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  #31  
Old 15 Feb 2009
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Seconded about the training.

Ridsing up north:
Yup. the times my bike has taken me up there, there was still a healthy fraternal feel to biking. A nice surprise...
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  #32  
Old 16 Feb 2009
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think its a great idea which needs so researching on . I had a nasty accident on my bike,was hit by a car and broke my arm fortunatly rest of me was fine.

But i does not matter how good of biker you are as there are always some idiot in a car who does not check the side mirrors before turning infront of you! I would definatly by a airbag jacket if it would save me from getting paralyzed .. its a no brainer

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  #33  
Old 17 Feb 2009
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Hi Long time reader, first comment,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexlebrit View Post

You can also get over/under jackets too, so you don't even have to abandon your favourite current jacket.
I'm entirely sure but when sailing your told not to wear a lifejacket inside your kit as their is a possibility it could crush you. There was said to be someone who died from that in the Sydney to Hobart '98. Something to worry about if this air bag is inflating under your jacket and the least way of resistance is inwards, crushing your chest.

Game on if there is some kit that will protect me a little more I may well go for it. We have to remember that Air Bags aren't compulsory for cars and they have been round for years. I doubt they will become compulsory for bikes.

Happy Riding to you all

Steve
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  #34  
Old 17 Feb 2009
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I have had several accidents where I have not become seperated from the bike. Which would make the jacket not just expensive but useless.

Matt

PS- As Hubbers, should we not be above using a persons nationality as a form of insult? And for an Englishman to do this screams of "People in glass houses..."
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  #35  
Old 17 Feb 2009
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I got to look at one of the over-jacket airbag kits today. It reminded me slightly of an uninflated lifejacket, I hardly felt the weight and didn't fell hampered moving. I'm sure in peak summer that I'd feel the difference of an extra layer in places, but as it didn't cover my whole back when deflated I don't think it'd be like riding in a plastic bag.

But, I didn't buy it even though I've probably just got the money to do so, and on the way home I got to thinking "Why not?" Partly it was the fact I hated the look of it and it got in the way of the pockets or my jacket, partly it was the thought of another set of zips and buckles to tackle everytime I wanted to put things on or off, and partly because I was wondering if it'd really add that much extra protection on top of the CE approved stuff built into my jacket.

So I can see more now, why it's going to be hard to convince anyone, as I was all for the idea of an airbag jacket (although not compulsory use of one) and I didn't end up buying one when offered.
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  #36  
Old 18 Feb 2009
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I remember playing with these back in 2006 - I found them comfortable and they did require a hell of a pull to set them off.



The only thing that concerned me them was the location of the gas canister - right over the ribs



But the price was around the same as a good jacket at the time and I was really surprised at how easy it was to pack back up and re-arm - of course it was an LB meet so there was lots of messing around and trying to set them off - but it took such a yank that no-one managed to do it.

On the whole safety front. I'm all for further research into stuff that will make riding a bike safer, and I like the opportunity to choose what bits I do wear - and the thing is - since I've got older and had better jobs I've bought better and better gear... and as I've had more and more training I've become a better rider - could really have done with this good kit when I was coming off every other corner on my 125!

But my point is this... the company marketing this has pulled a very clever below the line advertising trick.

The UK government has no intention of making this stuff compulsory - the doctor who talked about this will have been paid a tidy sum by the marketing company to say these things - which he may well believe - and then the marketing company makes big of it and offers interviews. This is what I used to do at UBC Media - and this is a text book case.

Their aim? Get bikers talking about them and debating them - nothing better than a controversial topic like this.

So there we go boys, we've fallen right into the marketer trap!
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  #37  
Old 18 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcbf600 View Post
So there we go boys, we've fallen right into the marketer trap!
Possibley, but there are enough people on the various web pages who know about car air bags to rip these things to shreds. If it's a marketing ploy it's a dangerous one. If your air bag meets something unexpected, you are going to be in the soup for a few hundred thousand, especially if you killed a government employee.

Points that worry me:

1. There is no approval test. You can market three bin bags and a soda syphon cartridge just as much as something Dainese or whoever spent a lot of cash developing. You'd have no idea if the metal cartridge will smash your ribs or the air bag will break you neck until somebody else falls off wearing one.

