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Travellers' questions that don't fit anywhere else This is an opportunity to ask any question, and post any notice you wish that doesn't fit into one of the other sections.
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  #31  
Old 28 May 2008
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not to mention the fact that a lot of the 'green lanes' were either tarmaced or hard-packed and graded within the last 50-60 years......

Maintenance is the answer, not prohibition. Why is this even an argument?!?!?
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  #32  
Old 28 May 2008
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I agree with everything which has been said regarding keeping these ancient routes and by-ways open to all traffic. Generally speaking responsible trail riders do not abuse the routes and are as keen as anyone to see them preserved.
No doubt some of these routes will be damaged but nature has a way of recovering itself. The earth has been around a lot longer than us and will almost certainly be around for a long time after we've gone.
There's no point in preserving things if we can't use and enjoy them.
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  #33  
Old 28 May 2008
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save some

Can’t ride off-road round my place (Isle of Wight) anymore, shame it is.

When I was a lad at school about 28 years ago, a bunch of us got hold of a puch maxi moped thing. We’d push it on the roads until we got onto the local fields, because kids had respect for the old bill in those days, they could clip you round the ear and cart you off home, still that’s not the point.

I’ve only had my TT600RE since February, the other night I went round my friends’ house, he had a Honda C90 and used to play in the same fields and lanes back then. We got talking about the old days when we’d nip-up and learn how to get the peds airborne

We couldn’t think of one place that we could go anymore without getting busted. We think if people still had the same amount of common sense and respect as we had then, things would be different now.

I say save a few, we’re not all irresponsible. Mongolia is a long way for some good off-road action
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  #34  
Old 28 May 2008
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Dirt road technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminando View Post
Its a fact.
It is no more a fact than the last time you said it.

In Sweden, the USA and NZ, to name three other locations, they have and maintain 1000s of miles of dirt roads and they are good at it.
Here in the UK the highway engineers also know how to build and maintain dirt roads - it is not rocket science, the Romans did it here a couple of millenia ago, or thereabouts.

However, we don't do it for the reasons that I have outlined previously.
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  #35  
Old 28 May 2008
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Im afraid I'll have to side with Caminando on this one...

What an earth has Greenlaning to do with your goddamn human rights? Precisely nothing! The future for greenlaning is bleak because a minority of idiots have caused so much needless damage. When I play golf I go round repairing the divits in the grass afterwards... If I didn't do this I'd be kicked off the course.

Instead of giving us a hard time for facing FACTS, why not have a word with a few of your fellow greenlaners who are causing this type of selfish damage?
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Last edited by kentfallen; 28 May 2008 at 21:41.
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  #36  
Old 28 May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminando View Post
It never ceases to amaze me what extreme arguments some backwoodsmen, (seeds and straw in hair) will use to promote selfishness. Such people are blind to all logic, blind to science, and use caricatures of others to promote their offbeat views. All this nonsense about tweedy walkers, hijacking of councils, unspecified vested interests, and so on, smacks of paranoia, I regret to say.

To present these people with a half metre deep rut caused by bikes means nothing to them. They cannot see it, just as they once believed that the earth was flat. Someone said that most of the world's roads are unpaved - of course! but have you seen these roads when muddy? Why is it that a paved road is seen as a godsend? Why dont you inform yourselves with facts and not prejudice?

Dont you get it? We're sorry you cant ride muddy tracks without damage: we're sorry that bikes etc damage unpaved routes...but this happens. I think it must be great fun to ride green lanes, but it cant be sustained in modern times.

Its a fact.
So I presume you are one of those people who are happy to spend their leisure time clogging up the roads with your car, just to walk a couple of miles? or wondering aimlessly around a shopping centre?

You have not bothered to read or digest anything that I or the others have said - not all green lanes in the UK are muddy, many are rock and stone - and those lanes that have been damaged whether that is by wheel or foot or hoof are able to be temporarily closed by the local authority for repair or maintenance.

