RTW costs and timming with an F700GS?

[Luiggi]

Hi guys,

Have been dreaming of leaving home to ride my motorcycle for a few years, and now that I have quite some savings I am starting to plan more seriously my RTW to be done in the beggining of spring 2019.

Currently I have around 12k€ saved and my calculations are that I should probably be saving around twice as much to do the route I want to complete which can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g3...BF&usp=sharing


What do you think? Is 25-27k€ correct or should I overbudget more?

Also I have timed around 300 days to complete the full route, which to me looks somewhat kind of short.


Would you change something about the route as well?

Any info or tips would be hugely appreciated!

[AnTyx]

Start out with definite fixed costs.

1) Intercontinental shipping - at the absolute best figure 2k euros for Europe to North America, as much again if not more for Singapore-Alaska (assuming it's container shipping? Where will you wait for the boat to arrive? Both Singapore and Alaska are expensive places to just hang out.)

2) You will probably need a carnet du passage, that's ~3-5k euros tied up in the deposit. Sure you will get that back at the end, but for now you still need to take that chunk out of your ready cash.

3) Going through China even once (with guides) will be in the thousands too.

Some notes on your route, from one who has not been RTW himself but has done some thinking about it...

1) The Dalton Highway to the top of Alaska - from everything I have heard about it, it's a long and difficult, expensive and not necessarily enjoyable or always beautiful slog, for the bragging rights of saying you've ridden as far north as possible. Since you're in Europe anyway, why not ride to Nordkapp instead? It's as far north or more, and the road up there is either beautiful (all-Norway), or fast and easy (mostly-Finland or mostly-Sweden).

1.5) Alternatively, if you want to ride to the north of North America, consider the Inuvik-Tuktoyaktuk road, recently completed for year-round use - sounds a lot more pleasant than dodging oil-equipment trucks all day...

2) Have you researched permits to get into Bhutan? From what I know, they are not very overlander-friendly, or tourist-friendly in general.

3) You've also got two separate entrances into China, both of which will be big expenses - and I'm not sure it will be easy at all to find a tour company to run you from the Bhutan border out to the Vietnam border...

4) Getting into Thailand with your own vehicle will be very difficult, they seem to have changed the rules to be as bad as China. (But, to be fair, Thailand's rules change often.)

[AnTyx]

Honestly, I think if that's the route you want, I would separate it into 2,5 parts... take your own bike and do Europe/Balkans/Turkey/Central Asia and back through Russia (no carnet if you don't go into Iran).

Then fly to North America, buy a bike locally, do the US/Canada.

Then fly to Vietnam, get a bike locally and ride around. Sell it, go to Thailand, do the same. Take an AirAsia flight to Nepal, same thing. See if you can get into Bhutan.

Tibet would be cool on a bike, but if you are desperate to see Western China, well, the public transport there (trains/flights/buses) is quite common and getting in on a tourist visa without a vehicle is simple.

[GenXrider]

Originally Posted by Luiggi

Hi guys,

Have been dreaming of leaving home to ride my motorcycle for a few years, and now that I have quite some savings I am starting to plan more seriously my RTW to be done in the beggining of spring 2019.

Currently I have around 12k€ saved and my calculations are that I should probably be saving around twice as much to do the route I want to complete which can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g3...BF&usp=sharing


What do you think? Is 25-27k€ correct or should I overbudget more?

Also I have timed around 300 days to complete the full route, which to me looks somewhat kind of short.


Would you change something about the route as well?

Any info or tips would be hugely appreciated!

You are missing South America, sad. Some of the best riding on the planet.

As has been posted, I would buy a bike in the USA and Asia if you are a little tight on funds. Lot less hassle!

[Luiggi]

Thanks a lot for the input! I'll reply to each one of the comments.

Originally Posted by AnTyx

Start out with definite fixed costs.

1) Intercontinental shipping - at the absolute best figure 2k euros for Europe to North America, as much again if not more for Singapore-Alaska (assuming it's container shipping? Where will you wait for the boat to arrive? Both Singapore and Alaska are expensive places to just hang out.)

