URGENT HELP - Agadir land rover Mechanics

[EdoubleD]

I'm curently in Agadir, my 1998 R reg discovery 300tdi has developed transmission porblems. I managed to get it to a land rover dealers service garage but as I don't speak French the language barrier is proving really difficult. After a test drive with a mechanic they've removed the propshaft and drained some oil. They then told me that they had to go to lunch for a couple of hours so I'm sat over the road in an internet cafe. Currently the car is in bits and to be honest I'm panicing, before getting to the garage the car was driveable but now it's not. They are a main dealer which gives me some hope but I'm pretty on edge about the whole thing.

Is there anyone reading this who is in Agadir who speaks good french or knows an english speaking mechanic? Or can point me in the direction of an interepter?

Any help would be so gratefully received as I'm 10 days into a 2 month voyage which looks to be cut pretty short as I'm wondering if I'm going to have to ship the vehicle back to the UK at this point.

[TheWarden]

Don't panic you will get back on the road and Agadir isn't a bad place to be for repairs (its a horrible town but well set up with repair places)

As a toyota driver I can't help with specifics but ask around for an english speaker to translate - maybe at the internet cafe? that will help with the language barrier and help get a clearer understanding of whats wrong.

I have details of a turbo repair place and the owner speaks good english but I don't have contact details with me at the moment to pass on. I have posted them here somewhere.

There are also big scrap yards just outside town for spare parts.

Gee (Thimba on here) who is doing a round Africa trip had transmission problems in Casablance and got repaired ok might be worth contacting him for another source of information.

[TheWarden]

Details of the Turbo place, Aziz may be able to put you in contact with a translator/ land rover mechanic

Aziz Aboudhak
www.turbo-motors.net
GPS N30 25.247 W -9 34.117
gsm 06 61231904
52 Av El Hansali
El Khaim
Agadir

[EdoubleD]

Thanks for the reassurance, I did see lots of scrap places on my way to Tiznit which is where I decided to turn back knowing there was a main dealer in Agadir.

I guess more will be revealed after lunch when I go back.....

[Peter Girling]

What's the problem with the transmission?

Peter

[EdoubleD]

There has always been a bit of a clunk when changing gear which I've been told by the mechanic (who recently did a lot of work on it in the Uk) was nothing to worry about, there is a bit of play in the front prop shaft if you turn it, usual for a disco of this age. However, there now seems to be a metalic rattling and sporadic deep crunching noise, this tends to happen when changing gear but is fine when the car is under drive especially in the higher gears. I thought it might be the UJ's but these seem fine with no play. This occasionally turns into a metal on metal vibration noise which seems to be coming from the centre of the car. The sound seems as though it;s traveling down a propshaft but obviously it's hard to explain a noise from a car on a forum post!

I was just about to head down to Western Sahara when the problems arose. Knowing there was a land rover main dealer in Agadir I turned round and headed there. After a test drive with the mechanic they've double checked the Uj's and taken of the front prop shaft, after moving it a bit with the diff lock on (without front prop shaft) they drained the oil from the gear box and went to lunch. The language barrier is very difficult. They've come back from lunch and decided that it's the transfer box and it needs a new one. they also can't source the part...saying all that however I think they have misdiagnosed the play in the gears for the actual problem. They also removed the spline from the bottom of the shaft and couldn't work out why it didn't go back it, I managed to stop them from hammering it in and vaguely managed to explain that it only goes in one specific way, (they hadn't marked it) I fixed this myself in their workshop using a clamp by trial and error marking it so I knew where i was then turning through each of the splines/rings until it slid in nicley....as you can imagine I'm not exactly filled with confidence...they are a main dealer with a service shop but they only had brand new cars in there and were mostly seeming to change brake pads etc

I'm now having dinner having paid 600dh for them to look at what I already knew and checked through myself. Really at this point I need someone with experience of older rovers and who speaks pretty good english. I can;t really risk heading further south only for the problem to get worse and me further from home. Of course these sounds could just be the play getting a bit worse and in reality nothing to worry to much about assuming I'm very careful changing gear.

At this point I'm really trying to work out my options unless by some stroke of luck someone through here or landy forum comes to my resuce with some help. I gues limping it home in a vain hope it makes it is m best option. Very gutting as I was really hoping to make Senegal.

[TheWarden]

January, 2014 | Travels with Thimba

Link to Gee's blog where he mentions some of his gearbox troubles in Morocco. He got a gearbox shipped in from the UK so may have some contacts who could help.