2. Lanyard activation is a joke. On a car the air bags have accelerometers that start the deployment and a host of switches and sensors that tick boxes in the logic to say you are sat in the right place, with you seat belt on and are not a bag of shopping or kiddy seat. Screwing a length of tent guy rope to a fairing and hopeing the rider sits in the right place in relation to the length of rope, does up his zips and doesn't have a disk lock in his pocket seems rather hopeful by comparison. What if the lanyand wraps round your wrist?

3. Air bags act as part of a system and only provide a controlled deceleration element. Crush, abrasion and penetration protection is provided in a car by the structure and on a bike by armour and the right materials. An air bag added over armour would seem to do no harm, but the complete jackets look like all or nothing protection.

What I'm surprised none of the big boys has marketed is a complete system. It worked for firemen and American footballers. Jacket and trousers designed to stay together, a helmet with a neck brace and gloves and boots that don't come off would seem a better starting point. The neck brace and boots could use air bag technology, but from a marketing point of view you have a much better USP to your boss in takeing all a riders business.

The thing on the BBC was a gimmick. I'm beting it's a glorified CV so the developers can try and enforce patents when someone doing a proper development hits the same spot. It's a old trick, skip straight to the end point avoiding the hard work in the middle then get a good lawyer. To see how it's done read up on the Wright brothers, they were still in court in the 1930's dealing with late Victorian loons who said they'd patented flying. The courts threw it out as doing is proveing, which is IMHO why your soda syphon developers will love the BBC piece and all the web chat.

Andy
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  #38  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
The thing on the BBC was a gimmick. I'm beting it's a glorified CV so the developers can try and enforce patents when someone doing a proper development hits the same spot. It's a old trick, skip straight to the end point avoiding the hard work in the middle then get a good lawyer. To see how it's done read up on the Wright brothers, they were still in court in the 1930's dealing with late Victorian loons who said they'd patented flying. The courts threw it out as doing is proveing, which is IMHO why your soda syphon developers will love the BBC piece and all the web chat.
You could have a point there...

Airbag doctor: “I don’t wear one” - Motorcycle News

Note than he's quoted as saying that the manufacturers have no evidence, independent or otherwise, to prove that these jackets are worth having.

Also, they may be a bit late if they think publicising on BBC will sort any patent issues out. Check these articles from MCN, both published in November 2007!

Dainese airbag suit: Exclusive crash test pictures - Motorcycle News

Dainese's new airbag suit tested in racing at the Valencia MotoGP - Motorcycle News

Looks very different from the one on BBC and appears to focus on specific protection of the head and neck. It looks like Dainese have done some very specific research and development rather than just pumping up the whole jacket with a sodastream cannister.
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  #39  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Rong Brothers

Hi, as I hope one of our New Zealand friends will say, the first powered flight was made by a Kiwi farmer. Not name of Britten or Munro either! Linzi.
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  #40  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcbf600 View Post
The only thing that concerned me them was the location of the gas canister - right over the ribs



But the price was around the same as a good jacket at the time...

....could really have done with this good kit when I was coming off every other corner on my 125!
I'm just looking at the text on the cannister and can't help thinking it's just another gimmicky piece of kit from a near 3rd world country that looks the part, but serves no other purpose but to part you from your money.

And how many 16yo's have the cash to buy one if made compulsory? It's hard enough persuading them to actually do the CBT and get insurance! That's the point I'm trying to make when I say it will kill off the UK motorcycle industry if the cost of motorcycling keeps escalating, particularly at entry level.

And I'm also looking at that neck support. I'd like to see a physio's or chiropractors view on it as I'd guess an ill-fitting jacket that went off during a spill could cause more injuries than it prevents.
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  #41  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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I cant understand the negative comments on this thread..

Surely anything that helps to prevent injury is a good thing. I don't think anyone is ever going to force you to wear one.

Training is obviously very important but no amount of training can prevent accidents caused by other people doing unpredictable things !!

The price certainly puts me off but If the entire French police bike force has bought them, they must be good for something !

