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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
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  #16  
Old 23 Mar 2011
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eternal discussion ...

It is in my opnion. A bike with a well-tuned carburettor is as good as a bike with a well-tuned FI system. The statement also applies if you replace the "well" twice with "badly".
FI does have more components which are 'distributed' over the bike and interconnected by wiring - increasing the chance of malfunction. As does the number of components increase the chance of malfunction. That said, FI systems are very very reliable nowadays - almost all the cars you see on the road are fuel injected and how many of them break down due to a fault in the FI system?

For sheer reliability, I'd still choose a carb, as they tend to be very reliable. Interesting for the OP: a CV carb (constant vacuum) does not need altitude adjustment - the adjustment is 'built-in' in it's operating principle.

I did however just change from a carburetted bike to an FI bike - and I like it. Reading through the numerous boards all over the internet I dare say that the amount of expertise shown by those tinkering with carbs and those tinkering with FI is about the same - and would not encourage me to have my bike worked on by the posters.

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  #17  
Old 23 Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by pecha72 View Post
Actually you don´t, because the standard EFI box is programmable. You´ll just need to connect it to a laptop with proper software on it (this is usually done at the dealer during other maintenance) and adjust fuel amounts just a little at low rpm on partial throttle openings.

But I´m sure the dealers, who sell Power commander or similar systems would disagree, it is their business afterall!!

For me, it´s FI all the way nowadays, simple as that. I´ve had several carb´d bikes (and cars) during the years, and in FI, both functionality and dependability are just superior, even if/when planning an overland-trip to faraway countries.

Hi Pecha72,
Whether you use a power commander ,use your own computer with the correct program or go to the dealer to have the fueling altered [ IF he can do it properly ] .The principle is the same .
My point is that you are stepping up the cost and utilising technology that is beyond the brain and screwdriver .
I don't go to dealers ,because they are expensive and in the most part incompetent .
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  #18  
Old 23 Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
Hi Pecha72,
Whether you use a power commander ,use your own computer with the correct program or go to the dealer to have the fueling altered [ IF he can do it properly ] .The principle is the same .
My point is that you are stepping up the cost and utilising technology that is beyond the brain and screwdriver .
I don't go to dealers ,because they are expensive and in the most part incompetent .
Most ECU's aren't remappable anyway. Some can be flashed with new firmware but only by maps supplied BY the manufacturer of the bike.

This is exactly why power commanders exist !!

I have to agree with Dodger... 99% of dealers wouldnt know what to do with a rolling road and a power commader but there are websites full of maps with different sets ups that you can download. For that, I really like FI as it's pretty much plug and play.
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  #19  
Old 23 Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
Hi Pecha72,
Whether you use a power commander ,use your own computer with the correct program or go to the dealer to have the fueling altered [ IF he can do it properly ] .The principle is the same .
My point is that you are stepping up the cost and utilising technology that is beyond the brain and screwdriver .
I don't go to dealers ,because they are expensive and in the most part incompetent .
It took less than 5 minutes to adjust my Vstrom´s ECU (to fix that running at low revs), so cost isnt an issue here. And I know you can make more precise adjustments with a PC, so if I was building a race bike, then it might make sense. A Vstrom can run just fine without it.

I don´t know about the quality of the dealers in your area, but that adjustment is really very basic.

Complicated technology? Well, maybe, if you compare to a screwdriver, but like pointed out here, FI´s actually been around for ages, it works really well, and has clear advantages compared to what was before.
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  #20  
Old 24 Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by pecha72 View Post
It took less than 5 minutes to adjust my Vstrom´s ECU (to fix that running at low revs), so cost isnt an issue here. And I know you can make more precise adjustments with a PC, so if I was building a race bike, then it might make sense. A Vstrom can run just fine without it.

I don´t know about the quality of the dealers in your area, but that adjustment is really very basic.

Complicated technology? Well, maybe, if you compare to a screwdriver, but like pointed out here, FI´s actually been around for ages, it works really well, and has clear advantages compared to what was before.
Shop charges are around $95 to $110 an hour , one hour minimum charge .
I wouldn't trust them with my wheelbarrow !

Ride safe and prosper .
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  #21  
Old 25 Mar 2011
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Thanks, TurboCharger

I obviously am not fluent with computer stuff and am inept at searching. I was not aware one could search the site using Google.

I joined as a Gold member to support the site, read posts for 10 months trying to learn and find my way around, and get spanked for my third post.

Sorry I irritated you. Anyway, I do appreciate you teaching me how to search. Thank you.
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  #22  
Old 25 Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Uhuru View Post

I ride a BMW F650GS Dakar right now (EFI).
Difficult to improve on that combination, especially right now with fuel prices on the rise, the F650gs get's significantly better fuel efficiency compared to the carbed 650's.

The DR650se might be a bit lighter but it's still a fairly big tall bike.
If you want lighter and more peppy consider a WR250R, also a tall bike but a lot lighter weight.

