Forced to leave a bike in south america - via accident. any experience?

[sweeeet]

hi there
i am non south american and planning on riding south america (each country) shortly on a colombian purchased motorbike and then selling it back in colombia at the end of the trip. i have read about various 3rd party insurances etc that can likely be bought at borders etc... however, does anyone have any insight on what happens in the event of an accident and it is not practical to leave the country with the bike you came in on (in my case any country that is not colombia). e.g bike is deemed unrepairable (a write off), or the rider cant ride the bike (broken arm etc) so a situation where the bike ends the travel but i could carry on using public transport and continue with overland crossings. getting money for the written off bike not the immediate priority - priority is to continue travelling... would it be a matter of going to the local police station with passport, explaining situation and somehow getting the bike de-registered from the passport? but this may not be proof enough when actually exiting the country. i havent stated a specific country as this is more a 'may happen' scenario. anyone know a most likely process for this?
much appeciated...
Sweeeeeet
87% of all statistics are made up..

[Snakeboy]

But is there any country that connects your bike with your passport?

[ta-rider]

The german plated BMW got confiscated in Ecuador after my friend had to fly home for helth reasons and the bike stayed to long in the country. The customs charges 300 Dollars per day or so for storing the bike so now they want 30.000 Dollars to return the bike and not putting my friend into jail if he would ever return to Ecuador...

[mollydog]

Sorry, I do not know which countries attach your bike to your passport. Years ago, none did this. Now? Dunno. I believe it's still the case that most DO NOT link your bike to your passport. SO ... you can leave the country without your bike if you must.

Sometimes local govt. make it so difficult to get legal permiso to UN DO your TVIP or leave your bike, that some say, "forget it" and just walk away, leaving the bike behind.

The insurance coverage questions are for the insurance companies and IMO, some are simply criminal enterprises with official designation. Will they pay? Dunno. Some do, some don't.

But as you know, most countries require you to buy insurance before you are allowed entry with bike. Does this mean insurance co. will pay a legit claim? Dunno. Don't get your hopes up.

Everyone has stories, so read up on as many as you can to find direction on this. Try to find locals in Columbia who know more about this ... see what they say.
Surly Colombian riders/drivers must cross into other countries ... do what they do. This true especially with commercial truck drivers.

Your questions are ALL good questions ... and should be made CLEAR if you are buying insurance. If they won't pay ... why bother getting it in first place?

Insurance companies will nearly always try to find a way to NOT PAY, using both legit and illegitimate justifications.

Seems to me, in just about every case you would need a good, local lawyer to represent you if you have an accident. A good lawyer will know how to deal with insurance company, the police and maybe even Aduana.

[ta-rider]

Originally Posted by mollydog

But as you know, most countries require you to buy insurance before you are allowed entry with bike. Does this mean insurance co. will pay a legit claim? Dunno. Don't get your hopes up.
Insurance companies will nearly always try to find a way to NOT PAY, using both legit and illegitimate justifications.

Thats so true: As a foreighner you will have to pay for any damage cache right away if you dont want to end up in jail. Then back home you can try to get your money back from a Insurance company in a third world country faaaar away. Most of them are not any better then photoshop documents HAHA...

[Snakeboy]

Originally Posted by ta-rider

The german plated BMW got confiscated in Ecuador after my friend had to fly home for helth reasons and the bike stayed to long in the country. The customs charges 300 Dollars per day or so for storing the bike so now they want 30.000 Dollars to return the bike and not putting my friend into jail if he would ever return to Ecuador...

What TS basically asks about if you can leave a country without the vehicle you entered the country with. Not anything about overstay. I dont know of any country that connects your passport with your vehicle, but there might be a few. Chile does have it mentioned on the entrance slip.

I left Chile with my bike in the country, no problem even with it mentioned on the entrance slip. They didnt even look at the slip, just collected it. And for Australia for example I was told it was illegal to fly out while my bike was in the country. I didnt belive it so I contacted the right authorities in Australia and explained my matter (I wanted to fly home for christmas and new year as I havent seen family and friends for 1,5 years) they answered me and said of course you can. Just email us a few details as when are you leaving, coming back and where will the bike be stored. No problem at all...

But the main question is - does any country link your passport to your vehicle?

