Europe in 2027

[DavidR8]

Hello all,
My wife will have a year-long sabbatical in 2027. Yes, I know that's a lifetime in the future but I'm a planning nerd and I need the distraction of planning

We'd like to trace my father's wartime path through Europe which began in Italy and ended up in Holland.
Looking at bike rentals but the costs are looking pretty high for a multi-week tour. Instead we're thinking about flying our 2005 ST1300 over instead.

Based on some preliminary research it looks like air freighting a bike over to Paris or Rome from the west coast of Canada is about $5100 USD return. Renting an R1250RT looks to run about $125 USD day for 14+ day rental so we have to have a minimum 42 day trip for shipping to even start to be more economical.

Obviously lots of folks have shipped bikes before. Wondering which companies you've used, how challenging was insurance?

[Lonerider]

Have a look at this page, you might be able to dig out something useful
https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...ler-deal-80707
And this
https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-transport/

Wayne

[Turbofurball]

Not related directly to your questions, if it were me I'd do the trip in reverse. Holland doesn't provide much excitement riding-wise and car drivers are pretty chill so it's a good gentle introduction to Europe. The further south you go the more exciting the roads and other drivers get.

As for the bike, for that sort of money I'd look at buying a cheap bike and getting it insured using the Irish route ... that way your wife could have cheap transport for the whole year.

[DavidR8]

Originally Posted by Turbofurball

Not related directly to your questions, if it were me I'd do the trip in reverse. Holland doesn't provide much excitement riding-wise and car drivers are pretty chill so it's a good gentle introduction to Europe. The further south you go the more exciting the roads and other drivers get.

As for the bike, for that sort of money I'd look at buying a cheap bike and getting it insured using the Irish route ... that way your wife could have cheap transport for the whole year.

Thanks for this advice, it is appreciated.
We're looking at how we can start in the Netherlands. One option is to fly into Gatwick and take the ferry from Harwich to Rotterdam. There doesn't seem to be a air freight option to Amsterdam at this point but of course that might change by 2027/28

[RidingTheUnknown]

Hello David,

I tour Europe currently on my USA plated Motorcycle, I looked at tons of options this past year when I was planning my tour, this is what I came up with,
If your trip is over a month Shipping your bike starts to become a cheaper route than renting, if you're planning around a month renting will be far easier.
I shipped with Stefan Knopf Tours by boat, he will ship a container from Orlando fl guarantee for arrival before May 1st, all said and done a 1 way is $1200.
I know he collects or can arrange collection of bikes from all over the USA to put into that container but I'm not sure of the extra cost. I rode my bike to him around January and he stored free of charge in Orlando while waiting for the container. Once arriving in Heidelberg he stores for a Month for free, I believe I was told it was 35Eur a month after that, but I was there to collect so I can't confirm.
Air Canada from my research is the only Air cargo available from North America so they corner the market on it, There are other boat companies for shipping that are cheaper, but you likely have to pay middleman for customs fees if you go that route. Knopf clears customs US and German with no extra cost and bike is ready for when you arrive. I highly recommend his transport if it fits your timetable. I believe for transport home he ships back a container in the fall around October, but I haven't verified that or the return cost since returning is not anywhere on my radar ATM.
There is an option out there where USA citizens who shipped their bikes to Europe like me but want to sell in Europe rather than return it, legally they are not able to sell it to a European but they can sell it to an American so there is a market to buy USA plated bikes already over there. Europe is closing most of the loopholes for Americans to buy European plated bikes, by the Insurance route, you can buy it but good luck getting insurance without an address there. Ireland and Croatia seem to be the only ones I know brokering that type of thing, but I hear its harder and harder to get around the Insurance gambit.
As for an American to insure a USA plated bike its fairly simple, People like Knopf in Germany, Durby in Croatia (Sorry if I spelled it wrong), Motocamp Bulgria, and I think someone in Ireland all offer types of 3rd party insurance packages, some even with nearly full coverage and theft protection if that's the kind of thing you do. I went with MotocycleExpress a USA based but a German Alliance policy because I wanted full year coverage, I liked their price, and policy coverage. I advise to contact those listed above to see their prices and coverages, I personally now have met Knopf and Motocamp both are very stand-up people, MotorcycleExpress also has been very pleasant to work with too, (I have NOT had to file a claim yet so who knows what my recommendation will be if that is to occur, (my Disclaimer)). Those three I know won't lead you astray their prices are just different. Talk to them and get the one you feel most comfortable with.

I hope that helps you some, I am a planner too, so I did the same as you back in 2020 once I realized I needed a new place to roam, so I know the pains.

