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31 Aug 2011
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Thanks for posting.
Looks more like a Freelander in the picture on the BBC website. Shapes are definitely heading into the 21st Century though, now you just need to hope that it will get some quality diesel engines as well...
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31 Aug 2011
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Looks like another plastic chelsea tractor....
And as it has be to cheaper and won't be sold to the military, you just know it is going to be plastic and full of electronics...
Sad times....
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31 Aug 2011
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2015 or earlier?
2015! Wow, I can't wait.
The last time I saw the UK military close up they had lots of LRs in all sorts of configurations, so, subject to the MoD procurement rules, I can't see why they won't continue to buy LR in the future.
In the meantime, the French Gendarmie have a number running about in their bit of the Alps and the Italian armed forces have shed loads of them, both their army and the Caribinieri. The Italians used LR extensively in the Balkans.
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31 Aug 2011
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"Land Rover insists its next Defender will be a rugged workhorse, having ruled out moving it upmarket as a luxurious car that simply looks butch on the outside," says BBC business reporter Jorn Madslien.
is this guy looking at the same picture? it doesn't look much like a rugged workhorse to me.
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31 Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterpaul
is this guy looking at the same picture? it doesn't look much like a rugged workhorse to me.
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He probably means for a drug dealer, silly 
John
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31 Aug 2011
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landrover nearly lost the MOD contract when the 'Wolf' was designed.
They didn't win it because they had the best or most suitable or capable vehicle. they won it because it was politically unacceptable for them to lose it, at that time.
I agree with the above comments. that is not a workhorse vehicle in the pictures, it's a chelsea tractor.
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1 Sep 2011
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There's a discussion over on the Adventure Bike Rider site about the new Defender entitled "Have they lost their collective minds?" Most posters, even those waving a Union Jack whilst typing, seem to think they have.
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1 Sep 2011
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Why doesn't TATA just keep making the Defender as is but shift production to India? Can't think of a vehicle made these days that's more suitable for being built by hand.
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1 Sep 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moggy 1968
landrover nearly lost the MOD contract when the 'Wolf' was designed.
They didn't win it because they had the best or most suitable or capable vehicle. they won it because it was politically unacceptable for them to lose it, at that time.
I agree with the above comments. that is not a workhorse vehicle in the pictures, it's a chelsea tractor.
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Yep, very true, which makes me think that LR will continue to win the future contracts for political reasons, assuming that they continue to be sourced from the UK (or at least appear to be via the marketing).
But the Wolf worked great and was a speedy vehicle around the highways of the Balkans 
In contrast, the Fwd Control LR for towing guns was a disaster. Most unfit for purpose.
Perhaps by 2015 the Defender will be the chelsea tractor and LR will be producing a "Willys Jeep" for the military market which, in fact, is rather small, especially for modern day factory production rates.
There again, following the political issues of years ago about Westland helicopters Vs the USA product and the possible tightening of procurement rules at the British MoD, the Brit military could end up driving Hummers (HumVee).
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27 Sep 2011
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New Defender
Quote:
Originally Posted by joova
Thanks for posting.
Looks more like a Freelander in the picture on the BBC website. Shapes are definitely heading into the 21st Century though, now you just need to hope that it will get some quality diesel engines as well...
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Land Rover Freelanders and RR Evoque are using a newish 2.2 diesel, imagine thats what the defender will havr to use - so cetainly a common rail, which rule ous servicing in the field with out computers !
UNfortunately I think this is a bit of a toughhie for LR damned if they do and damned if they don't!
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30 Sep 2011
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Yeah LR are in a difficult position, they have to sell vehicles in North America and Europe to help cover develpoment costs and 'improve the marques image' so any engine has to meet emissions legislation on both continents, be smooth refined, powerful and fuel effecient.
Yet for 3rd world use, we need simple reliable under stressed engines that run on crap diesel and can be bush repaired without a laptop/technician
On several occasions when working for Land Rover UK as an employee I suggested they make a 'bling' new defender for NAmerica/Europe markets on a modified T5 chassis with air/independent suspension, CRD engines and all the electronic gubbins - and a coiler with live axles, a proper 3 litre or more non CRD engine with minimal electrics for ROW (with some build quality please)
I get thoroughly annoyed with LR's insistance of using 2.5L or smaller engines in Defender/Defender replacement - start with a decent sized understressed bloody engine and make it bombproof.
Im sure LR will follow the herd and produce a plastic POS that sells well - and Id buy one here in Canada to replace our ageing gas guzzling Discovery, but I will keep the 300Tdi Defender for overlanding.......
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2 Oct 2011
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Unfortunately the only defender (series) landrover with a right size engine was the V8 . They dont seem to get the big engine /low stress since they went from series which was a medium engine/low stress unit. The 300 tdi was almost there pity it wasnt a six 3.75ltr.
It would be a good idea to have a big engine that has all the emissions crap , but can go to a dirty but usable mode when a sensor or chip fails !
And as already posted they need to realise they make enough plastic poser vehicles and need to retain 1 workhorse that is suitable to modify to "multirole" . JMHO
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2 Oct 2011
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The other purchase the mod have done is the panther - an iveco base product with a boat like hull that deflects blasts and no one sits over a wheel.
Again heavier than 3.5 tonnes, the landy isn't up to it for the military nowadays. Now if landrover had carried on developng the 101 into the lama into ? they might be there but even waving the flag probabily isn't going to get them massive orders now
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3 Oct 2011
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Ahhhh the one Tonne, I remember flying down the M4 in a 101 doing 80 mph towing a Rapier missile Launcher about 20 years ago.......much more capable than the 130 defenders we got to replace it and the PTO winch was awesome!
shame the Llama didnt take off, but the requirement and vehice size required for Military ops and armour has outgrown most manufacturers.
The size of the IEDs/suicide bombs being used in country currently will take out most vehicles short of a MBT, seems even the Panther is under protected too... or like usual, its been put in a role it wasnt designed for by the MOD:
Defence of the Realm: Costing lives
What the boys are up against, the truck that slows and pulls over to let the convoy past is packed with explosives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4uJFQZ96eIshould
even if you were in an M1 or Challenger 2 locked down, this would give you a nasty headache.
Its a shame the Td5 engine wasnt a 3 or 3.5 litre.....the concept was good, the end product was crap (IMO)
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4 Oct 2011
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If you look back to the very first landrover you can see the ethos that still commands the decision making today.
when they designed the first landrover they raided the rover p4 car parts bin.
when toyota developed the first landcruiser they raided their truck and bus division.
landrover are still basically producing cars that go off road. toyota build small trucks that go off road. thats why landrovers traditionally have small engines and landcruisers have big ones.
look at the engineering on a landcruiser and it is massive compared to a landie, at least my H60 is!!
Until landrover have a sea change in the culture of their approach they will continue to build vehicles that are fundamentally under engineered for what some of their end users want to put them through. The defender needs to be a commercial vehicle for the commercial market. I think the santana is more like the way defenders should have gone
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