Old age question - Foreigner & motorcycle in Mexico

[nomadicchris]

Hello guys! This is my very first post after months of using the site as a resource. I now have a question that I'm hoping can be answered, or at least to shed a little bit of light onto my situation!

Last year I rode an old Royal Enfield around India for 3 months and had one of the best experiences of my life! I'm now in Mexico and plan to purchase a motorcycle, and subsequently ride it through the country, eventually arriving into Panama. From there I will turn around, and ride it all the way back to Mexico, selling it before I return home. I plan to take this trip slow, stopping to volunteer and take Spanish classes along the way.

I'm from England, and do not have an FM3 visa, therefore registering the bike in my name is a no-go. I have read a plethora of conflicting information regarding this, but so far nothing definitive. I have been in Cancun for the last ten days and during this time have befriended the owner of the fantastic hostel in which I am currently staying at. I decided to head down to Honda, and purchase a brand new 2017 bike for the aforementioned trip. I haven't purchased it yet, but have put down a deposit on it in order to receive the placas. The sales guy informed me that the new bike could not go in my name (as expected) as I'm not a Mexican resident. (For the placas you need facturas/bills of an address) So in order to order the bike, I had to have the placas/plates put in the name of the hostel owner, Jamie, who kindly offered to do this for me.

When the bike comes into stock, I will return and pay the remainder of the balance. I also asked if the deposit was refundable, should there be any problems, in which the sales guy informed me that it could be. The sales guy was genuine, and didn't strike me as someone who would lie. He also told me that this is a common thing with foreigners. Also, the hostel owner, who also works as a tax lawyer, is trustworthy and therefore I have no issues with trust/friendship.

I have been told that when the bike comes into stock, I will need to pay the balance in order to receive the factura. (I have the deposit factura) Then, I will need a compra de venda, which is a form that is effectively an agreement between myself and the hostal owner in which he agrees to sell the bike, and all responsibilities over to me. Then, with both of our signatures on the compra de venda, I can then take it to a local lawyer who specialises in this and he will stamp his approval on it for $30 or so.

Apparently this process absolves all responsibility from Jamie (the hostel owner) and allows me to legally sell the bike back in Mexico, after my journey.

Does this process sound legitimate? Will I have problems crossing borders with the copy of the compra venda, and original factura of sale plus my license etc? Or would you stay away from the deal? To me it sounds legitimate and there are a few stories in which I have heard that back this up, but obviously I want to check first before paying the rest of the balance. Finally, is there any way at all to get this in my name, as ultimately that's what I would like!

Sorry it's a long one! I hope you've managed to get this far!

Your advice would be most welcome!

[markharf]

I don't know whether you'll be able to do what you are hoping, but I'll be interested in hearing more about how it goes. Post again about your progress here!

What I do know is that no matter where you are in the world, it's naive to commit money on the basis of the verbal promises of a "genuine" sales guy who "didn't strike me as someone who would lie." This is true whether or not the hostel owner "works as a tax lawyer" and "is trustworthy." Get it in writing, and in all respects do your best to make decisions based on good business practices, not "trust and friendship." It's tough enough to make those sorts of judgements when you share history, language and culture with someone--none of which you and your new friends have in common.

Hope that's helpful, and best of luck with your plans.

Mark

[nomadicchris]

From what I have read so far, it's okay to drive a motorcycle as a foreigner so long as it has placas - it can be in someone else's name, as long as I hold all of the relevant documents. Original factura of sale, tarjeta de vehículo etc. As well as this, I will have the compra de venda signed by both parties, and stamped by a third party lawyer that will verify whether the signatures are matched. I will have this stamped on the reverse of the sales receipt (factura) along with a copy of my passport, and the owner of the hostal's driving license.