RidingTheUnknown

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by RidingTheUnknown

Europe is closing most of the loopholes for Americans to buy European plated bikes, by the Insurance route, you can buy it but good luck getting insurance without an address there. Ireland and Croatia seem to be the only ones I know brokering that type of thing, but I hear its harder and harder to get around the Insurance gambit.

Estonia allows non-residents to buy and register vehicles in their name, and insurance is pretty straightforward (I helped a non-EU person do that last summer).

[PanEuropean]

Originally Posted by DavidR8

...Wondering which companies you've used, how challenging was insurance?

I've shipped my STs (an 1100 and later a 1300) back and forth between Toronto & Europe a few times.

I've used a company called Motorcycle Express in the past. They are very competent. I've also dealt directly with Air Canada in the past, no problems there either.

Insurance is super-simple. You get what is called a "green card" insurance certificate, which provides the minimum required legal liability insurance for all of the Western European countries (EC countries) and most of the Central European countries. Various vendors that you will find mentioned here on the HUBB sell this coverage. It's exactly the same coverage no matter who you buy it from. See the Trip Paperwork section of the forum for more details. I have bought it from MotoCamp in Bulgaria in the past, cost is roughly CAD $100 a month. Forget about getting comprehensive or theft insurance, it's just not available. You really won't need theft insurance where you are planning to go - ST 1300s are not the kind of bike that gets stolen in your destination countries.

I do agree with the suggestion made above that you consider starting in the north (Netherlands) and then going south from there. Drivers are far more civilized in Netherlands than in Italy, it will be easier for you to adapt to driving in Europe if you start up in the north.

So far as "where to ship the bike", I've always found Paris to be a trouble-free location for pickup, customs clearance, etc. Anywhere in Germany would also be fine. Be aware that storage of the bike once it arrives at the freight warehouse in Europe will cost about CAD $100 a day, so plan to clear the bike out of the warehouse the same day you arrive.

As for shipping the bike back to Canada, I don't recommend you ship it out of Italy. Consider shipping it out of Zurich (expensive!) or Paris or Germany.

The air carriers allow you to put technical equipment related to the moto in the panniers (helmet, toolkit, perhaps your riding garments), but no other luggage. You don't have to disconnect the battery or crate the motorcycle, just show up with less than 1/4 of a tank of fuel. The freight handlers need (by law) to be able to inspect the fuel tank to confirm the fuel level is at or below 1/4 of a tank, for a ST 1300 this means attaching a key to a string and tying it to the handlebars so they can open the cap to look in if necessary. It's possible that this requirement might be waived by the freight handlers when you drop the bike off, but just be prepared to leave a key with the bike.

Here's a link to a post here on the HUBB that shows how the motorcycle gets handled to get it into the aircraft: click here. Note the 'CDN' white oval sticker on the back - you will need one of these. You can get a local sign maker to make one up for you - I had one made for my ST 1300 by a vinyl sign company in Sidney, BC a few years ago.

Hope this info helps.

Michael

PS: You will need a GPS navigator for the moto, that is indispensable, absolutely essential. European roads, especially in cities, are far more complex than North American roads. Forget about using a smartphone for navigation, the screen image is too small (regardless of screen size) for easy use in complex environments.

Be aware that Garmin navigators (the best one to use, in my opinion, after 20+ years of riding in Europe every year) come in both European and North American versions. The difference is the embedded basemap. You will need to buy a European version, which are not sold in North America. The European version (called the "Atlantic" version, vs. the "Americas" version) usually costs about 20% more than the North American version. Such is life...

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by PanEuropean

PS: You will need a GPS navigator for the moto, that is indispensable, absolutely essential. European roads, especially in cities, are far more complex than North American roads. Forget about using a smartphone for navigation, the screen image is too small (regardless of screen size) for easy use in complex environments.

Eh, I think that's a very personal issue, and compounded by being used to North American roads or being used to European cities. The advantage of a smartphone is that you can use connected maps that will route you around temporary road closures, and Waze is indispensable in Europe for knowing where cops and speed cameras are.

You definitely don't want to fiddle with a smartphone screen on a bike, even if your gloves are touch-sensitive, but in terms of setting a destination to an inner-city hotel and just following it, I'd take Waze over an offline Garmin any day.

[Tomkat]

A few thoughts.

For the cost of shipping your bike there and back you could definitely buy and insure a bike in Europe. AnTyx can help in Estonia, I've helped a guy in the past in the UK, and by all accounts Ireland is quite a straightforward place to buy (UK no longer in EU, complicates it slightly, technically you are only allowed 90 days out of 180 in EU). You don't need something the size of a monster BMW to tour Europe, the roads are fine and you'd be OK on (say) a 650 with luggage.