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by Snakeboy

But the main question is - does any country link your passport to your vehicle?

Yea, I'd like to know this as well! Surly with all the Latin America experts here, someone would know??

Xfiltrate? Where are you man!

[xfiltrate]

The question of the legality of a foreign tourist, entering a South American country with a tourist visa, on a foreign plated motorcycle with a TVIP (Temporary Vehicle Import Permit) and then leaving the motorcycle in the country when the foreign tourist exits might vary from country to country.

The question of enforcement is unpredictable.

I will need a few days to do a proper study and will publish the results here.
I will look at motorcycles with current TVIPs that will be exited from the country prior to the expiration of the TVIP.
We can assume that leaving the country on a motorcycle with an expired TVIP will be problematic.

Speaking from personal experience Argentina does not enforce any laws regulating a foreign tourist leaving a foreign plated motorcycle with a valid TVIP in Argentina, while the foreign tourist exits Argentina. But, the motorcycle must be exited by the foreign tourist prior to the expiration of the TVIP.

To wit: Argentine tourist visas are generally issued for three months, but Argentine TVIPs are issued for as many as eight months.
Logic dictates that the foreign tourist will exit and return to Argentina prior to the expiration of any TVIP issued for more than three months.

Note: If the foreign plated motorcycle is involved in an accident while the foreign tourist is out of the country, the foreign tourist will still be held responsible for damages.

Again, from personal experience rosa del desierto and I left our Argentine plated motorcycles in Colombia only after contacting the Colombian DIAN (customs) and jumping through a series of hoops that included - documenting the injury that necessitated our leaving the bikes behind, photographing the bikes and the "storage" where they will be parked, identifying and providing a photograph of the Colombian who was responsible for storing the bikes, having a *specialized paper etching made of the serial numbers of the bikes and signing a document of responsibility for the bikes.
This process took more than a week and required a medical doctor's signature verifying rosa's injury plus a frustrating wait for authorization from the DIAN.

*the Spanish word for the etching is "impronta," I think.

For all other South American countries, I will to do the research and report what I find here as I find it. This could take a while.

Thanks for the question, sorry I can't be more helpful at this time.

xfiltrate

[sweeeet]

Xfiltrate (and others) - thanks for the input thus far. Yep - not worried about the insurance $$ claim side of it, and doesnt involve me personally overstaying in a country.. just purely the logistical process of leaving a bike (potentialy abandoned) in a country, exiting that country via overland border crossing (and potentially never returning again). could be scenario where bike is a mechanical write off, or bike keeps breaking down breaking down breaking down that makes the trip a pain in the butt, or i get a broken leg hiking, or it just gets too damn cold to continue riding the bike and i wimp out of the journey (by bike at least).. thanks a lot sweeeeet

[mollydog]

Yea, simple request.
But don't discount greed and corruption. Now add in just how little most Aduana officials are paid ... and the opportunity for them to extract a "small fee" for themselves and clog the system with "make work" ridiculous paperwork. So, so inefficient!

Ideally, One should be able to show up at Aduana office, border or other Govt. office and simply hand over your TVIP, your title and be done. The state gets a free bike. They can now either store it, sell it off or crush it.
(In California ... the state PAYS YOU $1000 for retiring an old car.)

The main thing Latin govts are trying to do is collect TAX on the sale or importation of any foreign vehicle.

Imported Cars and bikes are taxed anywhere from 100% up to 400%. This is why cars/bikes are SO bloddy expensive in Latin America.

Outrageous taxes, no? So ... you would think these same Govts would make it VERY easy for a foreigner (or anyone else) to "donate" their bike. But corrupt officials get in the way ... and add LOADS of paperwork and fees all along the way.

I'm surprised Xfiltrate could not answer one of our main questions here:
Which countries stamp your bike Info into your passport, thus linking YOU and your BIKE together and meaning BOTH must travel together.

As of now, looks like NO Latin States do this ... but as said earlier, not sure!

[chris]

Originally Posted by mollydog

I'm surprised Xfiltrate could not answer one of our main questions here:
Which countries stamp your bike Info into your passport, thus linking YOU and your BIKE together and meaning BOTH must travel together.

As of now, looks like NO Latin States do this ... but as said earlier, not sure!

