Motorcycles older than 15 years he'll be banned from European cities...

[ta-rider]

...for environmental protection but cars and thursday SUBs are allowed:

https://www.openpetition.de/petition...ischen-stadten

[XS904]

Signed.

[moggy 1968]

subs on thursdays, that'll be handy

[ta-rider]

London is planing something simular for all old vehicles

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/env...e?intcmp=22947

and Paris as well: Paris will ältere Motorräder aussperren - Motorräder: StVO, Zulassung und Gesetze - MOTORRAD

[javkap]

Originally Posted by ta-rider

...for environmental protection but cars and thursday SUBs are allowed:

https://www.openpetition.de/petition...ischen-stadten

I’m still wondering what is a “thursday SUBs” and if that affects us in some way.

BTW are those kinds of online petitions binding in any way? And is this something usefully or to have in mind for Travellers on the supposition that maybe and only maybe, some day could be possible?? Or this thread should be on the HUBB PUB section???
My 2 pesos cents…

[chris]

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

subs on thursdays, that'll be handy

6 or 12 inch?

[Jake]

By the time this legislation comes in most of us with bikes over 15 years old will be suffering the full effects of Ethanol in fuel in any case, on other forums there are already reports of plastic tanks going soft and becoming porus, severe corrosion in carbs, fuel pipes disintegrating and no doubt other issues with this fuel so maybe two years or so we wont even make it down to the city as we will only have a melted pile of classic plastic in the garage.

Jake.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Jake

By the time this legislation comes in most of us with bikes over 15 years old will be suffering the full effects of Ethanol in fuel in any case, on other forums there are already reports of plastic tanks going soft and becoming porus, severe corrosion in carbs, fuel pipes disintegrating and no doubt other issues with this fuel so maybe two years or so we wont even make it down to the city as we will only have a melted pile of classic plastic in the garage.

Jake.

There has been a bit of discussion in the HUBB about ethanol in fuel, such as in Brazil, IIRC, where it is in very high concentrations (again IIRC).

Here in the UK it is generally thought to be about 5% at present but the EU rules permit up to 10% to be added.
All of the pumps in France have a sign, E10, to show that the normal stuff is at that concentration ("super" fuels are ethanol free apparently).
Here, signing is not part of the law so the fuel retailers can add as much as they like up to the 10% limit without informing us.

I did a check on the French products about 3 years ago (with the usual technique of brimming the tank) and the E10 fuel was consistently returning less miles per gallon/litre compared with the premium fuel.

There are no good features about using ethanol in fuel; even some "greens" have realised that the land used for producing ethanol crops could be better utilised to produce food.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by ta-rider

London is planing something simular for all old vehicles

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/env...e?intcmp=22947

If it, London, was to be totally traffic free I would even consider going there more frequently.

I suspect you are too young to have experienced "smog" (polluted fog).

There are plenty of vehicle dealers here in the UK who export old vehicles to Africa; the reasons are clear enough.

[Pongo]

This initiative started witht the mayor of Paris about three years ago, wanting to ban poluting motorcycles in Paris. In France there is no MOT or CT ("controle technique" for motorcyles, so a lot of the older 2 stroke bikes, esp Mopeds never get looked at or serviced properly, and are particularly polluting. Because other vehicles have to go through the CT and pass pollution control, they are not deemed to be a nuisance.

With the new harmonisation programme for vehicle testing coming on stream over the next few years, and the natural turnover in renewals, there is s strong argument against this stupidity. It will also be almost impossible to police.

Classic vehicle organisations ( like FIVA, FBHVC U.K.), are fighting this as well as it discriminates against peoples rights to use old vehicles without restriction, and vehicles which are usually maintained to a very high standard.

All said and done it`s a political issue driven by the greens, who would like to see all vehicles banned.

SUB`s// i thinik is a typo. Should be SUV`s.

[backofbeyond]

I've wondered whether the no (UK) MOT on pre 1960 vehicles (and rumoured soon to be adding another 10yrs, so pre 1970) + free road tax for pre 73 /4 (or whenever it is) is just a precursor to restricting those vehicles to clunker rallies and parades. Not quite yet but the government does tend to take its time over these things and we're getting the velvet glove first with the iron fist to follow.

Quite a few cities in Italy already ban two smokes so (for me anyway as I tour a 70's two stroke) there's already a 15yrs+ ban in place.

It's all the manufacturers fault anyway. Anyone with a few years on the clock will remember the "good old days" when cars rusted their way to the scrapyard in under 10yrs (and Vauxhalls in five). They're so much better now that loads of 15yr old ones are still in good nick and passing MOT's. My answer is that instead of getting a pollution ticket or whatever the fine will be for taking your car / bike into a restricted zone you should get a bundle of Quantitative Easing cash to buy a new one. They could just leave it under the windscreen wipers like the ticket It would probably be a better use of the money than what they're going to waste it on.

As for the petitions -

[traare]

Originally Posted by ta-rider

...for environmental protection but cars and thursday SUBs are allowed:

https://www.openpetition.de/petition...ischen-stadten

I haven't found anything on the website of the European Community saying so. So please include a link to the source.

In the Netherlands there are 13 cities that have so-called milieu-zones where restrictions apply to lorries and cars running on diesel.

Eddy

[Temporaryescapee]

Originally Posted by javkap

I’m still wondering what is a “thursday SUBs” and if that affects us in some way.

Thirsty SUVs! (I.e. 4x4s which use lots of petrol)

On the subject of E10 I agree there are issues with this. My 2007 DL1000 has run like a dog on this when i have taken it to France. As soon as i fill up in the Uk again it runs fine.

[Tim Cullis]

London's pollution is a matter of real concern, see London air pollution 'worst in Europe' | Environment | The Guardian

Whilst restrictions can are annoying, ultimately my family's health is more important to me than someone's right to ride an old motorbike.

[ta-rider]

Originally Posted by Tim Cullis

ultimately my family's health is more important to me than someone's right to ride an old motorbike.

Riding a simple old bike is still mnuch better for the envirement then any big new car will ever be...