The Dakar you got is a mighty good all-around bike. It's just a bit underpowered by my tastes.
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  #23  
Old 25 Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Uhuru View Post
I obviously am not fluent with computer stuff and am inept at searching. I was not aware one could search the site using Google.

I joined as a Gold member to support the site, read posts for 10 months trying to learn and find my way around, and get spanked for my third post.

Sorry I irritated you. Anyway, I do appreciate you teaching me how to search. Thank you.
Don't be disgruntled... The search function on the hubb is CR*P and oftens returns no results so there are plenty of questions asked over and over and over (by me too).

Welcome to the Hubb and long may you be a member
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  #24  
Old 25 Mar 2011
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Thanks, Touring Ed

Thank you for your encouragement. It's nice to feel welcomed.
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  #25  
Old 16 Apr 2011
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I personally do not mind EFI at all. However, newer bikes with EFI tend to also have a lot of other electronics, which make (IMHO) service during a trip harder. Things like electronic ABS, FI dependent on catalyst readings, gear sensors, sensors for this, sensors for that.

While there is nothing _wrong_ with it, I do not know how to diagnose elaborate electronics issues in the field.

Hence I, personally, would rather take my '93 TransAlp on a big trip than a GS800.

Then again, YMMV...
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  #26  
Old 16 Apr 2011
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Originally Posted by cnfer View Post
I personally do not mind EFI at all. However, newer bikes with EFI tend to also have a lot of other electronics, which make (IMHO) service during a trip harder. Things like electronic ABS, FI dependent on catalyst readings, gear sensors, sensors for this, sensors for that.

While there is nothing _wrong_ with it, I do not know how to diagnose elaborate electronics issues in the field.

Hence I, personally, would rather take my '93 TransAlp on a big trip than a GS800.

Then again, YMMV...
Yeah.. That is a problem on many, but not all bikes !!!

I agree with your choice of travel bike though..... Electrics scare me too lol
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  #27  
Old 16 Apr 2011
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Missed this thread completely when it was current. I originally trained in Electronic Engineering (used to work with military radio equipment) and although completely out of date the same principles can still be applied.

EFI wins hands down on the moving parts argument and with intelligent design is going to be much better in water (no float chaber or breather pipes). The problem lies in the engine management unit that controls the FI using input from various sensors and also controls ignition timing based on a stored algorithm. The algorithm can be altered on some bikes allowing better operation with low grade fuel for example. Electronics can fail for no good reason although apart from 'infant failures' most failures are agrevated by heat or water. Electronics are very light and cost very little to make especially if made in quantity and can also be made extremely rugged at virtually no extra cost. Unfortunately, the same is not true of the sensors and the connections to the sensors. For an ideal travel bike it seems to me that a manufacturer could easily make the electronics 100% redundant at very little extra cost to the end user. The same could be done for the sensors and the wiring although it may cost more. Redundancy would add nothing to the weight. Better on board diagnostics would be a useful facility so that when a failure does occur and your bike is running on the back up system you can order a replacement part to get the bike back to 100% as soon as possible.
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  #28  
Old 30 Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by colebatch View Post
FI is the go.

I think the need to use carbs is one of the great adventure motorcycling wives tales.
Hi Colebatch

I am not a native English speaking guy, could you please explain what is the meaning of WIVES in this sentence ? ))))

I have a R80 GS Basic which is a great adventure motorcycle IMHO! which is running on carbs and I am a member of Euroheads Group too.

If it has real meaning of wife (s), my wife (s) don't know any tales about carbs !

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  #29  
Old 30 Jun 2011
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Hi Colebatch

I am not a native English speaking guy, could you please explain what is the meaning of WIVES in this sentence ? ))))

!

Old wives' tale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #30  
Old 30 Jun 2011
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Having ridden on and with a few different bikes over the Pyrenees between France and Spain (close to sea level up to 2500m) I have to say that FI is the way to go. The caveat is that the manufacturer must be experienced in FI:- I have been warned by someone with greater knowledge and experience than I that the system in certain orange bikes is not as robust as BMW's for example.

CCM 604 (air cooled rotax, delorto carb) was running a bit rough by 1000m and got worse as it climbed higher.
DRZ400S - CV carb, was also popping and farting and down on power.
BMW F650GS (single) as you know altitude seems not to affect it.
BMW G650X Challenge - No discernible difference in power but it uses even less fuel than normal.

The G650X series may be worth looking at. In the UK they never really caught on and it is possible to buy one for less than a late model F650GS (single). Practically the same engine you are used to but the bike has been on a 40kg diet.

From experience: the BMW runs fine without a cat, without a lambda sensor and you can even fit a 10% larger fuel injector in about 10 minutes. This gets round the very lean settings enforced by emissions regulations and improves running, at the expense of slightly increased fuel consumption of course.
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