I recently rode 20k miles around South America in every country with the exception of Venezuela and the Guyanas and in none of them was my motorcycle ever mentioned in my passport.

Passport is immigration. Vehicle is customs. In South America in my recent experience, the twain have yet to meet. It won't however stop random chit chat getting in the way of facts.

[markharf]

During my last Latin America trip 6 years ago, the countries which stamped vehicle information in my passport were Honduras and Venezuela.

I'll add the obvious: just because it's not in a passport doesn't mean the information isn't linked to a TIP. Most countries allow departure in the absence of your vehicle, and most don't appear to cross-reference when they do so. That doesn't mean they're incapable, should they see a reason.

Mark

[memo-p]

Honduras uses a full page of your passport for your bike info. And a new stamp for every entry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snakeboy]

Originally Posted by memo-p

Honduras uses a full page of your passport for your bike info. And a new stamp for every entry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok - thanks for the info, good to know.

The next question will then be: Will they deny you to exit the country if for example your vehicle is ruined beyond repairable or if you need to fly home for a family medical emergency or similar issues?

[xfiltrate]

Markharf makes an excellent point when he states that more information than appears in one's passport entry stamp might be obtained at borders.

Example: with a computer stroke a border official might indicate that you have entered with a motorcyle, and this might not be reflected by the entry stamp in your passport.

My preliminary research consisted of pulling out my many passports and examining entry stamps for South American countries. And, doing a cursory internet search...

Many of the entry stamps in my passports had a bird or airplane symbol plus several other symbols within the entry stamp that I could not decipher. These symbols might indicate if you have entered by air or with a vehicle.

An interesting question might be this: Can the number on your touris visa be cross referenced with TVIPs to determine if you entered the country with a vehicle?

Peru...

My passport entry stamps for Peru do not indicate that I entered by motorcycle.

Here is what I found on the internet: Overland Peru Travel - WikiOverland :

"Storing a vehicle and temporarily leaving the country[edit]

The temporary import permit can be "suspended" indefinitely while you leave the country. One person explains their experience as follows:
It's possible to store vehicles in Cusco at La Quinta Camping. The process is as follows, get to the Duana downtown (Cusco) apply for a suspension, the customs and/or Policia Nacional will come to the campground to make sure the vehicle is there. Milagros the manager of the campground will sign a paper that the vehicle will not get moved for the period of time you apply for the importacion temporal being suspended. That's it. You'll fly or bus from Cusco to Lima and off you go. As I understood from them the process took about 48 hours to be completed.
Storage at La Quinta is S/.12.00 PEN for 24 hours.
This is possible anywhere in Peru and works as follows:
1) You enter the country with your vehicle and get an importation permit of 90 days for it.
2) You go to the local "aduana" (SUNAT) and ask for the permission to leave the country without your vehicle. You will need to give them the address of the place where you leave it and probably a declaration of the owner of that place saying that the vehicle will not be (re-)moved (see above).
3) You can then leave the country without it, BUT you will still need to drive it out of Peru before the 90 days of temporary importation expire.
4) If you want to leave the country for a longer period (no limit in the peruvian law) you have to suspend your Temporary import:
find a save place
go to nearest police office
let the police make an official declaration "car will not move" signed by the owner of the save place
go to banco national and pay 7,9 sol
go to police to collect declaration
go to Sunat aduana let them send your application to borderpost where you entered the country (with a lot of copy's of all your paperwork)
leave the country and wait for email to confirm your suspension
on return go to Sunat with an application de levante de suspension and without your car
Sunat might control the car is still on the same place
Sunat gives a new entry form indicating the number of days that are left to leave the country
For the legal regulations see :: SUNAT :: as well as http://www.sunat.gob.pe/legislacion/...inta-pg.16.htm (in Spanish).
Also see How to suspend a vehicle permit in Lima, Peru for a first-hand write-up of how it's done from December 2013; and [url=http://nonurbia.com/project/suspending-the-car-permit-in-peru/]NONURBIA

Brazil

None of my multiple entry stamps for Brazil indicated that I was entering with a motorcycle. The TVIP requirement for Brazil is not enforced at some borders, but without a TVIP you could be in for a hard time if you are involved in an accident or stopped by the police. The law still requires foreign tourist vehicles to be issued a TVIP upon entering Brazil

Still working this issue
xfiltrate