It's all very well to say such things 'hard panniers broke my leg', however, when you consider the machinery they are covering (that spinning cheese-grater and amputation chain) then, being hurt by a box is going to be a better outcome than getting your leg/arm/head (I don't know have you seen how some folk crash!) stuck in the moving parts - isn't it ?

It's a balance of risk, correctly loaded, a metal pannier is not going to burst open in most cases, but the flipside is it has to be packed very firmly and therefore it can become heavy. On the other side soft luggage can be a complete liability if it is not packed correctly. It is, or can be lighter if you are riding certain terrain.

It all comes down to your own ability, assesment of the risks and where you are going.

Personally, I would preffer to come off a bike 10 time a day and be able to crawl from under it, that get pinned once. You can always rest if you wave the choice.

Then again you could argue that with soft luggage you are predisposed to have less accidents and therfore less likely to hurt yourself.

The point I'm tring to make it there are many factors that would cause you to choose your luggage - not least you ability to ride the bike and the level of safety equipment you wear.

I can't understand why this is such an emotive issue, in the end, just like your choice of bike, luggage is a choice of what best suits an individual

This thread reads to me like 'I take soft becasue it allows me to controll my weight', where 'hard luggage is more spacious and as we all know we expand to fill all available space' So it's not a case of hard v's soft, it's a case of heavy v's light.....

I used Alu panniers RTW last year and they were great until I crashed in Mongolia and ripped a lock out, meaning I had to strap the box back on with a ratchet strap, thereby losing the convenience and relative security. But I'd rather have that than a bag ripped open and all my stuff strewn about the place. I'd like to think they protected other parts of the bike from damage on several occasions when I dropped it, but that's also just speculation.

They were very convenient for packing, swallowed a lot of stuff, and gave me somewhere to put all my stickers including my world map with my route marked on it, which was a great conversation starter. It made me less nervous about having stuff pinched, too.

They also were very useful as a table, a chair, and a bike stand. And not much more expensive than quality, waterproof, secure, robust soft bags.

On the other hand....

Security wasn't as much of a problem as I'd feared, and I was either near the bike or took everything off anyway.

I'm not sure what I would leave out, but having that space available probably meant I took too much stuff. I suspect I wouldn't have crashed anyway if the front hadn't been so light, and I certainly wouldn't have had so much drama on the trans-siberian with a broken frame and snapped pannier rails if I hadn't been carrying all that weight.

But...

I still can't decide what I'll use on the next trip.

I'm thinking about something halfway - maybe smaller, lighter boxes, perhaps even plastic ones. And less stuff (still struggle with that - all the stuff I never used on the last trip, I still tell myself that if I don't take it I'll need it, same goes for the stuff I ditched at the side of the road in Siberia...)

Perhaps a small lockable topbox for security/convenience/stickers, though I'd be equally concerned about weight up high and out back like that.

And definitely always wear proper boots!

Makes me cringe when I see someone riding in flip-flops or walking boots.

I can't speak from any experience of having ridden on off-road conditions with hard luggage and crashing a lot, but my thoughts are thus:

I think there is a a clear logical argument that hard boxes (even with rounded/sloped edges) are going to increase the chances of injury when crashing. But my guess at how much extra risk this amounts to would not be enough to disuade me from riding with hard boxes if that's what I wanted to do.

Example: No-one posting in this thread has ever seriously hurt themselves from crashing because of their hard panniers. Doesn't mean that it wont happen, but I think it's fair to say it's not that common or likely.

There's lots of arguments for or against hard luggage but I think the increased risk of injury in the event of crashing is a minor one against them.


Last thought, since people have mentioned boots. I thoroughly agree that wearing big mx style boots will reduce the chances of hurting yourself when crashing. But I still choose to wear military style boots for all types of riding, even when trailriding in rocky derbyshire. I wouldn't choose to ride with hard luggage again, but I wouldn't let any safety concerns disuade from it if I wanted to, because I think the risk is insignificant. Riding motorcycles is a dangerous activity, if you want to be 100% safe then don't do it. It's all about assessing risks and balancing them against other factors.

