Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear?

Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear? Anything to do with the bikes equipment, saddlebags, etc. Questions on repairs and maintenance of the bike itself belong in the Brand Specific Tech Forums.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Giant Loop Motorcycle Saddlebags & Motorcycle Tank Bags: Panniers, Soft Luggage for Adventure & Sport Touring

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 1 Jun 2011
T.REX63's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / USA
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxer.rob View Post
Soft off road
Plastic on road
...and aluminum for either one
__________________
Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 1 Jun 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Aussie expat in Switzerland half way RTW
Posts: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by colebatch View Post
A russian guy I know who has ridden around the world once summarised this debate .... not saying I agree with him - at least not to this degree ... but his quote was simple and catchy:

"The pros use soft bags, the amateurs use metal boxes."

My experience is probably more like ... the experienced increasingly use soft bags, while the inexperienced are more likely to begin using metal boxes. i.e. There are many who started with metal boxes who switch to soft bags as they get more experienced. Many of the guys posting in this thread advocating soft bags are guys who began touring with metal boxes. They converted.

In the other direction, there are very few who switch from soft bags to metal boxes as they get more experienced.

There are experienced riders out there who still ride with metal boxes. But in most of those cases, its guys (or girls) who have never tried doing a long trip with soft bags.

Its an emotional debate ... and I will probably be flamed for having a pretty strong opinion on it. But I think I have enough experience to justify a strong opinion.

There are many threads on this site covering this ongoing debate of soft vs hard It may be worth your while to search them if you have doubts, read the opinions of others, and draw your own conclusions.

Very well summed up Colebatch. I have to agree with everything you said. Oh and who is your Russian biker RTW'er friend? Sounds like a smart guy.

To answer the OP about handling which then turned into a Hard vs Soft vs Plastic debate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by big ben View Post
hi all, i've never travelled on a bike with hard panniers and being very new to this kind of thing just wondered how they will change the handling of the bike if at all.maybe soft panniers would be better ,if anyone can help that would be great thanks
Added unbalanced weight will contribute to poor handling but there are things you should do whatever luggage you choose. Keep in mind that each bike has it's own max carrying capacity.

This is not just in reference to the suspension, handling or tyre capabilities but also to not stress the frame and engine beyond its designed capacity.

To compensate for extra weight and overloading, you should do the following:
1) increase tyre pressure - I usually run 2-3 psi higher
2) check oil more regularly
3) check/adjust suspension setup - you may need higher rated spring(s)
4) increase stopping distances - more load means it will take longer to stop
5) keep heavy items as low and central as possible
6) keep weight in topbox to minimum (to much weight will cause the bike to tail steer in soft surfaces and can cause an accident)
7) adjust front/rear balance - where possible redistribute the weight to the front of the bike

With the right setup your bike should still handle as well as with just the rider with no luggage. BUT every rider should customise their bike setup for themself.

Ted started a good thread on this very topic here.
__________________
TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

Last edited by TurboCharger; 1 Jun 2011 at 13:18.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 1 Jun 2011
farqhuar's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oztralia
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboCharger View Post
Added unbalanced weight will contribute to poor handling but there are things you should do whatever luggage you choose. Keep in mind that each bike has it's own max carrying capacity.

This is not just in reference to the suspension, handling or tyre capabilities but also to not stress the frame and engine beyond its designed capacity.

To compensate for extra weight and overloading, you should do the following:
1) increase tyre pressure - I usually run 2-3 psi higher
2) check oil more regularly
3) check/adjust suspension setup - you may need higher rated spring(s)
4) increase stopping distances - more load means it will take longer to stop
5) keep heavy items as low and central as possible
6) keep weight in topbox to minimum (to much weight will cause the bike to tail steer in soft surfaces and can cause an accident)
7) adjust front/rear balance - where possible redistribute the weight to the front of the bike

With the right setup your bike should still handle as well as with just the rider with no luggage. BUT every rider should customise their bike setup for themself.
I think your last point is the most important, but I'd like to turn it around a little. The reality is that it's very rare for anyone to be able to add enough luggage such that it equals the weight of carrying a pillion.

