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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 9 Mar 2008
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Angry How screwed am I?

I am planning on taking this bike through MOT and road-worthy by end of March 08, and just doing what needs to be done for now.
So pulled off rear wheel, and was happy to see the the drum brakes looked fantastic, all very clean etc. Axle true, no cracks, what are those triangular rubber bits for and how important are they? mine are reasonably worn but not too badly probably fine, but made a note to replace in the future. Then put wheel back on and swore at chain whilst doing so and wondered how on earth you replace the chain without breaking it .

Anyway noted that I need to replace all chain rollers as well, and then poking around saw the front sprocket



The "Repair" by previous owner

How screwed am I?-sprocketf0315.jpg

I am really, really F.F..F...F......F..rustrated because this was done where there was an Arc welder, hence bunches of electicity, and would have access to post office and supplies to get the thing replaced. I cant even express my feelings for Mr Fg Bt St for brains Dumb As previous owner, because this was a freebie!

So just how Fed am I here?

It looks like you cannot pull the counter shaft straight out, and I will now need to discover how to access the counter shaft through blasted brain surgery.

Do you brilliant fellows have any secret tips to do this???

Looked at Cylmer manual...

Crap, I have to remove the whole engine.

and split the crank case.

and get the tool to pull the crankshaft

and I cant (according to the manual) use a hammer to "gently" slide it back in, which by then I would very much like to do

Deffinitely going to need

Unless there is another way to get at it without splitting the crank case I will take it to a dealer to do for me after the MOT. install new sprockets, front and rear as well as new chain.

In the words of Blackadder:
Fety Fing Fk Fk

Oh and whilst I am at it, any one care to give me some input on the perfect (Africa overland) sprocket size? for suitable for motorways 60-80mph and also for desert sand/rocky hillclimbs, or do I just get two. The on at the moment has 15 (bending) teeth and has assisted me in exceeding the Frensh speedlimit by 15mph, but I would prefer something that give me more control at slower speeds

Cheers for any help, I have now sat down and about to crack open a Boddingtons.



did you hear it?


I appologise to those who may be sensitive to censored smilies
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  #2  
Old 9 Mar 2008
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on a scale from one to ten, one being slightly inconvenienced and ten requiring a new bike i'd say you are a solid five or so.
Two options:
1 Grind off the welds and weld on a new sprocket and sell the whole mess to an unsuspecting victim ( not recomended)

2 pull the engine split the cases and fit a new countershaft

Good luck
Lar
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  #3  
Old 9 Mar 2008
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I understand you, being in the same condition with a spare engine bought on ebay. Instead of doing the right work, previous owner decided for the dirty one.

There also an issue, probably now your sprocket, after the welding, is not totally straight. I have a third option, not an easy one. Remove the sprocket cutting it with a circular saw (the ones to be used on a drill) leaving enough material to cut it later with a dremel reconstructing its original shape.
It's a "clock shop work", I know.... having nothing to loose, i will try to do it in the next months too
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  #4  
Old 9 Mar 2008
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If I remember correctly in your previous posts ,you said you were going to need to do some engine work .Well now you have another job on your hands thanks to DPO butchery .
IF the rest of the bike is OK then it might be worth spending the money and having a proper repair done at a dealer , a friend of mine had to have his XR650L split to replace a worn out [ after 11,000 km - please note Mr Honda - quality ?] countershaft .
He pulled the engine and left the rest to a dealer - cost about $250CDN .

Don't be tempted to grind off the sprocket and weld on another one , you'll more than likely destroy the seal .
You should be able to pin down the dealer to a fixed price for the job , then you can decide if it's worth doing the repair in addition to the other work you need to do .
If you don't have much mechanical ability it might be better to just sell the bike , your conscience can decide; where , to whom and for how much .
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  #5  
Old 9 Mar 2008
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Conscience and morals wont loose me any sleep at all.

I am gaining an understanding of what the bikes that are being broken for parts on Ebay are like, ie avoid like the plague!