2) You will probably need a carnet du passage, that's ~3-5k euros tied up in the deposit. Sure you will get that back at the end, but for now you still need to take that chunk out of your ready cash.

3) Going through China even once (with guides) will be in the thousands too.

Some notes on your route, from one who has not been RTW himself but has done some thinking about it...

1) The Dalton Highway to the top of Alaska - from everything I have heard about it, it's a long and difficult, expensive and not necessarily enjoyable or always beautiful slog, for the bragging rights of saying you've ridden as far north as possible. Since you're in Europe anyway, why not ride to Nordkapp instead? It's as far north or more, and the road up there is either beautiful (all-Norway), or fast and easy (mostly-Finland or mostly-Sweden).

1.5) Alternatively, if you want to ride to the north of North America, consider the Inuvik-Tuktoyaktuk road, recently completed for year-round use - sounds a lot more pleasant than dodging oil-equipment trucks all day...

2) Have you researched permits to get into Bhutan? From what I know, they are not very overlander-friendly, or tourist-friendly in general.

3) You've also got two separate entrances into China, both of which will be big expenses - and I'm not sure it will be easy at all to find a tour company to run you from the Bhutan border out to the Vietnam border...

4) Getting into Thailand with your own vehicle will be very difficult, they seem to have changed the rules to be as bad as China. (But, to be fair, Thailand's rules change often.)

1) That's what I am more doubting about. In fact I think south-east Asia is the part which I am least interested in seeing so I might change the route to see more of Nepal or even India and then move to America to keep up with the route but not sure yet.

2) The carnet du passage I had already taken into account for the 20-25k I was assuming as a "lost" investment since until the return I would not have them available.

3) China and specially the Kasgar to Tibet route is one of the parts which I am most looking forward to seeing, thus I would not mind having to pay for the guides. But I have read quit a ton about riders meeting at the border and sharing costs, right?

-----


1) Dalton highway I totally agree, I am not completely sure about doing it but I'd love to set my route to Alaska and downwards to New York through the TAT. I might change the flight or shipping to seattle/vancouver or even california if that would make it cheaper, and thus get a chance to ride some of the pacific coast as well. Would that be a better option? The Nordkapp option was on the route at first, but camping, food and fuel are superexpensive with the NOK... Don't you think? I have been to Norway before and it is by far more beautiful and awesome than any other European country in my opinion, but cheap its not one of its qualities.


1.5) Will take a look! Have never heard of it.


2) My bad, not yet....

3) Also agree. If in the end I plan to do China (to Lhasa) - Nepal - India that would be solved and officers would not mind getting in-out-in again. And the guide costs would be saved too...

4) Will make a thought about going to south-east Asia. Is it really worth it comparable to India or more time in Nepal-Tibet?


What do you think about timmings? Around a year is ok?

[Luiggi]

Originally Posted by robdr1

You are missing South America, sad. Some of the best riding on the planet.

As has been posted, I would buy a bike in the USA and Asia if you are a little tight on funds. Lot less hassle!

Is 20-25k€ tight on budget? Might take a thought or two on the South-East Asia route as in order of priority my favourite parts would be:
1) Iran to Nepal
2) Trans American Trail & Canada
3) Spain to Turkey
4) Lhasa to Singapore

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by Luiggi

The Nordkapp option was on the route at first, but camping, food and fuel are superexpensive with the NOK... Don't you think? I have been to Norway before and it is by far more beautiful and awesome than any other European country in my opinion, but cheap its not one of its qualities.

A lot of things in Norway are very expensive, but if you are careful, you can get by on a reasonable budget. It will never be cheap, but... fuel - yes, expensive, but motorcycles get good mileage. Food - restaurants are expensive, but supermarket food is more or less okay. Camping - it really depends, remember that Norway allows wild camping, and often they have options like hytte. Sometimes it's very cheap... I got a private room with my own toilet and shower in Lillehammer for 30 euros!