If you truly want to get an idea of how much all that luggage is going to adversely affect your handling then simply get a bit of practice riding with a pillion. If you're fine with carrying the shifting weight of a pillion then the significantly reduced weight of immobile luggage is not going to be an issue.

My heaviest bike weighs a massive 430kg without rider or luggage, but all that weight almost disappears once you get above 5mph.
__________________
Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 1 Jun 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: worcestershire
Posts: 49
lots of you guys think soft is the way to go but don't really explain why and as a no nothing like me can't see it so please can you go in to detail about how they will make a difference off road cheers
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 1 Jun 2011
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by big ben View Post
lots of you guys think soft is the way to go but don't really explain why and as a no nothing like me can't see it so please can you go in to detail about how they will make a difference off road cheers
as mentioned above, there are dozens of threads on this forum that go into that in a lot of detail. You do need to do a search and read up on the topic if there is not enough information being given to you in this thread.

Basically riding a big bike off road can be a bit like driving a 3 wheeled bus across a sand dune. Soft bags are considerably lighter (most set ups will save 12-15 kgs), and considerably safer (falling and trapping a leg under your soft bags is a non issue. Its a different story if your bike falls on your leg via hard boxes.

Weight is critical - ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL - if you are doing serious long distance dirt or off road riding. Did you watch Long Way Round? 2 guys who didnt know how its done, or what they were doing ... (was their first trip) ... decided to go on the heaviest possible bikes and then added 3 metal boxes AND a 90 litre roll bag each on top of that. They only had 2 serious off road / dirt road sections in the whole trip, Mongolia and the Road of Bones ... and they didnt really complete either of them. Mongolia was a real struggle and they wanted to quit it anyway - when luckily Russ rolled his truck allowing them to hot foot it by asphalt and train 2500 km away. Then they were unable to complete the Road of Bones - apparently because Charley hurt his back manhandling his 350 kgs of bike and luggage.

If thats what you want out of overlanding, go for metal boxes - its the fashion, the image. You will hate the off road and want to quit when you get to Mongolia and then you will drop your bike in every river crossing in Siberia before damaging your back picking the bike up out of the water.

or ... you can take the advice of people who do this a lot and think rationally and critically about the gear they choose, and choose a lighter bike and soft bags.
__________________
__________________________________________________ ________________
"Do NOT go wherever the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path, and leave a trail"



Sibirsky Extreme - Adventure Motorcycling Guide to Siberia and Mongolia - on Facebook

Click here for Sibirsky Extreme Trail DVD Trailer
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 1 Jun 2011
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 4,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by colebatch View Post
as mentioned above, there are dozens of threads on this forum that go into that in a lot of detail. You do need to do a search and read up on the topic if there is not enough information being given to you in this thread.

Basically riding a big bike off road can be a bit like driving a 3 wheeled bus across a sand dune. Soft bags are considerably lighter (most set ups will save 12-15 kgs), and considerably safer (falling and trapping a leg under your soft bags is a non issue. Its a different story if your bike falls on your leg via hard boxes.

Weight is critical - ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL - if you are doing serious long distance dirt or off road riding. Did you watch Long Way Round? 2 guys who didnt know how its done, or what they were doing ... (was their first trip) ... decided to go on the heaviest possible bikes and then added 3 metal boxes AND a 90 litre roll bag each on top of that. They only had 2 serious off road / dirt road sections in the whole trip, Mongolia and the Road of Bones ... and they didnt really complete either of them. Mongolia was a real struggle and they wanted to quit it anyway - when luckily Russ rolled his truck allowing them to hot foot it by asphalt and train 2500 km away. Then they were unable to complete the Road of Bones - apparently because Charley hurt his back manhandling his 350 kgs of bike and luggage.