I can't see this proving to be a problem in Mexico, as apparently it's quite normal to not have paperwork in your name, just so long as you hold all of the relevant documents for the vehicle. It also worked like this in India too. The bike I rode, along with others, had the original documents but in the original buyers name. As long as you had the card, you were legal and ready to go. The issue lies with crossing borders etc. That's the part I'm most unfamiliar with.

Take a look at this - http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...e-mexico-78521

Same situation, but without issues. What I really need is a few locals that are in the know to verify whether this is standard practise or not. I mean, how else would foreigners ride motorbikes in Mexico? For example, the Europeans that haven't purchased their bikes in the States?

Thanks for your reply. Really appreciate it.

[MikeMike]

Chris, get the deposit back immediately. Then, go yourself into the state hacienda office and speak personally with the person in charge of the office. Not a clerk, but the jefe or jefa. Ask for clear instructions as to how to register the vehicle in your namr. The comprobante de domocilio will be nothing but a receipt for light, water, phone, any one. Registration varies from state to state. If they cannot register it, find a state where the dealer will assist you. Simon Gandolfini did it here in Veracruz. Once you find out exactly what you need, go and buy whatever bike you want. Buy used. Honda are a pain nationally for warranty work and expensive. Also, see if you can qualify for an FM-3 if you have suffecient funds in a bank account. Missionaries working here do it all the time. Think it through before getting in too deep and losing time and money. There will be a way to get this done.

[pancho]

The FM3 is now known as a Residente Temporal. Odds are that the paperwork with the factura in someone´s name will be a red flag at the border. They are always looking for something in the paperwork that does not look normal.

[nomadicchris]

Originally Posted by MikeMike

Chris, get the deposit back immediately. Then, go yourself into the state hacienda office and speak personally with the person in charge of the office. Not a clerk, but the jefe or jefa. Ask for clear instructions as to how to register the vehicle in your namr. The comprobante de domocilio will be nothing but a receipt for light, water, phone, any one. Registration varies from state to state. If they cannot register it, find a state where the dealer will assist you. Simon Gandolfini did it here in Veracruz. Once you find out exactly what you need, go and buy whatever bike you want. Buy used. Honda are a pain nationally for warranty work and expensive. Also, see if you can qualify for an FM-3 if you have suffecient funds in a bank account. Missionaries working here do it all the time. Think it through before getting in too deep and losing time and money. There will be a way to get this done.

Thanks for your reply MikeMike. I don't pick the bike up for another 10-12 days or so so I still have time to retrieve the deposit back should I decide that I don't want to go down that route. I don't think I'll lose money. At worse, what would happen? I would have to sell the bike? Or my friend would have to sell it for me?

A brand new, Honda XR 2017, from a reputable dealership with all of the papers for a little over $1700 US represents excellent value for money. Plus, I continuously read conflicting information. There are stories and blogs regarding people that have bought cars and bikes & haven't had them changed into their name. They simply hold all of the paperwork, and the right to sell. This is how it works in India too! If I had an FM3, it wouldn't be a problem to change it over. An FM3 is just an extended visa/work and residencey. If I wanted, I could go down that route in the future as I can work here as an English teacher.

What I need to know really is quite simple. Can I legally ride a motorcycle in Mexico, that is fully registered and taxed, in a Mexicans name? Basically, although I'm paying for the bike, will I be able to legally ride it in my friends name in Mexico? As well as this, I will also have a sales agreement between me and the aforementioned friend, that gives me permission to use and sell it. This will also be signed by someone in authority. If I can, I'll take the chance and perhaps look at ways to get it in my name a little later.

Would you happen to know this information?

Thanks for the reply!

[MikeMike]

As long as you have a valid motorcycle license you can ride the bike. Do you have a Mexican motorcycle license? The difficulty might arise as you pass from country to country. A "compra/venta" (not "venda") is merely a buy sell agreement but has no real purpose in another country. The Mexican motorcycle license can help you if ýou are stopped in Mexico. Step back for a moment and objectively look at what you are asking authorities to believe and the narrative they will need to follow. First and foremost, go to the state hacienda office and ask first if you can legally register it in your name. If you are missing a document, can you qualify for that document? Listening to salesmen and lawyers is all well and good, but try to get the legitimate info first directly from those who do the licensing (plating) of the vehicle. You can trust anyone you want but I've been living here a long time and I only trust notarized documents reviewed by my personal notary as a rule of thumb.