I was very correctly advised to do the bike up as best and cheaply as possible and sell it on, then buy a 1996, Xt600 4tp and start again.
I would also advise this course of action.
But I am not going to do that I am still going to persue the route that I am on at the moment to have a 21 year old overland bike.

You are correct I have had a few issues, and was looking to see if I can replace the whole lower part of the engine.
Before dropping and splitting I will try to see if I can grind off the welding and see if there is enough left to bolt on the sprocket propperly.

Anyone dropped the engine and done the crankshaft by themselves without a full workshop?

Any tips or advice?

Thanks G
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  #6  
Old 9 Mar 2008
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Hi
xt600 i presume?
I guess that there is a reason why that sprocket is welded so it probaly is waste of time trying to loose it nicely.
Splitting the cases,yes it can be done without any special tools, only magneto needed some attention bc its very tight and when it comes loose it POPS OF literally(straight to the concrete floor...)not sure if you need to remove it in this case anyway.
Assembly is much easier with some heat/cold. crankshaft to freezer and cases to owen or something(i used heat blower,when fingers got too hot it was ready to assemble) This way crank just slides in.
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  #7  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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Boddingtons: Ahhhh thats the cream alright

It is an XT600 indeed: 87 tenere 1vj.

Following a few s I have come to accept that I will have to pull it appart. I have prepared my Attic for mechanical work. Will get it through MOT on 20th then strip down and carry engine into attic
As I am allocating tasks to do in certain time frames, I will also remove everything from Rear subframe to prepare for sanding down patches, for derust treatment and then repainting.

I will then dissasemble crankcase, and replace crankshaft with new shaft and gears. Rather than trying to heat the gears and cool the shaft to remove, just need to find a suitable replacement, and I know you guys are going to tell em to buy both sets so that they mesh.

Once I have seen the inside of the engine I may well be happier, I am hoping that the Numptee who cocked it up by welding the sprocket to the shaft did so because he couldnt be bothered to take apart the crankcase, hence there being a chance that this is not bed by his interference.

I have now noticed that the electrical harness to the lights, starter and guages have all been cut then re attached very heathrobinson style, so I can presume that this bike has had a different Tachometer and Odometer, so I have no idea how many miles it has done, probably alot more than I thought and was told!

Prudent use of a drill may be in order to wind it forward to Zero again! Or perhaps I shall do this after return from HU meeting in June after full engine overhaul: rebore/sleeve, bearings, cam & rings (when i will also be doing a decent job on the frame)

Thanks for input.

G
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  #8  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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Wouldn't you rather spend your free prep time researching the countries you are headed to

Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 08:36.
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  #9  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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I can't understand why you want to MOT the bike and THEN start working on it .
You don't even know the state of the innards of the engine , it might not be worth rebuilding .
You will for sure have to replace the countershaft , the welding will have destroyed the heat treatment of the shaft and more than likely buggered the splines .
Even if the engine can be fixed cheaply ,you will still waste several weeks of MOT coverage whilst you work on the bike .
Bodged wiring and inaccurate speedo readings are irrelevent really , wiring is easily fixed and your speedo will probably pack in on the journey, so don't fret that.

If the engine is a mess , let eBay be your chum -sell the bike piecemeal.

Patrick has made some damn good points , the main one one being that you will rely entirely on this bike . If you can't rebuild it to as good as, or better than, new , then it's better to not even start IMHO.
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  #10  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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Would you rather ride or screw...?

Thats an easy answer

Mollydog & Dodger, thank you. As mentioned above you are not the first to tell me this. And for future readers, I agree with their coments

The journey is not about the destination but what you do getting there.
I personaly would not take the most modern bike on a journey like this: North Horr to Garissa, follow Tana delta down to coast, then in to Mombasa try to follow that on Google earth.
One hard bump and you loose electronic circuitry...
After the journey your bike will have devalued enormously whereas an old bike will not have devalued,
All those plastics and the price to replace them at the end
Then there are the associated costs,leaving 1.5X the value of the bike in the UK doesnt meet well with my finances / travel plans

Why am I plundering ahead anyway?
I have a 59 series two Landrover that works as a support vehicle for equipment and staff when I am on Safari in an 84 Range rover.
I know that the old XT600 is the right mix for me, (and incidently I am older than 22) it has reliability, carrying capacity, cheap on insurance carnets etc, easy to maintain and if monitored regularly will not cause hassels.