If thats what you want out of overlanding, go for metal boxes - its the fashion, the image. You will hate the off road and want to quit when you get to Mongolia and then you will drop your bike in every river crossing in Siberia before damaging your back picking the bike up out of the water.

or ... you can take the advice of people who do this a lot and think rationally and critically about the gear they choose, and choose a lighter bike and soft bags.
#
Well said !!!
__________________
www.TouringTed.com
1994 XR650L
2001 NX650 Dominator.

BMW Dealer Technician
Welder/Fabricator

Ushuaia - Colombia 2007/8
UK- South Africa 2010/11
India 2012
Yukon 2012
S.E Asia 2014
U.K - Magadan 2015
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 1 Jun 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary AB
Posts: 692
To add to that about the weight debate and why it's so important or all important we have to go back to our highschool physics days. Riding a bike is experimenting with all the physics you've learned. The debate about why a bike self balances under momentum still hasn't been answered BTW (it's not the rake of the forks. That's been discounted) so don't feel bad if you don't get this.

On advanced turning training on road surfaces you're taught to lean your weight into the corner and with the shoulder leaning into the turn and the head vertical. More advanced is to put your bum cheek onto the side of the seat of the turn. This it to put the stress onto the contact patch and force the bike into the turn something that's unnatural to it by moving the bike COG into the turn away from the contact patch. To speed this up the more weight further out from the contact patch the tighter you can turn with more control (there is a limit). This summarises as: weight used = bike static weight + body weight. leaving out momentum and distance from the contact patch. With luggage on the bike the (static) weight is increased and puts more stress onto the contact patch. This is not ideal because the COG of the bike it not centred because the luggage ruins the engineers efforts on the bike balancing and suspension setup. So for road performance the weight issue is just as valid but for different reasons. FWIW this is where the pillion argument falls over because it's not static weight. They're meant to move with the rider hence increasing bike control.

The technique above assumes a perfect traction from the ground surface to prevent washing out. Riding on natural / dirt surfaces this technique is completely opposite from above. The name of the game is to keep the COG exactly and perfectly above the contact patch at all times. Mostly on the front wheel. Master this and you master riding off road. It's not as easy as it sounds. Add timing and forward and rear ward weight adjustments and it becomes a constant effort to move left, right, rear and forward on the bike depending on the ground conditions which is (partly) why the pro's stand up nearly all day. This is also done due to momentary forces. The closer the weight is to the contact patch vertically and horizontally the better.

This is the important bit. The limit of control on an off road bike riding off road is the amount of weight the rider has to counter act the weight of the bike. The heavier the bike, the more weight the rider needs to shift the COG above the contact patch. Less balance means the rider can't force the bike to turn as well. Hence smaller / lighter bikes react more nimbly. But this wouldn't be the case if the weight balance ratio would be equal to a rider with a big bike. A midget on a TTR still wouldn't control the bike as well. For this reason I've got massive respect for the female Dakar riders. They've got less weight to work with and still manage to ride those things better that I'll ever manage. They have to use the techniques perfectly and to the fullest degree.

Going back to luggage. This is static weight meaning that unless you make yourself heavier to counter act these forces away from the COG on the contact patch you'll make the whole thing hard work and slower, scarier, less accurate, meaning more corrections and less fun to ride. There is a limit to this because the total weight is still a factor. This is why people with some experience tend to flock to soft luggage. As said, in my case this took 2 trips and getting a trail bike to make this happen. If I'd still live in NW Europe (no off road opportunities) I'd probably still be on the hard stuff. Probably pelican. I think a lot of people from areas with little adventure riding that do use soft right away have a motorcross background. Cause they know all about making things lighter.

