XT660Z or F800GSA?

[Wheelie]

I have been given out my share of adive on choice of bikes, including the models listed. Now that it is my turn, I am suffering from a chronic decision disorder.

Some background
I've ridden a classic Vespa 200cc scooter from Cape town to Nairobi, and from Spain to Guinea Bissau - the latter while having a fully kitted BMW F600GS Dakar as well as Yamaha WR250F in the garage. Much of these scooter trips were done on pistes and offroad.

I did the scootering for the love of Vespas and its community, the love for the inferior, and for proving two points - namely that any vehicle is capable of undertaking just about any overlanding adventure, regardless of the advenutrers experience level - but also to prove that "capable" and "suitable" are two completely different things, and that experience also makes a difference. My advice - if you plan to go RTW - take the most suitable bike you can afford and screw everything else.

The first scooter adventure was my first overlanding trip ever, and I was a newbie mechanic at best and my bike experience was limited to street bikes and mopeds. I was joined by another Vespa rider who had this as her first ride on public roads, two weeks after getting her licence. The later of the scooter adventures was the 9000 km Budapest to Bamako enduro rally - unsupported, carrying all tools, parts and gear for the entire trip - joined with two other Vespa riders that had no prior overlanding experience.

In between these two adventures, and after, I've had several other motorcycle adventures, far and near - but with far more suitable bikes, like the Dakar.

I am now in my mid fourties and couldn't care any less to prove a point of any kind - I've got the notches I need. I have no greater loyalty for any brand, and my vanity only has a slight impact on choice. I want the best tool for the job that wrenching time and budget allows. I am also 186 cm tall and weigh 85 kgs. I still consider myself a novice rider. I've found that I sucked at the motocross track as well as the enduro trails when I had the WR250 - with ten year old kids with casts on one leg, flying over my head waving at me lying in the dirt (having gone over the handle bars for the n'th time in the day). I don't have the confidence to ride fast offroad, but I am confiden't enough to tackle most types of surfaces and obstacles - at a slow speed.

Needs
I want a bike that is pretty much adventure ready and adapt it as I go along. I am looking for a bike that is 30/70 road biased - though I don't really like the description. "Biased" doesn't necessarily say much about how "suitable" the bike is - for neither offroad or onroad. A classic Vespa scooter for instance is 99% road biased, but compared to a offroad biased dual sport, it still comes up way short in every way. It is a motorized shopping trolley.

I live in Norway where I'll do most of my riding, and 90% of it on tarmac. The top speed limit on the highways is 110 km/h, and there is not much of that to be found either. Much of the road network is narrow and bendy, often with variable degree of tarmac quality (frost hieve, pot holes, etc). A Vespa scooter would do fine - I've done a lot of it.

I will also use the bike for a 45 min daily commute into Oslo, where my newer twist and go 300cc Vespa scooter with a tall windscreen is superiror in any way to any motorcycle (I would however sell it as I have more than enough machines to maintain as is). Besides that I will do a few 1-2 week long trips in my own country every season, as well as attending the occational slow paced offroad event - for a bit of fun. I will also do the occational adventure to countries like Iceland and Marocco, where I will do mostly pistes and some offroad (I highly recommend both countries btw). I will also have a few motorcycle holidays arround Europe - mostly on backroads with tarmac, but also some gravel roads and some shorter offroad bits.

I am not an agressive rider and tend to take it easy to ensure that the adventure isn't cut short because my bike or myself gets broken to pieces. I am also often joined by inexperienced riders who sets the pace. I like my rides to be between 20-60 kms/day - or 3-6 hours - but can endure far more. I don't need to go "all out" neither on or off road, but want a bike I can manage with a loaded bike with confidence on fairly rugged terrain. I don't want a bike that can struggle its way trough the gritty bits, but one where I can also enjoy the ride - even if only at aslow pace.

Highway riding for me is simply a liason/transport stage that I suffer my way through - doing 1000 km days just to get it over with - meaning crossing Europe in 2-3 days. I've done it on the F650GS Dakar, which was uncomfortable to say the least - but manageable for a few days (maxing at 130-140 kms/h before the panniers caused the bike to loose stability, wind putting a strain on my body, etc. Having a bike that is comfortable for long rides at 140+ kms/h is not a priority. Long range is not a huge priority, but nice.

I may be doing some two-up in the first year or two - until my GF gets her own bike - but nothing major - maybe a week at most.

