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  #1  
Old 28 Mar 2004
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Oil line worries

Can anyone help? I have previously managed to strip the thread on one of the lower oil line flange screws on my 2001 TT600R. I had helicoiled it but now the repair is pulling out, I'm off trans Canada/U.S.A. in a month and I don't want to be constantly riding with an oil leak paranoia! Any suggestions? Cheers guys.
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  #2  
Old 31 Mar 2004
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What I would do is, but I am sure that lots of people would disagree, the following:
1. Re-helicoil it, but make sure to glue the coil in place. There will be some type of suitable glue in the Loctite range.
2. When putting in the bolt, smear it with Loctite 3460, a two-component epoxy putty.
3. Do not even think of removing the oil line again, there is no reason for that other than removing the engine from the frame.

Succes!
Auke

Remark: I do not own stocks in Loctite :-)
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  #3  
Old 31 Mar 2004
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Thanks for the advice, but on a TT600R the manual tells you to undo this oil line for an oil change. I don't think you can undo the main oil drain bolt without removing this flange anyway.
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  #4  
Old 16 Jun 2007
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Question Here we go!

Hi Leigh and everyone else who talks about TT600Rs on here,
After all the other work (see other threads if you don't know what this refers to), the bike is running OK (touch the proverbial wood and whatever else).

HOWEVER, I have the same thing going on at the bottom of my engine as described in this thread from over 3 years ago - what goes around, comes around! Probably the same bolt? - top right hand i.e. slightly higher than the one on the left. This is of concern because there are only two bolts holding the oil-line in place and, as said in an earlier post, it has to be dis-mantled to drain the oil (which is how I found this problem).

So, what is the best solution for what is, I guess, a stripped thread (the bolt rotates easily) in a location that needs to be clean of swarf etc so that it does not get into the oil?
Maybe the Loctite that can be dismantled (such as the one I used for my camshaft bolts) s
- is this the answer or something more permanent?

Dave

ps Quite agree, the sump oil drain plug (also removed at every oil change) won't come off without removing this oil-line first - what a design!!!
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  #5  
Old 16 Jun 2007
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Don't panic!

The bike survived the 8,500 mile trip two up with luggage no problem. I helicoiled it carefully and loctited the insert in place, then used a slightly shorter stainless cap screw. The threads were crap on mine but the repair is fine, you hardly need to tightenit at all (8Nm?). The o-ring would probably seal against the flange OK with one screw anyway.
The bike is still going strong although I used my TTRE on the last big trip. Interestingly on the TTRE the threads look like they already have an insert! Just remember to go gently and make sure the screws are not cross threaded before you tighten them, I find it helps to push the oil line up and to the right to fully align the holes when starting the screws off.
Also be careful with the oil bleed screw on the filter cover it strips easy and again only requires a little tightening. (If it looks dodgy, buy a new cover,screw and copper washer-about £10.00 total.)
All this has been gleaned from having three of the buggers to maintain ( sixteen oil and filter changes on the last trip for instance!).
Having said that, I wouldn't swap them, I didn't meet one person an my last trip who hadn't had major bike trouble. I didn't even get a puncture in 23,500 miles ( the wife did though).
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  #6  
Old 16 Jun 2007
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I think I am gonna have the same problem in the future on my TTRE its only done 7000 kms and when I changed the Oil when i bought the bike the dam pipe didnt seem to line up proper on refitting it seemed a bit short I eventually managed to get the las bolt in but it was under tension and might of cross threaded a bit.

Seemed like it was a two man job just fitting a little pipe, first time I went off road on the bike the clock Binnacle I think its called broke away leaving the speedo clock dangling about closely followed by the speedo cable snapping the back light is forever stopping working too.

I love the bike but dont think its one of Yamahas finest creations.
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  #7  
Old 16 Jun 2007
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Thumbs up

Leigh,
Many thanks for that very quick & detailed reply and glad to hear that there was a happy ending for the oil-line problem of your original post (I am trying to imagine doing that distance with two up and with luggage!!).

I don't have a helicoil kit (and have never used one) so in this case I think I will go for a dealer fix, but I now know exactly what I want them to do.

As a point, why does the new bolt need to be shorter - is the helicoil shorter than the original thread? Also, does the helicoil completely match the original specification of bolt or is it to be expected to vary (pitch of thread or even diameter etc)?

I've been hoping that the one bolt would hold the pipe and so far it has done so, but there is a slight oil weep showing there and, of course, it is not a good idea to rely on a single bolt when it is designed for two, especially considering what it holds in place.

I am very gentle with the oil bleed screw - it even looks fragile! I hardly go beyond finger tight to start and then just tighten a very small amount if oil does show - so far no problem there and I have tightened that one a few times now.

Thanks again for your invaluable advice based on real-life experience.

Panzer,
My oil-line pipe is OK for length - it flexes more or less horizontally courtesy of the flexible pipe built in further along (toward the oil tank); although this allows the fixed length of pipe to flex enough to align with its two bolt holes it does not allow clearance of the sump drain plug because all of that section of pipe is continuously "solid"; if it was flexy pipe as far as the drain plug it would make a lot more sense to me (especially when the manual says to remove the drain plug first - can't be done on my bike). My point is that I agree with leigh, you have to tug at that pipe pretty hard to get it into correct alignment for both bolts.

