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  #1  
Old 17 Nov 2006
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Wheel rims

Hi, I run 255/100 Michelin XZLs on my Landcruiser using 6.00J Hilux rims. I have noticed that the recommended rim is a 6.00G or 6.50H. Can anyone tell me the difference? Should I change to 6.50H rims? If I should, where can I get a set?

Thanks in advance

Ian
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  #2  
Old 17 Nov 2006
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If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Hello and welcome to the HUBB.

AFAIK the letter is the speed rating, it's the same as for tyres. Somewhere on the Web (or even here, the HUBB search brings up lots of information which can keep the repeated/newbie questions to a minimum) you'll find the speeds that correspond to the letters.
Wider rim = less wobbly for the same tyre size. I've seen 9 x 16s on 6 inch rims.You decide.

How about contributing to the forum by sharing your experience a little:

How long have you run the setup?
On what TLC?
With what mods?
With what load distributed where?
What sort of driving/terrain?
Why did you choose that setup?
Are you happy with it?
Who told you you were wrong?

Don't get me wrong, the members of this forum are all a great help (except me), and willing to give advice. But I believe a forum is about exchange, and your experience (good or bad) shared is knowledge gained for all.

If I have offended anyone I apologize, it must be Friday.
Happy trails
Luke
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  #3  
Old 17 Nov 2006
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Thanks for your reply Luke.

The H is definitely not the rim speed rating, I believe it is something to do with rim profile but am not sure what. I know tyres have lettered speed ratings but this is different.

To answer your other questions, I have been running the setup a few months on a 1996 HDJ80 with an OME 50mm lift and 30mm spacers at the rear. I had to fit spacers because the tyres were rubbing the body side of the wheel arch. I originally had front spacers as well but these caused rubbing so I have removed them.

I wanted to fit the tallest tyre I could without going too wide. The Michelins were the best I could find.

I mainly use the car for pay and play days but am currently getting it ready for a Sahara trip in January.

I know several people like 7.50's and 255/85's but in my opinion they look too small on a lifted 80 series Landcruiser. The 9.00's (which is what 255/100's are for those who don't know) fill the arches well. I initially had gearing and drive train worries but these were unfounded. The engine easily pulls the gearing and the drive train seems to be up to the additional strain.

My reason for thinking I have a problem is when running low pressure (1 bar) the outer bead pops very easily. They are easy to re-seat but it is a PITA. I started searching for solutions when I came across the recommended rim thing. Bremach also recommend 6.50H split rims on their trucks supplied with 255\100 XZL's. There has to be something in it.

Regards

Ian
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  #4  
Old 18 Nov 2006
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Welcome

Hi Ian

again welcome to the Hubb, excellent post by Luke - I couldn't agree with him more.

Can' really help with an answer, but would recommend that you try one of the Land Cruiser forums:

www.tlocuk.co.uk/

www.lcool.org

Hope this helps

ChrisC
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  #5  
Old 19 Nov 2006
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Hi Ian,
Welcome to the HUBB.....You were on the right track actually.....

The letters on the rim (J,H,G etc) refer to the shape of the rim contour - the shape of the area on the rim where the tyre bead sits - which should match the bead on your tyre - this is why your bead is coming off the rim - if Michelin recommend a 6.00G or 6.50H rim for the 255/100 16 then that is what you should be running them on - (I would go with a 6.50H for the 255 size IMO - just make sure the extra size/any offset does not make the tyres interfere with the arches)

J,JJ - car/4x4 rim
E,F,G,H - Commercial Vehicles rim

Having the correct rim contour to match the bead makes a big difference in the contact area between the tyre bead and the rim -and therefore how well the tyre stays on the rim - especially when aired down.

I looked at this a while ago when looking for new rims on a 101 running 9.00x16s

Id contact a commercial rim manufactor or Bremach directly and ask them whose rims they use- though stud pattern will probably be different?

Cheers
Grif
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Last edited by Gipper; 19 Nov 2006 at 22:38.
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  #6  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Rims;
Letter refers to the profile - cross section .. as people have said. Think it will include the area that the tyre goes into when mounting/demounting.

Number - refers to the width in inches between where the tyre bead would sit. So 6.00 will be 6 inches across the rim - inside dimension.

A wide rim will make the tyre side wall taper inwards to the smaller tread width (225 = 225 mm across the tyre tread). Makes deflated tyre less flexible than one fitted to a 'correct' matching of tyre and rim sizes.

A tyre will have a range of rim sizes .. not just 6.00 or 6.50 .. those would probably be the 'best' but there will be an upper and lower limit too. Check if your 'standard' rims fall with the 'acceptable' range for these tyres before you spend your money..... Ah reading further see your running large tyres .. so this bit does not apply to you .. Here in Australia there are people who make steel rims for 'off road' use .. you can get them in many sizes and they simply drill teh centre to suit. Might be best to see one of them who does a rim for the 110 .. if that is what the tyres nominally fit .. and see if they can do a rim to suit with a centre to suit your vehicle?

