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21 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuming
This thread won't die will it? We all have preferences of bike; no doubt we have all had good and bad experiences with bikes of whatever make. If you are happy with what you ride, great! If not, change it. As somebody has already pointed out: there is no perfect bike, only what is right for YOU. So please stop this arguing over what, in the grand scheme of things, is pretty insignificant and go and enjoy your bikes (whatever you happen to ride).  |
Agreed 100%.
But as you can see, for some people, there's no end to BMW-hatred and bashing  There's always an excuse to bash something. And if someone steps out to say things aren't that "black&white" or (over-)generalized someone tries to paint them, it's the BMW owners who then get bashed. Apparently bashing BMW gives great satisfaction for some certain type of people, ...especially those who haven't owned one 
Maybe moderators should create separate forum section named: "Bash BMW here!" or "Your personal punching-bag", and those angry people can let all their steam out with all the words they can w/o any limits? Sounds like a ingenious idea to me, at least (hopefully) keeps the other threads clean.
Now I'll go out riding my trusty BMW, over ten years old and currently 80K on the clock and not a single fault after all the abuse it gets from me - will let you know when EWS gives up (oops, I dont have one?), rear wheel gets loose, gearbox blows, shaft drive kaputt up or the engine seizes 
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21 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uganduro
I did, earlier in this thread. R1100 models showed in an independent survey (riders having done >20k Km on them were allowed to participate) showed a 25% GEARBOX BREAKDOWN.
That was around 8 years ago, that percentage has gone way up by now.
The same questionnaire, filled in for the Pan European ST1100, didn't come up with even one gearbox breakdown, nor were there any drive line failures. As you know, the ST1100 gearbox & drive line are very comparable to the faulty bmw (getrag) parts.
Looking at the newer bmw 1200GS model, the pictures becomes even worse. The percentage motorbikes with one or more of the following warranty claims is terrifying:
- rear wheels coming loose,
- leaking drive lines,
- leaking gearboxes,
- exhaust valves breaking off
-"ringantenne" / EWS breakdown
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Data? Did someone say data? As I've said over and over, IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE, especially among BMW owners.
Lets start with this one:
BMW FD Failure List
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21 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
Data? Did someone say data? As I've said over and over, IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE, especially among BMW owners.
Lets start with this one:
BMW FD Failure List |
So you found documentation on four FD-errors on 1200GS :-)
Nice job, they have sold more then 100.000 1200GS…
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22 Aug 2008
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The discussion seems to have morphed to be about BMW in general, not the GS. Here's another tid bit. (shhhh .... more lies)
Read a few pages in if you have the patience. This is just one of hundreds of owners forums with reports on this.
MCN (US version) just published a pretty damning article on FD failures too.
But of course, they're liars and have never owned BMW and must be paid by the "Japs" to Bash! Right? 
Motorcycle Consumer News, F/D Failure - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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22 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
The discussion seems to have morphed to be about BMW in general, not the GS. Here's another tid bit. (shhhh .... more lies)
Read a few pages in if you have the patience. This is just one of hundreds of owners forums with reports on this.
MCN (US version) just published a pretty damning article on FD failures too.
But of course, they're liars and have never owned BMW and must be paid by the "Japs" to Bash! Right?
Motorcycle Consumer News, F/D Failure - BMW Luxury Touring Community |
Sorry Mollydog, I don’t know anything about the LT and I stay away from discussions where I don’t have first-hand experience.
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22 Aug 2008
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The LT is a BMW. The MCN article is about BMW final drive failures. I will post it if they publish it on their website. So far, it is not there.
You stay away from?:confused1: Yes, I noticed 
Cheers,
Patrick
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22 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margus
Apples or oranges?
Are STs being ridden on dirt, gravel roads or offroad?
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the bmw questionnaire was on the R1100RT, that in fact showed the 25% gearbox failure rate
At that time it was the best selling bike in the country.
Direct competitor to the ST1100.