If you have a valid bike license you can legally operate the vehicle.

However, you will have to check if the insurance will be valid for you.

I really urge you to get straight info from the state hacienda office and don't leave that deposit too late. For the record, I have never had to leave a deposit on any bike I have bought here at any dealer. I don't know why Honda asked you to do that.

Also the "signed by someone in authority" who are you thinking of? Be sure you can read and understand whatever it is you are signing, especially if it is notarized.

[pancho]

Quintana Roo is a free state and so it has different vehicle laws than mainland states. Probably a good idea to get some sound legal advice from a lawyer in a neighboring state to confirm what info you currently have.

[Tony LEE]

Don't know about Mexico but down south driving someone elses vehicle is a real risk. Perhaps not for a foreigner driving a local vehicle but certainly for a local driving a foreigners vehicle.

Basic requirement for any border crossing is that the driver and his passport and all the details on vehicle documentation must match OR there is a legal document carried to explain the discrepancy. This is normally a Poder/Power of Attorney/whatever in which the legal owner gives the driver permission to drive the vehicle and cross borders. Drawn up by an appointed official and certified etc etc. plus another page of holograaphic seals and stamps from officials

[nomadicchris]

I have a UK motorcycle license. From the reading that I have been doing, that is also okay? Right? It's stated on my current card and I'm also carrying an international license as well.

I have spoken with three different Mexicans today, and they have all informed me that this procedure is perfectly normal here. I don't know how informed they are, but they all assure me that driving a vehicle registered in someone's name, as long as the driver/rider holds the tarjeta de circulación and a valid license, with a transfer of owner factura, signed by both parties etc, then this is perfectly okay & that I should stop worrying.

As well as this, an Australian friend of mine that has completed the same journey from Panama on his own bike, told me that he met a lot of travellers from other countries that had been travelling down from Mexico that had purchased vehicles there, without being the owner on the documentation. One example he gave was of a German family that were travelling from Mexico, and were using a friends car. Another example was an Aussie guy who bought a van in Mexico to ship him and his mates through Central America to surf spots. He said it was more common than you'd think, and that sometimes the internet is a little misinformed. I'm not saying that that's the case, but a simple google will yield stories where this procedure has worked okay. I'm yet to read a story from someone that has had problems; only advice that it isn't possible to do.

The poder - that's the form that I meant. Along with the compra de venta. That's the form that I was referring to. Sorry for misinforming. Surely if I obtain one of them from the original buyer (my friend) and have it stamped like the example, then I'm good to go? I can't see why I would t be?

[MikeMike]

An international drivers license isnt much compared to what it used to be. A valid motorcycle license is required.
It is "compra venta" not "compra de venta".
It is "carta de poder" and it is not a bad idea to have it notarized.
The factura is the original bill of sale.
The tarjeta de circulacion is the vehicle registration that matches the serial numbers of the bike and the plate issued to the bike.
The factura will be in your name but it wont match the tarjeta de circulacion. The carta de poder will need to expressly state that you are operating the vehicle with the owne's consent and explain the descrepancy between the ownership and the registration.
Is this what you are requiring?
If so, you will need to have someone draft the carta de poder specifically for what you require. When you cross into Guatemala, you'll begin to get an idea of how easy it will be to get it to work. Same for any time you get stopped by a cop. Dont be surprised if they question things and you incurr an extra "fee" with border bueaucrats or cops.
Try registering it in your name first. If you can, you're good to go. It's surprising how things have a way of working out sometimes.
Be careful with insurance.
Small capacity bikes are the most stolen vehicles throughout Latin America. Make absolutely sure you understand your insurance policy regarding this. Same for liability insurance. Liability laws changed some time ago and the increasevin payouts is much much higher. Make sure you have and understand the "amparo" process. It is the single most important item in any vehicle policy.

