’t let you transfer a title without the vehicle being physically in the country.


I have also heard of people packing a license plate in their suitcase along with a stick on VIN. Apparently it worked for them at border crossings. To each their own.


At the end of the day, it’s only a motorcycle.

[RTW]

If I have hijacked the thread, please advise as to whether continue to post here or start a fresh thread. I feel it would be good to have all this information posted clearly in one place as many people here could probably benefit

Right now what is most important to clarify for is regards formalities for import and export through Europe and what happens when crossing into and out of Schengen countries. As far as I understand the bike when it entered Europe did not receive a tip as the owner advised customs he would not be staying but would be leaving the country immediately. Since then it has been in various European countries, and had green card insurance, but no actual importation status. Can anyone confirm whether this is standard procedure, or an anomaly, and what generally happens when someone crosses out of and back into Euro zone, are they generally waved through, asked to present documentation but not registered or receive any paperwork, or sometimes receive a tip depending on the country or the whim of the customs officer?

Wheatwacker mentioned that in Ireland, the only people to be concerned about are customs officers and that in that case one would need to present the importation papers. Should I assume then that upon leaving UK, for Ireland Tips are generally made for all incoming vehicle with foreign plates, or would this be the paper that may have been originally given on first arrival after shipping or perhaps upon re-entry to Europe from example Morocco or Turkey, or perhaps Finland, Switzerland, etc.

My plan at the moment is to create a power of attorney in Europe when I purchase the bike and hopefully be able to use that to cross borders trouble free for my first trip, then return to Canada and leave the moto parked for a few months. I would first try and register in WA or if not possible look for any other convenient state without residency or yearly inspection requirements, and Montana LLC as a last resort.

While I am doing this or prior to completing (and more relevant to the OP's question) I will also follow up with CBSA in Canada and see if their is a way if one wanted to legally import the moto into Canada to do that with just a bill of sale and a title, directly to Canada from Europe rather than through US first. Of course that means the bike would have to be physically shipped to Canada.

I think the issue will be not being able to complete with the required US customs clearance form which must be filled before importing US plated vehicles into canada. It is maybe possible that this is just a VIN clearance that could be done just by sending them the paperwork. I suspect though that they need the bike to physically be presented to complete the form.If that is the case basically the bike would need to be repatriated before being imported into canada. Anyway, I will follow up on all those and post the results here on in whatever relevant thread seems appropriate.

[JMo (& piglet)]

The other party in this equation (the seller) has also asked the same question on the Horizon's Facebook group recently...

First of all, are you currently in Canada, or in Europe (Germany) wanting to buy this bike and continue your trip around Europe?

Either way, the question is - does the Canadian Provence you wish to register the bike in (ie. your home address) require the bike to be inspected prior to first registration after import, or will they do it via post? If they would want to inspect the bike prior to first registration, then the only thing you can do is fly/ship it back to Canada to complete the import/ownership paperwork, then fly/ship it back to Europe and continue your trip on what is now your own Canadian registered bike - which I suspect is not financially viable.

Practically speaking, the paperwork/ownership transferal would be the same as if you were buying a bike physically located/registered in the US, and importing it into Canada - the question regarding how long you're subsequently allowed to keep it in Europe is a separate issue.

Jx