The article on the R1100GS was equally shocking, but I don't have that particular one any more, so I can't quote exact percentages.
A "quality" poll on the dutch GS club site, shows that only 48% of 1200GS owners have had no technical problems/ warranty claims at all.
20% of respondents have had severe probs... Pictures of broken off exhaust valves are particularly hot at the moment.
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22 Aug 2008
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Sure every bike model ever made will have some individual units, that will not function as well as the majority of them do.
But I think its correct to say the R1200GS as a model, and considering the kind of bike it is, its price range, and from which factory it comes from, has had more than its fair share of problems during these 4 years.
Its supposed to be "the real deal" of their adventure range, and yet it seems like a lot of the expensive new GS´s wont take even normal use without any troubles. That is below-par, no matter how much you want to forgive BMW.
Sure its a nice bike, versatile and sweet handling. But for a very long trip, and when going outside the regular dealer network, I´d choose something else. Just my 0.02 cents...
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22 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uganduro
the bmw questionnaire was on the R1100RT, that in fact showed the 25% gearbox failure rate
At that time it was the best selling bike in the country.
Direct competitor to the ST1100.
The article on the R1100GS was equally shocking, but I don't have that particular one any more, so I can't quote exact percentages.
A "quality" poll on the dutch GS club site, shows that only 48% of 1200GS owners have had no technical problems/ warranty claims at all.
20% of respondents have had severe probs... Pictures of broken off exhaust valves are particularly hot at the moment.
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Post links first please.
Getrag info on 1100 transmissions can be found here. No-one there says about your very nice'n'round number 25% of failures. Factory should have that kind of info, and if it was so it'd be a media-wide scandal if every 4th bike had a blown transmission on low mileages through out it's production years IMO.
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22 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
Data? Did someone say data? As I've said over and over, IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE, especially among BMW owners.
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Wow, you must be personally deep inside BMW owner field to know such stuff. It has to be top-secret common knowledge then.
Being BMW owner myself and constantly in communication with other (thousands of) BMW owners through various forums or personally, I've never heard about it being a common knowledge. Just few rumours earlyer models may had some potential issues like early 1993-1995 R1100 models gearboxes with noise-supressing bearings, or early 1200 models with non-serivicable final drives.
The same rumours you hear about Japanese bikes, like early V-Stroms with constantly blown clutches, surging EFIs etc.
Never believed rumors myself.
But certainly nothing to do with common knowledge, and especially among BMW owners who have first hand experience with the bikes.
Smells like another village gossip or a rumour that Mollydog's (selectively) taking seriously, mainly because the name "BMW" is marked there?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mollydog;203303
Lets start with this one:
[url=http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php
BMW FD Failure List[/url]
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As AliBaba already pointed out, divide production numbers with those first, do you get 25%?
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22 Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
The LT is a BMW. The MCN article is about BMW final drive failures. I will post it if they publish it on their website. So far, it is not there.
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We all are looking forward to see unbiased real-life data and extensive survey done on the case, how big is the failure rate, various graphs, how are the bikes ridden and serviced, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
You stay away from?:confused1: Yes, I noticed
Cheers,
Patrick |
Ignorance is bliss. Apparently you didn't get AliBaba's point. What he probably ment was:
Don't knock one if you know nothing about one.
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22 Aug 2008
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Read this short blog from a BMW rider who lives in my neighborhood.
Check the number of failed parts and all the maintenance required.
Yes, 100,000 miles but a lot of problems along the way!
2005 BMW R1200GS Service History
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22 Aug 2008
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Almost forgot this reference.
The BMWMOA is the largest BMW motorcycle organization in the world. It is USA based and is full of lawyers, doctors, even State Senators and Congress folks!
This is just one of dozens of threads about final drive and transmission failures, electric, ABS, and lack of response from BMW NA in New Jersey.
It would take years to read through them all ......
Article on BMW Final Drive Failures - BMW MOA
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