The RTW or any other lenghty adventure, and the purchase of the complementary bike, is put on hold for atleast five years - due to kids. The inbetween bike I'll buy now can have many compromises.

Bikes
My dream bike is a 2020 Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports with the DCT and wheelie control, but I can't find it in me to spend the money with the needs I have now. Maybe I'll get a used one in four ot five years and trade in the one I buy now.

I also really like the Husqvarna 701 Enduro, but find that I would have to spend 5.000,- USD to get it the way I would want it. I would never consider it stock. I can't however muster the depreciation I would have to endure from all the mods - especially when the solution would be overkill for my needs in the forseable future. I'm not kitting a bike now for needs I may have several years from now.

The F650GS Dakar - I find them over priced relative to newer options, and they are not turn key ready in my opinion - it's wind protection for instance stinks. Unless I got one 30% under the average asking price, with all the har panniers and a tall windscreen allready in place - I wouldn't consider one again. It looks and feels aged, it is cumbersome to service, the reliability is so-so, the maintenance costs relative to purchase price are high. I wouldn't be too worried to take it RTW though, and less so compared to many other options - but for an RTW I would either increase my budget or go for something simpler.

The Yamaha XT660Z Tenere. I really love how it looks. All my research indicates: very high reliability, turn key adventure ready (ofcourse with room for improvement). My main concern here is weight, bike height, top heavyness, vibrations and seat comfort - though I have no idea to what degree this will have an impact relative to the other options. When people say it is tall and top heavy - how much will it matter? I've sat on it and can comfortably put my feet on the ground - but would I feel comfortable off road? I know I wouldn't spend money on having it lowered as it probebly wouldn't be the bike of choice for a long adventure. One thing in particular that makes the yammy really attractive is that the top contender, the F800GS Adventure, will cost me 50% more. I would not be worried to take the yammy RTW.

The F800GS Adventure is my other top contender. I like the way it looks, though I find the look a bit dated compared to the Tenere and the Africa Twin - but the difference isn't that big to make a large impact on my decision. I am certain that it will be the most comfortable and suitable bike for 90% of the conditions that I will ride - but by how much? I assume, but have no idea, that it will be slightly less enjoyable offroad - but more than capable. What puts me off is the cost. I would also have concerns taking this bike on very long adventures due to reliability (many issues have been ironed out since the bike was born, but is is still not as reliable as a Yamaha or Honda.

Suzuki V-Strom will be a good bike for most of my needs. But, vanity kicks in - it doesn't provide me with the adventure bike feel. Much can be done to compensate for its shortcomings in this department, but only so far - and I wouldn't be willing to spend the money. It is a sensible bike - one that doesn't make my heart beat. I would conscider one if I found one at half the cost of a Tenere.

In short - it stands between the Yammie or the Bimmer. I keep going back and forth. I am fairly certain it will be one of those two. If I was to run out and buy one this minute, it would probably be the Yammie, because it is cheaper and the choice feeling so uncertain. Given a bit more time, I might go for the Bimmer. Which do you think I should get, and why?

[Jay_Benson]

The 50% price difference is a lot of fuel....

[AnTyx]

Honestly, I think your best choice here is to keep the Vespa for the commutes, and rent a dirt bike wherever you fly to for your holidays.

A 70/30 road bike won't scratch your offroad satisfaction itch, and will annoy you for most of your bike usage time with its inevitable crudeness.

Want something shiny & beautiful to keep some joie de vivre in your fourties? Get a Vitpilen or a Ducati Scrambler.

[Grant Johnson]

I think the two bikes are in somewhat of a different class - there's a big difference between the two, big single vs twin, and that's a question only you can answer. The BMW is a better two up bike, the Yamaha better and lighter solo.

I'd have to say go for the Yamaha from your description - it's cheaper by far, therefore less painful a purchase, and it's value will be more appreciated. And cheaper to just sit when not using it, you won't feel so guilty. And finally, easier to sell. Oh yeah, and leaves some funds sitting safely in the bank to put towards the next choice after the Yamaha!

There will always be another one... Or as someone once asked, "Why do you have five bikes?" Answer - "Because I just sold one".

[*Touring Ted*]

I think the bikes are pretty much the same size and weight. I've ridden both. The XT660Z is no lightweight. That was it's main criticism when it was released. Although it's still probably a bit lighter than the BMW.