Plus if I do this work now I will not be concerned if I have to do something similar in the field. Lets call it practice, and practice makes perfect, just like riding or...

MOT is easy peasey, New Clutch Cable, Carb rubbers, clean throttle cables through, grease nipples and replace the oil cooler O rings. Everything [Other than electric start] works fine, Oh and need mirrors.
Why do it now? To ensure that it is running for tax renewal

As to researching route, Ah hell everyones done it before me , I'll just follow tracks4africa and make the odd adjustment here and there.

Two trips
Little one 2010 two months: Post bikes to Kenya, ride wiggling around East Africa, all the unknown bits, Good fun in masaai tribal-lands with motorbikes and lions Play in the Chalbi, climb Mt Kili then down via East coast of Malawi to tigershark diving in mozambique, onto SA and post bikes to London.

Big one London to...:
Either down West coast across various deserts and down into Sudan/Uganda onto East African coast. then over Lake Tanzania and wiggle south through mud and stuff, turn left to Vic falls then over through to Bots Namibia
I do want to Avoid Egypt and Nigeria, but other than that keep it simple, and take a few breaks along the way.

Thanks for the cautionary advice, it was good and correct to say.
However I am ignoring it and would like to have input on the task ahead.

Thanks G
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  #11  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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Ah so Grasshopper !

NOW I understand !
You own an old Landie , therefore the power of logic will not work upon you .
You have transcended the real world logic and supplanted it with a blind stubborness known only to those who tinker with idiosyncratic old classics .

You will mend that Yam at all costs !
I know where you are coming from , good luck my friend .

Dodger .
[ a fellow sufferer ]
'58 Series1 , 65 Series 11A , Too many 30 + yr old bikes as well .
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  #12  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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Plan B is still available to you

Quote:
Originally Posted by photographicsafaris View Post

I was very correctly advised to do the bike up as best and cheaply as possible and sell it on, then buy a 1996, Xt600 4tp and start again.
I would also advise this course of action.


Thanks G
You can learn a lot about the engine from doing the work on the 1VJ and then get a newer XT

Your MOT station/garage will be one more contact for advice as you do this work, but you could also SORN the bike (instead) until it is back on the road.
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  #13  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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Bad, but extremely so.

Depending on whether the bike is worth it, it is not that difficult to install a new shaft.
When you split the cases, the RH crankshaft bearing comes loose from the RH crankcase. all shafts except for the crankshaft can be taken out of the LH case without special tools. Just leave crankshaft, magnetoes as they are.
So, strip topend, split cases, and the countershaft comes out, if you have not forgotten to first grind away the weld that now fixes the sprocket to the shaft.
Of course you will need new cilinder gaskets, some O-rings and obviously a new shaft etc.

Removing the endless chain from the bike: remove wheel, undo the connection of shock to monocross lever system. Remove large swingarm pivot bolt. Swivel rearfork backwards ... take out chain.

Auke
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  #14  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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I'm thinking that since you are doggedly committed to this specific bike, you should look for a good/used/running engine and swap it in for the old one. This way you can tinker/repair the old one to your heart's content while you have the capability to run the bike.
If/when you get the original engine back up to speed, you can sell off the spare (or re-build it as a new spare).
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  #15  
Old 10 Mar 2008
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Thumbs up

Hi
This is not the first time i've seen the front sprocket welded on, if you have the patiance it can be repaired in place, first grind the weld off and remove the old sprocket, then take a fine needle file and file the remaining weld from between the spline, you can use a hack saw blade to clean the slot for the locking washer.
The shaft is made of hardened steel the weld is only mild and if care is taken can be cleaned up. It took me a day to sort out a sprocket that had been welded on one of my 1VJ engines.
Just take your time. Hope this is of some help Skip.
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