Otherwise all I can think of is the garages in Zagora who see a lot of 4x4's and should be able to diagnose/repair and speak English. Mohamed Gordito is very highly regarded, I've used Team Ali Nassir several times, English not brilliant but we managed. Replacement parts might be more difficult to get hold of there though

Contact details for Mohamed Gordito
Garage Mohamed Gordito

Adresse : Avenue Mohamed V, 47900 Zagora–Maroc
Téléphone : +212 668 960 594
Email : mohamedgordito4x4@gmail.com
GPS : N 30º 20 22.85 - W 5º 50 13.35

[EdoubleD]

Thanks for the advice. I think Zagora is too far out of my way home to go, annoyingly I was in Ouarzatete only 3 days ago, to cap it off there was a major spanish 4x4 rally starting there on Monday with all the support gear you could imagine...more than I've ever seen! I would imagine there was more combined land rover knowledge in that one spot than the whole of morrocco....sods law.

Over the course of the day I have managed to get a couple of contacts for mechanics who apparently speak english but I'm now very wary of paying for people to rule out what I already know. I am a basic level DIY mechanic but if it is say a bearing in the transfer box etc it's beyond my capabilities. At this point I just want some kind of opinion I can trust which does require a level of english, this is of course not their fault I don't speak French and I couldn't properly help someone speaking dutch to me in the UK.

Still I've got my surfboard with me, worst case I'll head over to Taghazout and refine my skills for the next few weeks.

Of course if anyone reading this does still have any contacts/suggestions they are very much welcome.

Revoir d'Agadir.....

[Jervig]

You could drive to Tan Tan, The Landrover city of Morocco.

I think they have over 50 unofficial LR workshops over there.

GRTZ,

JP

[EdoubleD]

Originally Posted by Jervig

You could drive to Tan Tan, The Landrover city of Morocco.

I think they have over 50 unofficial LR workshops over there.

GRTZ,

JP

Hmmm this sounds like it could be a good idea especially as it puts me in the right part of the country but it's 336km one way. Do you know of mechanics down there who speak English? The main problem I'm having is explaining what the problem isn't and I need someone who can drive around with me and I can explain whats happening while it's happening if that makes sense!

[Jervig]

Go to Ksar Tafnidilt, N28 32.760 W10 59.567 Overlander hotel and camping. The owner speaks some languages, having a lot of international 4x4 groups and organizing international tours and events himself. It is close, 10km, north of Tan Tan.

GRTZ,

JP

[PYM 808]

Trying to diagnose a fault remotely is difficult, if not nigh on impossible but something I have to try and do on a daily basis at work. (A mixed repair garage, car and commercial but with a keen interest in 4x4)

Noises in the transmissions are rather difficult to isolate as the sound can travel up and down the prop shafts. I will give you a basic run down of how I would try and identify the noise if your car came into our workshop.

On a road test where does the sound eminate? front, rear, middle? Best guess as you indicate the middle. G/box or transfer box? Does the clutch feel normal? Free off OK? ( on a flat surface with the clutch fully depressed and all brakes off when you select 1st gear does the vehicle nudge forward fractionally?) does it clear reverse OK?

Check the prop joints. ( I know you've done this) the most problematic is the front prop rear most joint. Also check that there's not an excessive amount of lost motion in the sliding joint and also up down rock.(push up and pull down in the middle,of,the prop)
Is there a lot of lost motion in rotation of either prop?

If possible I would then drive the vehicle with the wheels free in the air on a 4 post ramp. Stand under neath and listen for abnormal noises from the various transmission components. If you have trust worthy driver and the vehicle is secure you can run through the gears up to full motorway speed. I know in Morocco it's more likely to be sat on 4 Bedford gearbox casings..... Beware flying grit and pebbles as the wheels spin up!!

Next I would drain the oils from the various transmission units. Into a clean container so if your limited you can reuse. LR diff oils often come out slightly silvery but put a magnet in and check for bits or even use fingers.... Poke your finger through the drain hole and feel for debris. (carefully) On the transfer box and gearbox some of the plugs may have magnets any chunks? Bare in mind the g box level plug may come out like a Christmas tree of tiny fine particles if not changed recently. Ther is a large plate on the bottom of the transfer box you can take that off without issue and refit with RCV silicone sealer or even make a gasket out of thin cardboard. With this off you can inspect most of the gears.
A possible source of trouble can be from the gear in the transfer box that slides onto the output shaft of the gearbox. This is the one you had off. Are the splines flogged out? Is there a brown/red grinding paste type grunge in there? The TFB is generally otherwise pretty robust as long as it doesn't run short of oil or is abused with incorrect diff lock use.

The LR gearboxes are not the most robust units but normally make a fair row for a while before dying. If you drive them in 4th gear it takes the load off the bottom shaft and bearings (layshaft) if the problem is associated with you may be able to use 4 th low and drive slowly for a good while or even 4 hi on the better roads.

I've had a good few trips in Morocco and I'll never forget watching in horror a a small repair garage brazed a fractured brake pipe on my Jeep so I know how you feel.....
If you want to bounce ideas around help yourself. I hope some of this may help!