I haven't had the binnacle problem but I haven't been off-road either - I have read elsewhere about that problem, so you are not alone (might have been on another website). I think some people have ditched the speedo and now use a digital version which I believe are made for enduro riding.

I have had a blown tail bulb though (at least they are cheap) - forgot about that until you posted!!

Thanks for the info,

Dave
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  #8  
Old 17 Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Panzer,
My oil-line pipe is OK for length - it flexes more or less horizontally courtesy of the flexible pipe built in further along (toward the oil tank); although this allows the fixed length of pipe to flex enough to align with its two bolt holes it does not allow clearance of the sump drain plug because all of that section of pipe is continuously "solid"; if it was flexy pipe as far as the drain plug it would make a lot more sense to me (especially when the manual says to remove the drain plug first - can't be done on my bike). My point is that I agree with leigh, you have to tug at that pipe pretty hard to get it into correct alignment for both bolts.

I haven't had the binnacle problem but I haven't been off-road either - I have read elsewhere about that problem, so you are not alone (might have been on another website). I think some people have ditched the speedo and now use a digital version which I believe are made for enduro riding.

I have had a blown tail bulb though (at least they are cheap) - forgot about that until you posted!!

Thanks for the info,

Dave
I am still using the original speedo and what is left of the binnacle thing I just have it fixed with cable ties now, So I would recommend people take some of them out with them, I reckon I could of saved the clock binnacle before it broke completely had I took cable ties out or maybe a roll of insulation tape, I will be doing next time.

Its the bulb holder I have problems with I have pulled one of the prongs out a bit so the bulb fits tighter in the holder but it still makes a bad connection and stops working first bump I go over.

I shouldn't complain I really like the bike, I chose this over a WR because of less maintenance very good road manners and electric start of course my budget wouldn't extend to an Electric start WR450 anyway.

Oh and I was out on top of the Pennines on the Lancashire Yorkshire border with two mates one on a CRFx 450 and a WR450 and my bike did everything there's did but it sure felt bloody heavy at the end of an hard days riding.
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  #9  
Old 17 Jun 2007
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The black plastic plate for the speedo broke on mine and my mates bike after some tough of roading in Wales, the part is fairly cheap though so I just put a new one on. It hasn't broken after all the hideous roads of my last trip though.
Regarding the oil line, I used a "RE-COIL" brand insert. You carefully drill out the hole to the size in the instructions ( I used a block of wood as a depth stop). You then tap out the hole with the supplied tap, clean out any swarf or dirt then insert the M6 threaded insert with some Loctite. You are then supposed to break off the tang from the bottom end of the insert but as it was I blind hole I couldn't get it to snap off- hence using a shorter screw to only thread into the 7mm ish of threaded insert (plenty to hold it).
Practice will allow you to push the oil line it to position where the flange holes align and not have trouble with the screws.
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  #10  
Old 17 Jun 2007
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Thanks again to both of you!

I read a tip elsewhere about using a bit of grease while cutting new threads in awkward cases like this with a "blind end". The swarf sticks to the grease is the general idea and with regular cleaning while cutting, no swarf should end up in the oilways.

I shall look out for breaking bits - plastics etc going by your experiences to date!!

Dave
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  #11  
Old 17 Jun 2007
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I will price them binnacle things up then cheers.
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  #12  
Old 19 Jun 2007
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If I get the oil feed line problem right you're talking about the little o-ring flange that is kept in place by two 6mm bolts?

Get rid of the Helicoil and fit a TimeSert instead. It fits into the same thread as the helicoil but is a solid insert (!) and is press - fitted into place (!!!) to prevent it from coming out.
Thousand times better than Helicoil rubbish.
Unfortunately the Time Sert tool sets are very expensive but many bike shops have them. Or check the local yellow pages for "Thread repairs"

Helicoils tend to cause problems in anything but "fit once and never touch it again" applications.
Time Sert is far superior without needing more space (it is an identical thread as used for the same size Helicoil).
Time Sert is IMHO the only solution for stripped sump plugs and spark plugs.
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  #13  
Old 19 Jun 2007
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That's the one Lecap - so with one bolt stripped it is a bit of a problem; just one bolt holding on the oil feed pipe at the bottom, out of sight and out of mind usually.

I've had a look on ebay for "Time Sert":- not available right now in the UK search but they are from the States. The prices are reasonable for general repair kits; the one that is expensive is for spark plugs on a Ford (don't know why Ford should be so much more).

eBay.co.uk - time sert items at low prices

If I have read all of the bumph correctly, an advantage of this system is that it keeps exactly the same dimensions of the original thread which is useful for working where access is tight.

I see that there are also manufacturers of similar systems advertising in the ebay links and these are made in the UK - I guess this will come down to whatever system my local workshops use and recommend, because this is one job that I don't fancy doing myself; I am "betting" that I would not have much use for a kit with, say, 5-10 inserts in the future.

The good thing is that it reinforces my attention to detail (torque values in the manual) when I am doing work on the bike!!

Dave
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  #14  
Old 21 Jun 2007
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Can Time inserts be used after helicoiling?

So does anyone know if one of these Time inserts can be used if an attempt to Helicoil has been unsucessful, ie: is the thread that the helicoil kit cuts to accept the Helicoil the same size and pitch as the one the Time Inset uses?

Thanks

Mark
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  #15  
Old 21 Jun 2007
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They also make oversize timeserts. Look up the external thread size on your helicoil repair to see what is required. ++ BIG-SERT ++
Good Luck, Steve
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