Last edited by tmotten; 2 Jun 2011 at 03:02.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 2 Jun 2011
T.REX63's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / USA
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmotten View Post
... so don't feel bad if you don't get this.
...
That's it, ...forget about luggage, plastic-, soft- or otherwise... I'll just pack my toothbrush and credit card - problem solved
__________________
Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 2 Jun 2011
farqhuar's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oztralia
Posts: 566
Yes, and no. I realise I am in the majority on this one but I have spent many years on the road riding all sorts of unsuitable machinery in all the wrong conditions.

What are we really trying to achieve? The vast majority of our riding is done on bitumen NOT off road. The vast majority of our off road riding is on tracks travelled regularly by locals in non off-road vehicles.

Yes, it's great to have a super light bike and premium price super light / super compact luggage but what are we really trying to achieve here?

International travellers are usually spending extended time on the road and require a few creature comforts. They are also not usually facing tight deadlines (or why else would we do these rides), and an extra day here and there spent taking a "not the best bike for the conditions" vehicle through difficult conditions is not a major problem - if it is then we can usually change our plans accordingly.

So where do you compromise? Do you want the lightest bike with the lightest (most expensive) luggage so you can get the farthest off the beaten track in the shortest possible time, or do you want some creature comforts and are prepared to pay the price - going a little slower and taking a little more time? You still get there in the end either way - look at the people who did these rides 80-90 years ago, the roads were a lot worse then and the equipment was much heavier and a lot less reliable and there wasn't a posse of other RTW riders a day or two behind them who they could ask for help if they really got stuck.

Hmm, then again maybe I'm just getting old.
__________________
Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 2 Jun 2011
PocketHead's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sucre, Bolivia
Posts: 556
I have the Andy Strapz soft bags, they're excellent. The only time they've failed on me in the last 2 years has been recently when I crashed my bike at 80km/h and they came slightly apart at the seams. I had these resewn by a guy on the street for 15 Bs, like $2 and they're good to go again!

A few other benefits:
  • They look cool
  • They're really light
  • Very waterproof
  • Can hold heaps of stuff
  • You can carry both bags into your hotel/hostel room at the same time - I don't think this is possible with two large metal boxes. As a matter of fact I can carry all of my gear at one time.
  • Easy to adapt to the motorcycle
  • Very strong
  • Only take as much room as what you put in them

Also security has never been an issue for me.

Speaking of light bikes, my ride is a little DR200, it's a great setup for off-roading, though if I had the money I'd upgrade to a DRZ400.

Here she is


Also, imagine being in this situation on a 1000+cc bike with hard cases? This was in the middle of nowhere...


My opinion is that big bikes and hard luggage have their place but it's sure as hell not in Bolivia
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 2 Jun 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary AB
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by farqhuar View Post
Yes, it's great to have a super light bike and premium price super light / super compact luggage but what are we really trying to achieve here?
This is why I initially talked about what riding you enjoy. Typically the first timer has no off road experience and usually end up hating it because off the wrong gear. Some keep trying to find ways to improve, other just don't get into that environment. How many threads asking about road conditions aren't there. Often the best places are the hardest to get to. I couldn't make it to Uruya because of the setup I had. That sucked. Crossing the altiplano would have been heaps more enjoyable if I wouldn't have to wrestle the bike. Sure you can get on with it, but it's hard work. Avoiding that is the biggest creature comfort. Some people avoid going to those places as a means to avoid battling the overweight bike. To me that's the weirdest thing for a biking trip you can do. To me it's all about riding out of the way places away from the backpacking trails and rental cars etc and have a blast doing it. Not just for the scenary. What can't you bring with soft luggage you can with hard?

The cost thing is wrong in my view. GL is by some considered expensive, but try getting hard luggage including mounting hardware for that price. But with the GL all you need it that, no mounting hardware required and a typical roll closure bag behind it. Some roll closure bags for some stuff to go inside it. Pretty cheap I reckon.