So yes, Norway is expensive, but IMO worth it. (The Dalton Highway is expensive too!)

Originally Posted by Luiggi

China and specially the Kasgar to Tibet route is one of the parts which I am most looking forward to seeing, thus I would not mind having to pay for the guides. But I have read quit a ton about riders meeting at the border and sharing costs, right?

Yes, that's an option. But... I've traveled on public transport in Western China, specifically Yunnan, which is the area that is naturally beautiful AND was never politically important (so the historical stuff was not so destroyed in wars). I think you will find that the restrictive travel you have to do there, especially with guides (whose purpose is to make sure you don't go off the prescribed route), might cancel out the beauty of the scenery. Besides which, China is very homogenous. You see one Chinese village, you've pretty much seen them all.

I'd say if you want that kind of experience, you will get it in the Stans and Mongolia. Where your only restriction is the length of your border entry stamp.

[Adventurism]

In the end it all really depends what the goal of your trip is, a lot of riding, off road riding? Or more seeing amazing places and using the motorcycle as the vehicle.

If riding offroad was one of your priorities, then you are missing out on Georgia, Armenia and Tajikistan for example.

You plan to ride through Tibet, I hope you are also prepared to pull out the wallet. I've hear tours cost $4000 for two weeks. Yes, you can form groups but they are preplanned, and teaming up and getting the paperwork done costs you around 3 months. You can always travel via Pakistan, its a great experience.

Riding in Buthan will also come with a tourist organization and the visa is $250 per day. There is no possibility to cross the border into China again.

Both Vietnam, Myanmar and Thailand require a guide at the moment too. Vietnam and Thailand are possible to get in without but takes a lot of effort and Thailand is only possible from the east. If you come from Myanmar, no way of crossing the border without a guide. Also no way of getting into Myanmar without a guide. Riding wise only North of Thailand is a lot of fun. The rest is touristy very interesting, but off road riding wise not very impressive.

Also consider flying out of Kathmandu. Heard many good stories. Otherwise, consider shipping out of Port Klang (Kuala Lumpur Malaysia). Will be much easier then getting into Singapore and more affordable so hang around Malaysia then Singapore.

[Luiggi]

Thanks again for the replies!

I have changed quite a bit the routes in order to fit the restrictions of China and others. Option A would be to quit China and go through Myanmar and B take China from the Nepal border which might be easier to find companions I guess. And would save the fact of double entering to China.

You can find it here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g3...BF&usp=sharing

My goal is not to do much offroad in those areas. I mainly want to camp, take photographs (I am a photographer as well) and connect with each local areas, specially in the Himalayan range.


As of the timming I am planning on around 500 days of travelling and around 21k in travelling costs only including fuel, food, lodging and guiding costs, no visas, carte du passage, fregith/flights tourism or other added costs. Totally I expect around 30k at most with everything included. Do you think that would be suitable? Too low budget? Too fast?

[ta-rider]

Originally Posted by Luiggi

What do you think? Is 25-27k€ correct or should I overbudget more?

Also I have timed around 300 days to complete the full route, which to me looks somewhat kind of short.

Riding a motorbike can be so cheap. Just a little bit of petrol. Wild camping is free and food beside the road not worth mentioning.

What makes it expensive is shiping Bikes around the world and importing Spare Parts. Rather buy differnt bikes on different continents and ride the same bike the locals do. Then all parts are available if needet and you dont look and will be treated as money on legs.

Its not a good advice to ride BMW bikes: Taking the Road South: Day 136 (0km): Stoppable.

For Iran you will need a Carned de passage.

Importing a bike into Thailand is becoming very expensive too. Better rent bikes in Southeast Asia and India.

Crossing Burma you will need a expensive Guide. Same for China.

300 days is waaaaay to short. Africa alone took me two years http://afrikamotorrad.de/index.php?r...en_transafrika

Talking about Africa and South America: The way you planed your route you will miss the moast interesding places of the world: South America and Afrika. Only you can say you have done rtw...

http://motorradtouren-suedamerika.de...en_suedamerika

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by Luiggi

You can find it here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g3...BF&usp=sharing

Some thoughts on your route, again, since you have made it so convenient to follow

1) Your path through the South of France has merit for sure, but why not follow the Riviera roads towards Monaco (as you are a photographer) and then take the Route des Grandes Alpes up?