What we are objecting to is the blanket reclassification of these lanes without any assessment to their suitability or sustainability, and the total disregard of the Government to consider there is a small percentage of the population who enjoy recreation different to others, and still provide for them accordingly.

Indeed it is only in recent times that the Government took any interest in this subject whatsoever - for years (centuries in many instances) the public have been able to travel this network of old roads by whatever means they feel most appropriate to their circumstances.

The few problem areas that have arisen in recent times (and that the media repeatedly and so loving highlight) are quite able to be controlled with the current legislation. However, a few specific examples should surely not dictate a whole policy?

I don't hear calls for mount Snowdon to be closed to walkers, even though in 2006 £800,000 of tax payers money was used to helicopter stone up to repair the footpaths that have been damaged by walkers.

There are many more hundreds of miles of footpath and bridleway in this country that are soley for non-motorised 'recreational' traffic. Can you really begrudge those who wish to use motor vehicles to access the countryside the 2% of the network that is still available to ALL users?

I would suggest it is you who needs to arm yourself with a few 'facts' and actually research this subject a little more thoroughly before you blithely cast aspersions - rather than regurgitating hysterical media hearsay and pissing off to France when it suits you...

xxx
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  #37  
Old 28 May 2008
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Originally Posted by kentfallen View Post
Instead of giving us a hard time for facing FACTS, why not have a word with a few of your fellow greenlaners who are causing this type of selfish damage?
Now that is a fair point you have made - it can't be denied that certain areas have suffered in more recent times from overuse and misuse by riders and 4x4 drivers who really ought to know better.

However, as I have mentioned previously and above, a few specific cases should not dictate a country ne nationwide policy surely? Not when there is already the facility to close 'problem' lanes as required.

It ought to be up to the local authority to decide which of their unsurfaced roads are able to sustain vehicular use, and in appropriate regions, clearly signpost these routes so that ALL users are aware of their status and can choose to use them accordingly? We all ride and drive vehicles these days - why has using them on an unsurfaced route suddenly become some sort of crime?

xxx
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  #38  
Old 29 May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
So I presume you are one of those people who are happy to spend their leisure time clogging up the roads with your car, just to walk a couple of miles? or wondering aimlessly around a shopping centre?

You have not bothered to read or digest anything that I or the others have said

I would suggest it is you who needs to arm yourself with a few 'facts' and actually research this subject a little more thoroughly before you blithely cast aspersions - rather than regurgitating hysterical media hearsay and pissing off to France when it suits you...

xxx
You presume too much - I dont have a car. And my last walk was not 2 miles but 300miles.

I have read what you say and reject it as unscientific, and ahistoric.

I do not "cast aspersions"; I use facts. I never regurgitate news reports, and I make up my mind based on evidence/facts. I suggest you do the same; it may be a first for you.

What has "pissing off to France" got to do with anything, other than an infantile bit of rudeness - you're just throwing your toys out of the pram.

However, I will grant you one thing; your tenacity in the face of evidence and facts has got me beat. You have convinced yourself that black is white and I cant help you any more. Trying to inform Flat Earthers is like beating your head off a brick wall - it's great when it stops....so as that business Dragon on TV says " Your idea isnt a viable proposition, so for that reason - I'm out".

Last edited by Caminando; 29 May 2008 at 11:07.
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  #39  
Old 29 May 2008
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Caminando, with the greatest of respect, it seems to be you who is unable to see anyone else's point of view, and that the situation is not black or white but indeed many shades of grey, if also brown...

Myself and others are merely pointing out that not ALL green lanes are unsustainable for motorised vehicles, and that the authorities ought to acknowledge that and provide (where appropriate) for those who wish to travel other than by foot or hoof. Blanket bans do nothing but appease a few selfish and misguided individuals.

There is space in this country for everyone, and we ought to be fostering a spirit of cooperation and community as fellow countryside users - addressing problems where they arise, and not setting one group against another as if any one form or recreation is more valid than another?

I would be interest to hear (although I respect you have bowed out of this discussion) where you have gleaned your facts from exactly?