I prefer GPS over smartphone - I find the screen larger, brighter and clearer. Routing in cities can definitely be a headache so some sort of nav is a big advantage.

Theft can be a problem in the big cities. Find secure parking if possible, be prepared to lock it and don't leave luggage on the bike overnight. Out in the sticks no problem.

[PanEuropean]

Originally Posted by AnTyx

You definitely don't want to fiddle with a smartphone screen on a bike, even if your gloves are touch-sensitive, but in terms of setting a destination to an inner-city hotel and just following it, I'd take Waze over an offline Garmin any day.

Hi AnTyx:

I comprehend what you are saying, and why you are saying it (Wyze provides current traffic information and also some other useful information), but the problem I have found with smartphones is that the actual display of roads on the smartphone screen is "too small" to easily comprehend with a quick look down at the device.

Contemporary smartphones have very high pixel resolution on small screens. The result of this is that the details portrayed (roads, features, and especially labels & text) appear smaller - in much finer detail - than on motorcycle GPS navigators. The motorcycle GPS navigators have lower resolution screens, this results in a 'bigger picture'. In other words, the depiction of a road that might be 0.4 mm wide on a smartphone will likely be 0.8 mm wide on a motorcycle GPS navigator.

The result of this is that it is much easier and much faster (meaning, less 'head down' time) to check progress & upcoming leg changes on a motorcycle GPS navigator than on a smartphone. This is particularly important for older riders (>45 years old) whose vision does not adapt as quickly from head's up infinity focus to head's down 70 cm focus.

Contemporary motorcycle GPS navigators can be paired with a data connection on a phone to fetch and display traffic problems. I acknowledge that Wyze probably does a better (more immediate) job at fetching traffic conditions than the navigators, but I have not found the difference to be meaningful except perhaps in the most dense urban environments.

Michael

[cmattina]

Originally Posted by DavidR8

Hello all,
My wife will have a year-long sabbatical in 2027. Yes, I know that's a lifetime in the future but I'm a planning nerd and I need the distraction of planning

We'd like to trace my father's wartime path through Europe which began in Italy and ended up in Holland.
Looking at bike rentals but the costs are looking pretty high for a multi-week tour. Instead we're thinking about flying our 2005 ST1300 over instead.

Based on some preliminary research it looks like air freighting a bike over to Paris or Rome from the west coast of Canada is about $5100 USD return. Renting an R1250RT looks to run about $125 USD day for 14+ day rental so we have to have a minimum 42 day trip for shipping to even start to be more economical.

Obviously lots of folks have shipped bikes before. Wondering which companies you've used, how challenging was insurance?

Hi David, I see you have not logged in for a while.

But as a fellow Canadian who has done this a few times... I would strongly suggest you use mototouring out of Milan. they can buy an bike and get you all set up. You'll literally pay less for the bike in Italy than you would to fly your bike over. It will be cheaper and less hassle...

[DavidR8]

Originally Posted by cmattina

Hi David, I see you have not logged in for a while.

But as a fellow Canadian who has done this a few times... I would strongly suggest you use mototouring out of Milan. they can buy an bike and get you all set up. You'll literally pay less for the bike in Italy than you would to fly your bike over. It will be cheaper and less hassle...

Hi yes, it's been a while since I've been here.
We are actually planning to start in England, flying into Gatwick then over to Rotterdam and going around Europe in a counter-clockwise direction.
Obviously still miles out in the future.

[cmattina]

Originally Posted by DavidR8

Hi yes, it's been a while since I've been here.
We are actually planning to start in England, flying into Gatwick then over to Rotterdam and going around Europe in a counter-clockwise direction.
Obviously still miles out in the future.

Oh, I have done that myself...

I would say you should buy in UK, register the bike there, and then get insurance with Bikesure. Still cheaper than flying your bike there. I find bikes very reasonably priced in UK. When i did it, i bought the bike about 14 months before I flew in.

Only caveat is, it only works well if you plan to return the bike to the UK within a year...

[DavidR8]

Originally Posted by cmattina

Oh, I have done that myself...

I would say you should buy in UK, register the bike there, and then get insurance with Bikesure. Still cheaper than flying your bike there. I find bikes very reasonably priced in UK. When i did it, i bought the bike about 14 months before I flew in.

Only caveat is, it only works well if you plan to return the bike to the UK within a year...

What did you do with the bike for the 14 months before you got there?