If you can look at the Ashcroft transmission site, biggest LR gearbox specalist and lots of good technical info on their site...

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk

One other thought, you've had the front prop and driven it, for a small amount of wasted time try repeating the same with the rear prop off. Make sure if you do so that either the transmission brake is secure via it's small screws or put a couple of prop nuts back on, they can fly off otherwise. Whilst your so close I'd also take a look in the transmission brake, you can get some strange noises and vibrations off it. Are the springs in place, is it full of sand/mud or the shoes covered with gunky oil grease?
Nick

[EdoubleD]

As far as I can tell it's from the middle of the car, it happens when going on the accelerator as it takes up drive (plus sound of slack due to age) and then as you come of the accelerator, this is the predominant time the sound happens. UJ's don't seem to have any play, the rear prop is solid with no movement in the handbrake drum. I checked the front again when it was off and it moves fine, there also seems to be normal free movement in the spline on the front prop. The only movement in the front prop is the 10 - 15mm of anticlockwise movement which has been there for a while. Right now I'm thinking this may have caused further wear in the transfer box? When you say lost motion are you referring to this slack as i would call it?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get it on a rolling road or something that I can drive it with the wheels free in the air so investigation this way is currently out. I've been driving it about for the last day, carefully I might add, and the noises tend to be in the lower gears where I'm the torque of lower gears exentuates the problem.

We drained the oil at the land rover dealer from the transfer box and it seemed fine with no bits, although I didn't poke my finger through.

The only other possible issue could be something to do with the fact that I have a 200tdi rear prop fitted (no donut coupler), maybe there is excessive wear in this area the due to the lack of a donut and a 2" lift kit putting extra pressure on it but as I said the rear propshaft seems solid as a rock

I guess next step is to have the plate off the TFB like you say, I haven't had this to bits and the drive shaft flange was still in place. Next from there would be looking at the transmission brake drum.

[PYM 808]

Originally Posted by EdoubleD

As far as I can tell it's from the middle of the car, it happens when going on the accelerator as it takes up drive (plus sound of slack due to age) and then as you come of the accelerator, this is the predominant time the sound happens. UJ's don't seem to have any play, the rear prop is solid with no movement in the handbrake drum. I checked the front again when it was off and it moves fine, there also seems to be normal free movement in the spline on the front prop. The only movement in the front prop is the 10 - 15mm of anticlockwise movement which has been there for a while. Right now I'm thinking this may have caused further wear in the transfer box? When you say lost motion are you referring to this slack as i would call it?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get it on a rolling road or something that I can drive it with the wheels free in the air so investigation this way is currently out. I've been driving it about for the last day, carefully I might add, and the noises tend to be in the lower gears where I'm the torque of lower gears exentuates the problem.

We drained the oil at the land rover dealer from the transfer box and it seemed fine with no bits, although I didn't poke my finger through.

The only other possible issue could be something to do with the fact that I have a 200tdi rear prop fitted (no donut coupler), maybe there is excessive wear in this area the due to the lack of a donut and a 2" lift kit putting extra pressure on it but as I said the rear propshaft seems solid as a rock

I guess next step is to have the plate off the TFB like you say, I haven't had this to bits and the drive shaft flange was still in place. Next from there would be looking at the transmission brake drum.

Yep lost motion = slack. 10-15mm @ the prop flange is normal.


If you can drive in tight circles on a high grip surface like a tarmac car park without tremendous noise and the oil is clean I think its unlikely to be the TFB.


Have you drained the g/box oil and checked that for debris as its a different system and oil to the TFB. Generally speaking LR's LT77 and your type the R380 gearboxes are a more common failure. As the noise is worse in the lower gears I think it may be associated with the bottom shaft assembly, called the layshaft. The problem with a G/box is that without something specialist equipment you cant see inside. If the noise is reduced dramatically in 4th gear, again that's a pointer to the layshaft assembly.
When you drive the vehicle can you feel the vibration harshness through the gear lever? Hold it below the knob which has an isolator rubber built in, maybe unscrew them both and drive and feel if either stick transfers the noise/vibration to your hand.


To drain and inspect the main g/box oil would definitely be my next step.


Nick

[EdoubleD]

I haven't had the gear box oil out yet so I'll try that tomorrow. I'm also going to check the diff oils as some people on landyforum have suggested that diff noises can very much sound like they are coming from the mid section of the car.

Having done lots of u turns etc I can safely say that there are no noises when I turn full lock on high grip surfaces (other than the power steering pumps working a bit harder than usual due to r16/285's!).

I've got oils with me but want to convserve them wherever I can, if I'm going to reuse oils I've drained do you think I need to filter these? If i do what would you suggest as a make shift filter? A rag and a funnel?

Also thank you so much for your replies, as a lone traveler with no one else to bounce ideas of it's very reassuring...I really appreciate it!