The same compromise it true with tyres. I run only knobbies because I prefer to cater for the harshest terrain and find the little compromise on the road is negligible. I do the same on choice of luggage which to me makes the most sense for the affects on handling as explained earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 2 Jun 2011
gixxer.rob's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Back in Melb
Posts: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by big ben View Post
hi all, i've never travelled on a bike with hard panniers and being very new to this kind of thing just wondered how they will change the handling of the bike if at all.maybe soft panniers would be better ,if anyone can help that would be great thanks
Positioning of weight on the bike will change the handling. Hard or soft doesn't matter as long as it's static. If the extra weight moves then the handling will change. Unless of course you can get your panniers to move like a pillion.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 2 Jun 2011
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 4,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by farqhuar View Post
Yes, it's great to have a super light bike and premium price super light / super compact luggage but what are we really trying to achieve here?

International travellers are usually spending extended time on the road and require a few creature comforts.

So where do you compromise? Do you want the lightest bike with the lightest (most expensive) luggage so you can get the farthest off the beaten track in the shortest possible time, or do you want some creature comforts and are prepared to pay the price - going a little slower and taking a little more time?

Hmm, then again maybe I'm just getting old.
Ahhhh my good man ! I'm not sure which luggage you prefer but one of the main advantages of soft, is that it's also WAAAAAY cheaper !

And because it's soft, doesn't mean it has to be small. My soft bags must be about 80L combined. There is no luxury lost there.

They weigh 20kg less than my old M-Mules and fit the same stuff.
__________________
www.TouringTed.com
1994 XR650L
2001 NX650 Dominator.

BMW Dealer Technician
Welder/Fabricator

Ushuaia - Colombia 2007/8
UK- South Africa 2010/11
India 2012
Yukon 2012
S.E Asia 2014
U.K - Magadan 2015
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 2 Jun 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 109
I think I am having a déjà vu here, four pages of it...
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 2 Jun 2011
farqhuar's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oztralia
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* View Post
Ahhhh my good man ! I'm not sure which luggage you prefer but one of the main advantages of soft, is that it's also WAAAAAY cheaper !

And because it's soft, doesn't mean it has to be small. My soft bags must be about 80L combined. There is no luxury lost there.

They weigh 20kg less than my old M-Mules and fit the same stuff.
Hey Ted, it's not the weight or price of the bags I'm on about it - it's the premium price people pay for superlight weight tents and other gear that goes in the bags. I'm debating it on ADV at present where my argument that spending $350 on a tent to save a kilo in weight doesn't make any sense when my elcheapo tent cost a tenth of the price and does the job just as well (for me at least).
__________________
Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I need hard panniers Hindu1936 Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear? 6 20 Feb 2006 09:06
Hard Panniers for Transalp davidmc Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear? 6 5 Oct 2004 20:35
Panniers - Hard or Soft? NickG TRAVEL Hints and Tips 5 28 Jan 2004 18:58
Hard panniers Dave&Jane Equipment Reviews 8 18 Nov 2001 23:53
Hard Panniers ? Tony Robson Equipment Reviews 6 30 Oct 2001 03:50

 
 
 

NEW! HU 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar is now available! Get your copy now for some terrific travel inspiration!

HUGE, 11.5 x 16.5 inches, beautifully printed in Germany on top quality stock! Photos are the winning images from over 600 entries in the 9th Annual HU Photo Contest!

Horizons Unlimited 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar.

"The calendar is magnificent!"

"I just wanted to say how much I'm loving the new, larger calendar!"

We share the profit with the winning photographers. YOU could be in the HU Calendar too - enter here!


HU DVD Autumn Special!

Take 40% off Road Heroes Part 1 until October 31 only!

Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries two-up on a Harley); Dr. Greg Frazier (5 times RTW); Tiffany Coates (RTW solo female); and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).

The first in an exciting new series, Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers."Inspiring and hilarious!"

"I loved watching this DVD!"

"Lots of amazing stories and even more amazing photographs, it's great fun and very inspirational."

"Wonderful entertainment!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'HEROES' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:39.