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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 23 May 2013
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super unleaded

hi there i thought super unleaded petrol had more ethonol in it so did not use it in my 1985 xt 600 , but a couple of weeks ago i was told this was not the case after checking this out and finding out super unleaded at the moment has no ethonol in it depending on your location in the uk ive been using it . the differance is amazing my xt is back to its punchy self , over the last 2 years or so using normal unleaded with ethonol in it the bike had started to feel weak and just not right , but now its back to its old self . check on the web for location and brand bp/ mobil/total etc for ethonol content . give it a go it is more expencive but i think mpg is better using it . zigzag
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Old 23 May 2013
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Yep, here in the states even super or premium is having ethanol, some places not. I found mine doesn't like ethinal either, one of the issues I had with hard starting.
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Old 23 May 2013
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I experimented with use of E10 labelled fuel and what I think was non-ethanol fuel, purchased in France, a while ago and I got about 2-3 less MPG.
This is a well known fact concerning the use of ethanol blended fuels; there is a list of the main disadvantages of ethanol when used in fuel in the link below and there is no good news, especially for old engines, which are attacked in many ways, as listed.
Protect Your Vehicle Against Harmful Impact of Ethanol Blended Petrol | Frost Auto Restoration Techniques

Wiki has a similar list of disadvantages;-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_..._fuel_mixtures
I am surprised that this subject is not discussed in the HUBB in more detail; ethanol blending is not going away, any time soon.
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Old 23 May 2013
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Now there is one thing I was wondering about with ethanol in these older bikes would be the impact on the valve seats, among others. I know they are made for unleaded(at least the age of mine)which was the main problem at first but I wonder how much washing of lube or pre-detonation(#1 problem with ethanol, next is attacking rubber seals), even an almost undetectable amount, can shorten the life of some parts.
Around here some stations are pushing up to 15% of that junk, is there an additive that can be put in the tank, just as an extra helper for protection to the internals, aside from making sure there is no carbon buildup that can hold heat to ignite the ethanol prematurely. I have used Zeps engine treatment in my truck and it cleaned up the carbon, but I don't know if it would be wise to use in the bike motor.
For now I have a Shell that appears to not have any "tainted" premium, but it would be nice to have to just use that gas.
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Old 23 May 2013
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I have found the few pence difference between ethanol fuel and 98 ron non ethanol to be cost effective as my Enfield gets significantly better mileage using 98 grade. as does my old Fiat car.
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Old 23 May 2013
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hi as jjrider states i think ethonol leads to the old xts starting bad , mine was bad from cold but when hot no problem . the more you read about ethonol it seems very bad for our bikes , lets just hope super unleaded stays free from the stuff for as long as possabal . it just makes you wonder what great addative is next on the cards , what happened to JUST PETROL and good sparky stuff too . zigzag
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Old 24 May 2013
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The problem with ethanol is particularly acute for older engines as has been discussed above. There is a lot of information concerning the detrimental effects on engines and systems, particularly in the classic car community. The British government has recognised that at the moment about 20% of vehicles on the road would be adversely affected if the ethanol content was raised to the levels encouraged by the EU, a refreshingly frank approach. There are treatments that can be added to unleaded petrol containing ethanol which are designed to combat the ill effects. This link is to one - Millers Oils EPS ethanol protection additive.
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Old 26 May 2013
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In the UK, we are following the EU's plan to make all petrol E10 or E15 before too long. When I had a Triumph Sprint (plastic tank, prone to expanding out of shape when filled with ethanol-added fuel long term) I did a bit of research, trying to find a UK supplier who didn't add ethanol. I wrote to the customer service addresses of all the big suppliers. Only one replied: Murco. They assured me that most of their petrol (Midlands and SW, including Wales) was ethanol-free for the time being, but even they were being forced to go to E5 by the end of 2013.

Luckily, I have a Murco garage about 2 miles away from my house, so I have bought Murco ever since, even though I no longer have the Sprint.

There are several ethical objections to using ethanol as a fuel, too - huge energy inefficiency, wasteful of water resources, and of course the idea of using a food crop as motor fuel when people elsewhere are starving.

Here is a post I did on the topic a couple of years ago:

Going fast, getting nowhere: Ethanol - evil stuff
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Old 26 May 2013
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Possibly like many others I never considered what was in the petrol, I run a 2003 600e and don't know if this makes a difference to potential problems of ethanol. However next fill up will try the super unleaded and see if that makes a difference in performance/ economy. I would image it would take a few tanks to notice any change.
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Old 26 May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtcommuter View Post
I would image it would take a few tanks to notice any change.
No, not for the MPG testing that I mention above anyway. I ran the tank nearly to empty in each case and then refilled with the different fuel - the difference in MPG is what I experienced between each set of tank fillings.
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Old 26 May 2013
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hi there guys im now on my 4th tank of super unleaded and have been to my local bikers cafe this afternoon and i am over the moon ive got back the xt i bought 5 years ago , try a couple of full tank fulls if the difference is like my xt you will be a happy bunny . take care zigzag
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Old 28 May 2013
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I tried a tankful of super unleaded this weekend. I don't know if it was all in the mind, but the bike did seem a little livelier.

I also contacted Yamaha to ask if it was safe to use petrol with ethanol in the bike, particularly as it appeared that the concentration probably would be increasing to 10% in the near future.


This is the response:


"Thank you for your enquiry regarding fuel for your 2001 XT600E,

Yamaha recommend to use Regular unleaded 95 octane on the above unit, but bio ethanol gasoline can be used in this motorcycles, if the Ethanol level is 10% or less.

We hope the information provided may be of some assistance.

Regards,

Gary


Technical Service
Service Department

After Sales Division

__________________________________________________ _

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Surrey KT13 0UZ


Telephone:
Fax:
E-mail:
Website:
+44 (0) 1932 358000
+44 (0) 1932 358030
tech.service@yamaha-motor.co.uk
www.yamaha-motor.co.uk


I remember that some time ago I was told that because super unleaded burns at a higher temperature that premium, there was a danger that the valves would burn out in engines designed to use lower octane premium. I don't know if this holds true, though.



So, I guess you pays your money and you takes your chance.
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