I think its a good thing !
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  #42  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Hi, your use of the word "unpredictable" is the give away. Predict everything as any collision with whatever protection you wear is likely to smash you to a pulp. Biking is like the hardest level of computer game imaginable--master it. I think such a jacket is not worth the bother. It might not help in a collision anyway. Too many bikers simply don't get it that there is no such thing as "the dimwit pulled out infront of me". The biker is the dimwit for hitting him. Take responsibility for your life, not winge about other dunces. I am not speaking to you now when I say this by the way, simply stating my view on it. Linzi.
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  #43  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linzi View Post
Hi, your use of the word "unpredictable" is the give away. Predict everything as any collision with whatever protection you wear is likely to smash you to a pulp. Biking is like the hardest level of computer game imaginable--master it. I think such a jacket is not worth the bother. It might not help in a collision anyway. Too many bikers simply don't get it that there is no such thing as "the dimwit pulled out infront of me". The biker is the dimwit for hitting him. Take responsibility for your life, not winge about other dunces. I am not speaking to you now when I say this by the way, simply stating my view on it. Linzi.
While I agree with you to a point, there is no 100% avoidable accident ! Its just a total impossibilty. Sure you can reduce your chances with your style and senses but even the best riders take a tumble and even the most conscienscious rider can be slammed up the arse by a car who doesnt hit the brakes in time or a crazy overtaking chav cutting you up.

Iv been hit by drivers doing the most unimaginable things which you couldnt predict even if you were riding at 110% of your ability. If you rode like you were scating thin ice 100% of the time, you wouldnt enjoy yourself and then theres just no point.

Its a small mind that thinks you can be totally safe by taking a few courses !!

I used to think that way before I was hit by the cars and took the tumbles !!

And in noway am I saying you have a small mind !!

The cost of these jackets is high.. no doubt !! But there are plenty of jackets more expensive than these sold purely on marketing and fashion.
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  #44  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Looks like similar jackets have been available from J&S Accessories for a number of years now.

From visordown.com

Quote:

danceswithmopeds


Yesterday 23:07
3 forum posts
Yeah, great in theory. Unfortunately I tested mine about 5 years ago. Unlike the stunt-man in the vid; my crash was in the real world.
Woman driver I was passing was so busy gossiping with her friend she did not bother to look anywhere before she tried to do a U-turn.
You are attached to your bike by a 3 or 4 mm steel cable clipped to a strongpoint on bike.
It takes a 50kg pull to operate system and inflate the bag. You also have to travel a short distance from bike before this pull will happen. This does not happen in my type of crash until after bike has tumbled over you.
Big inflatable collar folds and fits into your collar, making it very difficult to turn your head while riding. Gas bottle is one of the big ones about 6" long. During crash it ground into my gut causing a lot of further problems.
Would I get another one, never.
Possibly the kind of dimwit Linzi is referring to but we need these people to test such things for us. Accident's, bar an Act of God, don't just happen, there is always a cause . Anyone who can't deal with that should buy a car.

Another comment from visordown was also that if it causes you to go into a roll as opposed to a slide, how can that possibly be safer? I've had a couple of very minor off's and can't say I ever remember rolling down the road with all limbs flailing around, as seen on the video. If anything, that's going to increase your injuries.

Going back to Matt's 1st pic, it shows the size and position of the neck support when inflated. Excuse me for stating the obvious but the rider would be wearing a helmet and I think it's fair to be concerned at the direction of leverage and sudden force that that would throw the rider's head forward. Again, I feel like I'm stating the obvious but it clearly wasn't designed by or had any input from anyone with any knowledge of biomechanics.
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  #45  
Old 19 Feb 2009
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Surprise

Ted, you'll no doubt be surprised to hear that I agree with you but still choose not to get one. It's a very fine line between your correct view that a crash is always possible and choosing not to wear one. But I used to fly a hang glider without a parachute when I couldn't afford one, getting one later. I make judgements myself and decide to ride super defensively with leather and back protector even to go half a mile. But leave it at that. The only likely risk I can't avoid is a head on overtake but that's terminal anyway. I stop at lights in gear watching to see if the car approaching will stop--if not then I'd be off! The Portuguese truck driver that just got done for killing a family is a case in point. The car driver should have seen the truck coming and gone onto the hard shoulder. That should have been a dead Portuguese trucker as he head butted the stationary truck infront. Linzi.
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