IMO, the F800 is the better all round bike. The 800 Rotax is an EXCELLENT engine. Very reliable and offers a great balance of torque and power. That extra power and smoothness really reduces fatigue on a long trip.

The Yamaha beats the BMW on reliability due to simplicity. The BMW has it's electronic complexities which can leave you stranded if you're unlucky.

Have you considered the XT660R ?

It's much lighter and a bit lower. I had one. And I think it's an EXCELLENT and often overlooked Overland bike. It's let down by it's lack of ground clearance due to the exhaust routing but that can be remedied if you're prepared to buy the expensive aftermarket exhaust. Or its not a problem at all if you're not going to attack serious off-road.

It's also cheaper than the Tenere.

If you look at the 660R then go for a later model. After 2006. The early ones had terrible fuelling.

This post makes me want to buy another one.

[badou24]

only one bike ........... yam t 700 tenere
xt660 too vibey after a month on one in Morocco came back worn out !

[Tim Cullis]

I would say the XT660Z is slightly lower than the F800GS. I praised the XT660Z when it came out as the only bike really ready for long distance trail riding with its large fuel capacity and rally style cockpit and enjoyed many years with mine. Yes, it's top heavy but that's an advantage if you want quick reactions from the bike. It has a wonderfully wide gearbox.

It's main problem over the years has been poor electrical contacts at the rectifier and there are inexpensive mods you can find on the Internet to address this. I installed the 'Kev mod' to make the engine more flexible.

The F800GS has a much more tractable engine but with a narrow six-speed gearbox. When it came out there were a whole pile of problems but I guess they will all have been sorted on an old bike.

[Flipflop]

Both bikes are very tall. I’ve not ridden the XTZ but my wife had an 800gs, neither of us liked riding it off road - we find the big boxers are much better due to their low centre of gravity.
Sounds like just about any mid or large engined bike would do what you’re asking of it - i know plenty of people who do easy, dry trails on road tyres.
CB500x sounds about right but.........

Classic Vespa through Africa, sounds like you’re a cool dude so my advice is to buy something sexy and enjoy it - the practical bike will come in 5 years.

[Wheelie]

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson

There will always be another one... Or as someone once asked, "Why do you have five bikes?" Answer - "Because I just sold one".

The machines started owning me. I've been downsizing my stables from 8 bikes, now down to two, including my Classic Scooter (my souvenir from Africa - with all it's sand and grit still intact - never to be sold, or washed). In the end my plan is to get rid of the "twist and go" as well, and only have one "all purpose bike" in my stables. But true, the bike I get now will not be the last one, and not the bike for the "big adventure" years from now.

Pros for Tenere: Low price! Significantly more suitable offroad?
Cons for Tenere: Significantly more uncomfortable for touring than the F800GSA? Significantly more tipsy than the bimmer?

Are the differences significant?

I am leaning towars the Tenere.

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*

Have you considered the XT660R ?

Long ago, but it is not a very comfortable bike and not even close to adventure bike ready in the same way as the Tenere or The F800GSA, in my opinion. After all the expensive farkles I'd need to add, on an older cheap bike - it would be very poor economy.

Originally Posted by Tim Cullis

Yes, it's top heavy but that's an advantage if you want quick reactions from the bike.
...
When it came out there were a whole pile of problems but I guess they will all have been sorted on an old bike.

I am more concerned about slow speed control on rugged terrain, less risk of washing out on poor traction surfaces, easier to pick up, easier to walk, easier to rescue tipping over, etc. Compared to for instance the F650GS Dakar the Tenere is also heavy... and compared to KTM's, Husvarna's, etc - it is a Brontosaurus. I've never ridden one and I am concerned about how it handles. How significantly different are the two with all your adventure gear?

I was hoping my GF could practice on the bike I get (173 cm nd 32" inseam?). I might however buy a 125cc Varadero for that purpose, then my son can inherit it when she graduates to a bike of her own.

As for the reliability of the Bimmer, I'm also of the impression that much was ironed out after the first 2-3 years... but my impression is that even the most reliable European adventure bikes and dual sports are not as reliable as mostly all Japanese bikes in the same category (a generalization, I know). Although the F800GSA has a good reputation in terms of overall reliability, I have come to believe that they are not as forgiving to poor fuel, dust, mud and water, as the Tenere... but still acceptable. The difference in reliability between these two bikes will not affect my choice.

Originally Posted by Jay_Benson

The 50% price difference is a lot of fuel....

Or