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UK to Mongolia 2009, on a DR350

ffs...if your worried about hurting yourself....Dont ride bike's

there are 1000's of things that can hurt you when riding your bike...your luggage is way down the list.

Nevertheless, luggage is a major purchase. It's worth a bit of thought about the pros and cons before splashing out.

Excellent comments, very well balanced!

Ah, stickers! Now we're getting somewhere!

I have several sets of soft bags, most bought for $50 to $100US for the pair. Craig's List/Ebay good for this. Even older Givi plastic bags are quite expensive, usually over $200, for older 2nd hand pair, now add cost of the racks. The Alu panniers I've seen range from about $450 up to $1400 usd or so. Probably cheaper used. BMW and KTM factory ones are lighter but pretty expensive and dent pretty easy.

I struggle with over packing and hard bags means I for sure will end up with more junk than I need. Soft bags limit what you can carry, forces you to be more efficient/creative. Quite a challenge really.

The benefits of the bike riding SO MUCH better in sand & tough off road conditions is priceless, IMHO. Having dealt with serious injuries in remote places, I remain a fan of letting the bike be the best it can be off road. This at least gives the rider a fair chance making it through with fewer, less serious injuries. Also, with soft bags you have less chance of cracking a mounting rack on your hard bags, this, one of the most common mishaps. Riding thousands of miles of washboard has yet to bring any damage to my bikes frame, sub frame or soft bag racks.

I have left a lot of stuff behind in hotels or given to local friends, shop mechanics. Makes it better for the next rider coming along. Really hard to trim down the load. As time goes by on the road, gets easier.

I think most travelers don't weigh up all their stuff and rarely weigh their luggage alone, empty. Pretty amazing what a set of Ally panniers weigh, now add on the steel racks, steel (or Ally) brace pieces, nuts and bolts.

It's likely to add up to MORE than clothing & gear combined. Certainly a strong case for soft bags. Going from hard to soft I lost about 20 kgs. and best of all you could really feel this difference riding the bike in dirt.

Perhaps the big twins handle the big loads better? Seems extra weight does not have such a negative effect on handling on a 600 lbs.(272 kgs.) bike? On a lightweight single it really does have a bad effect, in my experience.

Well.... for me it's because it takes me back to when I was looking into luggage for overlanding. I was told over and over to get Metal Mules or equivalent as they were surely "The only way" etc etc etc and I would be a fool to take anything less. Maybe I just got unlucky with replies or timing.. Who knows !!

Well, I spent the best part of £900 on my Aluminium luggage. That was
15 % of my budget.

I only rant on so much about it because there are a lot of new riders who will potentially blow a large chunk of their travel funds on something that is maybe inappropiate and also and more importantly, adding to the danger and weight to a probable "novice" offroad rider. It doesnt matter how much of a fantastic road rider you are (I've done motard racing and spent 10 years on silly sports bikes), it's a COMPLETELY different bag of tricks.

I just hope most are more savy than I was when it comes to spending money on luggage and prep.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Fine. You were told the same story over and over again, and time has told that it was not right for you. But the way you say it implies that hard luggage is simply not the way to go, full stop. And that just is not arbitrarily the case....

Again, you can feel entitled to rant given you spent money you later found that did not provide you with what you needed.

However, again, it is a stretch to say buying hard luggage is adding to danger, even if it does add to weight. You had a bad experience, so did someone else you spoke to. That only proves that in your "off" you got caught by a pannier. Not that panniers are an inherent danger....

As I suggested earlier, it is just as feasible that someone could crash without panniers, get injured by part of their bike, which would not have touched them had they had hard luggage... Like me.... I reckon I'd have a footpeg shaped scar on my left calf muscle were it not for hard luggage...

Additionally, as pointed out earlier, there are plenty of people with lots of experience of off-roading, fully loaded, that have had no such issues such as you described.

The only savvy one can wish on others is that, once they have the information they can choose the best kit for them hard or soft, rather than what peer pressure demands....

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Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Aye men !!!

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

OK, but it's important to remember that "more dangerous" does not equal "dangerous", the same way "taller" does not mean "tall"....and it felt to me that this was where the general message was headed.

After all it's all relative: Had my old GS had soft luggage, it still would have been heavier than a DR650 with hard cases.

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)