[nomadicchris]

I have a UK motorcycle license. From the reading that I have been doing, that is also okay? Right? It's stated on my current card and I'm also carrying an international license as well.

I have spoken with three different Mexicans today, and they have all informed me that this procedure is perfectly normal here. I don't know how informed they are, but they all assure me that driving a vehicle registered in someone's name, as long as the driver/rider holds the tarjeta de circulación and a valid license, with a transfer of owner factura, signed by both parties etc, then this is perfectly okay & that I should stop worrying.

As well as this, an Australian friend of mine that has completed the same journey from Panama on his own bike, told me that he met a lot of travellers from other countries that had been travelling down from Mexico that had purchased vehicles there, without being the owner on the documentation. One example he gave was of a German family that were travelling from Mexico, and were using a friends car. Another example was an Aussie guy who bought a van in Mexico to ship him and his mates through Central America to surf spots. He said it was more common than you'd think, and that sometimes the internet is a little misinformed. I'm not saying that that's the case, but a simple google will yield stories where this procedure has worked okay. I'm yet to read a story from someone that has had problems; only advice that it isn't possible to do.

The poder - that's the form that I meant. Along with the compra de venta. That's the form that I was referring to. Sorry for misinforming. Surely if I obtain one of them from the original buyer (my friend) and have it stamped like the example, then I'm good to go? I can't see why I would t be?

[pancho]

The liability insurance limits vary state by state, so it is advisable to buy insurance at the level that will cover you in all the states you plan to travel.

[xfiltrate]

"Then, with both of our signatures on the compra de venda, I can then take it to a local lawyer who specialises in this and he will stamp his approval on it for $30 or so. "

nomadicchris,

Just coming into this conversation late, but I do have a question. Do you plan to register the hostel owners (seller's) motorcycle in your name? - I lived and worked in Mexico for three years and then traveled the country as recently as this year, I know the local - city police - sort of serve a crime prevention function, leaving all investigation functions to the State police or in the case of federal crimes to the Federal police.

Laws and enforcement vary widely from Mexican State to Mexican State - and country to country. I would not rely on a "local lawyer" to be able to stamp away liability for the (seller) owner. The State/Federal police and a court will determine liability in the event of any accident involving personal injury or substantial property damage. If the motorcycle remains registered in the present owner's name without you transferring title to your name, the current owner may in fact be held libel for any liabilities related to his motorcycle. There might also be time limits relating to how long recently sold vehicle may remain in the seller's name.

If the seller owns a hostel - or rents a hostel from the owner for the purpose of renting rooms, this seller seems to have at least some financial resources and will become the target of any liability suite no matter what stamps a "local attorney" has attached to documents. It is not a matter for the local attorney to determine.

Meanwhile - in whose name will you be purchasing insurance? Without having the motorcycle registered in your name will a Mexican insurance company or insurance companies in the countries you will be visiting even sell insurance if it is not in the owner's name.

By now, you might have moved on to buying from a reputable dealer and have the dealer handle your registration, plates and even advise you of a reputable insurance company - I hope so.

xfiltrate

[nomadicchris]

The deposit was placed in a Honda dealership so it was perfectly reputable. He specifically told me that he couldn't register the motorcycle in my name but could my friend. He also said that I could transfer it afterwards and that I could ride with the carta de poder as long as both parties sign it, and get it stamped in a notaría. The only issue was with crossing borders.

Anyway, this morning I cancelled the order. I'm going to travel to Mexico City to seek some advice from foreigners that I know managed to register bikes in their name without the FM3. Failing that, I'll head to Guatemala. I understand that it's perfectly okay to buy a bike in your own name there.