I'd like to get some obvious differing opinions, but hey, we live in a world full of choices. Anyway, what I want to do is for me and my wife to do some fairly moderate/heavy travelling over North America, Europe & North Africa, two-uo. Sealed and un-sealed roads, now I've come down to two (2) choices: Triumph Tiger or F650 GSD. The floor is now yours

Like most people I like the bike I have. I ride 2up on a BMW R100R. I have learned what can go wrong and how to fix it. If I were to plan a trip like yours I would get a used
BMW R100GS. A shaft drive, easy fuel system to work on, can carry a large load. If I had to get a new bike it would be a BMW R1150GS. The Triumph would be ok. I think a 650 is to small for 2up touring with a full load.

Actually John you have a good point ala the size of the F650 GSD, that's why I'm leaning towards the Tiger, however, now looking at your suggestion of the larger BMW brings into being the age old dilema of 'choice' and too much of it. A question still stands that of how will the larger BMW handle unsealed surfaces?

The R100/R1100GS BMW's do very well on unsealed surfaces, generally considered to be much better than the Triumph Tiger. The Tiger carries it's weight much higher than the BMW, and this is a big negative off-road.

And if anything the R11xxGS are better offroad than the R80/100GS, despite popular opinion. My first ride on an R11xxGS surprised me, it was remarkably easy to handle and steer compared to my R80G/S, requiring much less effort at lower speeds to change direction, making it a snap to ride through the rough stuff.

For two-up I think the 650 is too small, not because of a lack of power, it has more than enough, but simply physical room to park two average size adults on for a long time. If you're both smallish, it might well be fine. The ONLY way to be sure is for the both of you to sit on one for a while in your riding gear - preferably rolling down the road!

If it's physically too small I'd go for the R11xxGS over the Tiger, without a doubt, although the Tiger is certainly useable.

If you plan on plenty of off-road, the smaller and lighter the bike the better, so the 650 needs to be looked at carefuly before eliminating, but in this scenario the Tiger loses to either BMW.

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Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Having now taken in both John's and Grant's suggestions, I've done some research into the R1150GS (BMW & others WWW) and I think the winner is ... R1150GS. Thanks guys, now how do I explain to my wife the budget blow-out?

Strongly recommend goiing used R1100GS. Carnet will be MUCH cheaper, and there's nothing really wrong with the old ones.

Yes the 1150 has a 6 speed yadda yadda, BUT for $4-5,000 less, you can do a lot of travelling. Give the used one a very through going over and you're all set.

Don't forget the Touratech "hard parts" for it.

Have fun!

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Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

There's been a couple of articles in Motorcycle Consumer News (US) about the modifations necessary to make an R80GS into the best RTW tourer in the world (authors opinion but he may have somethin). Seems not too big, and not too small....

Why does the Africa Twin rarely get a mention in these discussions? Whilst I don't have one, and therefore have no direct experience to draw on, it would seem to me to be in the same league as the Tiger and larger BMWs. It's got Japanese build quality, large worldwide dealer network, and lots of third party touring products (Touratech, RikyCross, etc.).

What's the flaw in the design that I'm missing?

Iain.

[This message has been edited by iswoolley (edited 06 April 2001).]

Because Africa Twin = unavailable in North America.

Same thing with the TransAlp; I think that's a great bike, but they haven't been sold in Canada/USA for about 10 years now.

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Bruce Clarke
brclarke@islandnet.com
www.islandnet.com/~brclarke

Re: the Africa Twin & Transalp, Whilst being given many choices to choose from for our up comming adventure I did try to find if the mentioned two bikes were available in Australia.

I was given a very abrupt "not available" from the importers. It seems there isn't the demand for such bikes here in OZ (?),hence no profit.

Cheers & s
Macca

I had looked into a Transalp here in the US but they haven't been available for quite a few years for the same reason given above I believe.

Further to my wonderings "why" the Africa Twin and Transalps are not available in OZ(Australia), I talked to a Honda dealer as OZ is ideally suited to some serious bike riding, the dealer agreed and informed me that surveys suggest that the average Aussie bike owner doesn't like to see his/her bike in the rough, you could say a bit "Cafe-Racer" like, hence we don't get the type of bikes seen in Europe and North American markets. It seems that people like me are a very small minority here in OZ so don't warrent the importation or the adventure/enduro type bikes. Our loss I feel.

Cheers & s
Macca

Oh dear, Macca, do you mean that aussies are gaining a reputation of being "gravel driveway coyboys" blasting to the cafes for a latte aboard jacked up, wicked, tricked out, overland dirt weapons that are highly polished, non-scratched and a mileage reading of 3 digits.- oh well, more dirt for us.
dingofish

It does seem a curious thing here in Oz that big bore touring bikes don't do more business then they currently do. Honda's last big bore effort here was a dismal failure and as such Honda has made no further forrays into that part of the market.

An interesting aside is that Yamaha's WR400 is the biggest selling bike 'down under', the big bore 'dual-sport' market pretty much covered by BMW and Triumph, whilst Yamaha has announced the end of the XTZ 660.

In a country ideally suited to Adventure Touring over big distances, Australia is yet to fully embrace this style of biking. Most aussie bikers will have 2 bikes..a big bore tourer/sports bike, and a dirt bike.

With possibly the exception of the BMW, experience tells me that most riders down here view the dual-sports as being too much of a compromise, and prefer to have the best of both worlds in two seperate bikes.

This view is slowly changing, but they will take some convincing. Triumph's Tiger and the BMW are probably the only two doing decent numbers down here.

I think one of the other factors that is involved here is time vs distance. Eg. if a couple of fellow riders want to explore an area a few thousand kms away, it's much easier and more practical to trailer the bikes across with everyone taking turns at the wheel and having the optimum bike for touring the area...more time exploring, less time transporting....and probably cheaper.

Most aussies who have the time to dirt tour their own country tend to opt for modified 650 singles...again the big bore dual sports missing out. They're often seen as the better option...generally lighter and cheaper, with excess equipment either mailed on ahead or mailed home.

Andy.

There are about 15 Africa twins in Oz , all private imports, I own one of them. They are a magic bike and everyone that rides them here loves them. Honda Australia say if 200 people give them a deposit they will bring them in.

To see a few piccies of AT's in Oz check out,
http://www.geocities.com/atgreg/corner.html
andhttp://home.westserv.net.au/~bsc/ozphotos.html


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