2) You are missing the best parts of Switzerland by only following the Rhone valley. If you are spending money on a Swiss vignette, you owe it to yourself to do the Grimsel-Furka-Susten triangle (or, well, at least two sides of it if you are not doubling back).

3) Go to Liechtenstein. For the bragging rights. You can stay in Feldkirch across the border for cheap (15 euros, safe parking, s are a euro each from hostel reception around the clock).

4) I see you are going to Schwangau. I made the same mistake. But east of there, you are missing the Grossglockner (between Zell am See and Lienz), and it's really worth it, especially if you get there after 6pm on Sunday when it's cheap and there is no other traffic.

5) Vienna and Budapest are cool, but you will have a better experience on a separate trip, take a cheap flight and spend a few days in the cities. Between them, there are cheap buses running multiple times a day.

Personally for me, going south from the Grossglockner, into the Italian Dolomites and onto the Vrsic Pass in Slovenia was possibly the best part of my ride around Europe.

6) Riding down the Croatian coast is a great idea (I would stop in Zadar as well), but I would suggest also including Montenegro, then cutting across Serbia and into Romania. That would let you do the Transfagarasan south-to-north, after which you can go to Brasov and Bran Castle (stop by Turda for the salt mine if you are in the mood for a detour) before going down to Bucharest.

That's all I have on Europe. Further on, and only very intermittently based on personal experience:

7) East of Antalya, you're following the parts of Turkey that are likely to be having a bad time due to being close to the war. Consider swinging through the center to the north coast from there (pro tip: Ankara, the capital, might be a great place to stop and get your onward visas sorted!).

8) Like others said, definitely go into Georgia. One of the most hospitable and beautiful places on Earth.

9) Your desire to include Iran is understandable, but just have a thought that you can take a ferry from Baku instead, to Aktau (less closed country) or Turkmenbashi (awkward visa-wise).

10) You are planning to go from Wakhan into Afghanistan proper and over the border into Pakistan - these are the restless areas, a foreign traveller is likely to get hassled a lot there. I would say, either do Pamir/Wakhan returning into Tajikistan and cross into China from the northwest - find a tour that takes you into Tibet from there, so you do your one expensive entry and skip the difficult areas in the Stans - or do what most people seem to do, go via Iran to Pakistan and from there into India.

11) Actually if you find a tour that takes you from Kashgar through Tibet into Kunming and from there to Laos, you also get to enter Thailand from the east (Laos or Cambodia), which everyone says is easier...

12) It may be worthwhile to send your bike by sea from Singapore/Jakarta to North America while you take a flight to Auckland and buy/rent a bike locally while traveling around. (I paid less than 700 euros for 8 days on a CB500X including renting full gear!) NZ is definitely worth visiting, and the South Island is definitely worth riding a bike around, but the shipping cost and biosecurity requirements make bringing your own bike into the country a huge pain, which you can avoid for sure.

13) In the US, do not miss Death Valley. Also, on the California-Oregon border, stop in the town of Ashland - it's very friendly and they have a permanent Shakespeare theater festival running there, they even built a replica of the Globe Theatre, and you can get last-minute tickets for cheap! Also, Portland is very much worth stopping for a few days, and so is Seattle.

14) I guess you're following the Trans-America Trail east. Personally my bucket list would include South Dakota and the stupid presidents' faces mountain and also New Orleans. I also really loved Savannah, and it's a major port.

15) The idea of shipping out of New York makes obvious sense, but personally I would go up through New England and into Quebec. Montreal, the Eastern Townships, Quebec City, these were all wonderful places for me to visit, and you can air-freight back to Europe from Montreal to Air Canada using their great deals.

[hellotimmutton]

why skip australia? if youre going to NZ anyway its on the way