---
Notice how tyres are both imperail (9.00) and metric (225) where as rims are imperial only?
And tyres have an 'aspect ratio' Height to width [the /100 in the 225/100] .. they will also have a 'load ratio' [a doulbe digit number eg 87]- how many kilos they can carry .. at max pressure etc..
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Last edited by Frank Warner; 20 Nov 2006 at 02:09.
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  #7  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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One further thing - wheel diameters .. rims or tyres .. all in inches

While it looks like motorcycles and cars/trucks all share some common wheel diameters .. there is actually a small difference .. you can "force fit" one to the other but you run a risk.

In order to distinguish one from the other the 'width' of tyre sizes for motorcycles is all ways even 180, 190 , 210 etc .. ending in zero. While car/truck sizes all ways end in 5 .. 225, 195 etc..
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  #8  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Ian,

I have once used 6in rims from a Hilux in my LC80 with 232/85/16 tyres. No obvious problems with that. I suspect that with even wider aspect tyres the bulge could be a problem, particularly at low pressures, as more sideway surface is exposed to damage. Mangels make the rim in the correct size for your LC (white spoke). I bought mine in France but do try Frog Island or Footloose.
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  #9  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Thanks Grif, difficult to imagine you in a vehicle as old as a 101 You on the road? Preparing something?

Frank, are you sure the difference you mention can't simply be attributed to a simple difference in each manufacturer's interpretation of the EU standards on rim sizes?
I have found, for example, that 7.5 x 16 XZLs are FFF tight on my splits, where Hankooks just fall on (and slip round). As with many things, the tighter the better (until the time comes to take them off; I keep on meaning to buy those tyre pliers...)

Does anyone know if there is a lettering/marking system defining the offset of a rim? which is a relatively important thing to respect in terms of bearing loading and steering kickback/component loading.

Ian, you'll find tons of info confirming your choice of a tall tyre for sand use (or any other IMHO) and I agree wholly.

But (there's always one of those)

while I suppose it depends on how long you plan to be away, it's worth bearing in mind the availability of replacements in the countries you'll be visiting. Many people stick with the 235/85 because it can be exchanged with a 7.50 without working the diff too much, and both are more frequently available in North Africa.
I have read more than one travelog (all 101 overlanders) where the travellers have ended up driving virtually on the canvas (carefully) because they couldn't find 9 x 16 s anywhere during their transAf.

Someone PLEASE contradict me because I'm about to change vehicles and the vans on 9 x 16s look about the right size (trying to resist the Tatra temptation)

You have an advantage being on XZLs as they're very, very well thought out tyres, and some of it depends on religiously airing back up.

Just a thought.
Happy preparations
Luke
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  #10  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Thanks for all the info and welcomes.

I have sent emails to both the Bremach factory and UK importer requesting wheel info. It is amazing the amount of blank looks you get talking to tyre bays about rims other than J. At least I now know I am not completely mad.

As far as my trip goes, as long as I can get them to stay on the rims, I am not expecting tyre trouble. Two of the vehicles will be running XZLs on identical rims, each with a mounted spare, and we will have a supply of tubes just in case. We are only going for a couple of weeks.

If anyone else has experience running 255/100 XZLs on J rims please let me know. Likewise if anyone happens to have any spare 6.50H rims please let me know!!

Regards

Ian
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  #11  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Strength in numbers

Cool so you're off in a group and everybody's running 9 x 16s?

That's a brilliant setup.

Another suggestion, find a set of splits and run them with a beadlock (you'll swear a lot if ever you have to take it apart)

You never know, perhaps you might not need to air down as far as 1 bar on such a tall tyre. Although that depends on SO many factors (the Scott book has some good pointers).

Cheers,
Luke
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  #12  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Not everyone will be running 9.00x16's. There will be about 8 vehicles and 2 of us will be running the XZLs. I had thought about carrying an extra spare but they are huge and weigh about 40kg unmounted.

Staun beadlocks and my current rims are high on my list of solutions. I was just thinking (as you do) if I had 6.50H rims and beadlocks it would be just about perfect.

Ian
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  #13  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrubie

Staun beadlocks and my current rims are high on my list of solutions. I was just thinking (as you do) if I had 6.50H rims and beadlocks it would be just about perfect.
Ian,

If you remember my previous posts here and on ELCO, I used to have the Staun/Secondair beadlocks and frankly it was a complete waste of money. They are OK for a weekend trip but not for overlanding. If the tyre gets damaged, so will the inner tube. Also, the fabric tears and frays, leaving debris inside the tyre.

While getting an odd sized tyre is not easy, getting a replacement Staun tube is impossible. Finally, you will be left with a rim with a hole to plug.

Even if this gadget survives, taking it out and putting back again is not only time consuming, difficult and outside the remit of African mechanics. It will also upset the wheel balance. Better spend the money on top quality compressor, or if you have one already, on lightweight traction aids.

As for the split rims - they also have an issue with wheel balancing. They may be OK for a serises LR when 50mph seems like a breathtaking speed, but you will deny your 80 a serious advantage - doing long section on tarmac at 80mph in comfort.
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  #14  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Roman,

I was not aware that you had had trouble with Staun beadlocks. Apart from getting damaged when the tyre gets damaged and balance issues were there other problems? Did they actually beadlock?



Regards

Ian
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  #15  
Old 20 Nov 2006
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Ian,

They do work, as long as they remain intact. But the chance they will on a trip lasting a few thousand miles is minimal.
That's why I said the are OK for weekend offroading but not for Africa.
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