I myself have spent the past twenty years cataloging a huge number of byways and green lanes in England and Wales, am a member of the Cambrian Mountains Project sustainability forum and have written extensively on the subject of Rights Of Way in both the two and four wheeled press over many years. I consider myself more than adequately armed with the 'facts' of what is actually happing on the ground in this country, and am not prepared to accept biased generalisations regarding access to the countryside for ALL users.

Kindest regards,

xxx
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  #40  
Old 29 May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post

I myself have spent the past twenty years cataloging a huge number of byways and green lanes in England and Wales, am a member of the Cambrian Mountains Project sustainability forum and have written extensively on the subject of Rights Of Way in both the two and four wheeled press over many years.
KAPOW! (I think that's what the yoof call a 'bitch-slap'!)

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  #41  
Old 29 May 2008
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Facts

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Originally Posted by Caminando View Post
Sorry Daz, these lanes are not suitable for wheeled traffic - they only destroy the way and make it impassable for others. You can see the damage and it's not sustainable.

You also get offroad m/cycling a bad name.
Just returning to the original reply from C, there are no facts quoted, but opinions about the capability of lanes and it just goes on from there: not a single fact, in fact.
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  #42  
Old 29 May 2008
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Lets not allow this discussion to get too personal or childish...

I really see nothing wrong with what Caminando has stated here. He's entitled to his opinion as indeed you ALL are. Personally, I admire him for standing up against all your combined mass...

We ALL need to remember that we are ALL motorcyclists together and that we share a common passion. An opinon is formed from direct life experiences.

In a perfect world you guys would have unfettered access to all Green Lanes but this country is a long way from being perfect at the moment. This damn government fails to mend and maintain the highways therefore it's not entirely surprising they aren't going to spend money on your beloved Green Lanes. If things are ever going to change for the better we need to get rid of the Human Rights Act / Health and Safety Nazis ect.. and establish a "Ministry of Common Sense" with a wide remit and full executive powers. I fear that the future for Green-Laning is bleak to say the least
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Last edited by kentfallen; 29 May 2008 at 18:44.
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  #43  
Old 29 May 2008
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very true

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Originally Posted by kentfallen View Post
we need to get rid of the Human Rights Act / Health and Safety Nazis ect.. and establish a "Ministry of Common Sense"
Well said dude, that statement smacks true with so many things in life...
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  #44  
Old 29 May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentfallen View Post
Lets not allow this discussion to get too personal or childish...

I really see nothing wrong with what Caminando has stated here. He's entitled to his opinion as indeed you ALL are. Personally, I admire him for standing up against all your combined mass...

We ALL need to remember that we are ALL motorcyclists together and that we share a common passion. An opinon is formed from direct life experiences.

In a perfect world you guys would have unfettered access to all Green Lanes but this country is a long way from being perfect at the moment. This damn government fails to mend and maintain the highways therefore it's not entirely surprising they aren't going to spend money on your beloved Green Lanes. If things are ever going to change for the better we need to get rid of the Human Rights Act / Health and Safety Nazis ect.. and establish a "Ministry of Common Sense" with the remit of sorting out things like this. I fear that the future for Green-Laning is bleak to say the least
I agree with the "Ministry of Common Sense" While we are at it, can we also have a new criminal charge of "Being a Twat" I think with both of them in place it would take about three weeks to sort the country out.

You are right that the future of green laning is bleak. I have even had aged TRF stalwarts tell me that when all they lanes have gone, they will probably end up running an old bike with no plates and go back to riding the lanes as they used to 30 years ago.
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  #45  
Old 29 May 2008
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The problem with locking "twats" up like this is that we wouldn't have any government ministers left to run (sorry - ruin) OUR country.

Our servants (people that we elect to parliament to represent OUR views) are now becoming our masters without our knowledge or permission!

The Green-Lane problem which we are discussing here directly concerns these twats. Nothing is likely to EVER change for the better all the whilst the people elect lib/lab/con.
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Last edited by kentfallen; 29 May 2008 at 21:15.
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