Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Chat Forum > The HUBB PUB

The HUBB PUB Chat forum - no useful content required!

BUT the basic rules of polite and civil conduct which everyone agreed to when signing up for the HUBB, will still apply, though moderation will be a LITTLE looser than elsewhere on the HUBB.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20 Dec 2010
Dodger's Avatar
Large Golden Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,098
Vee haf ways of making you buy our motozykles!

My apols if this has been aired before ,but I'm beginning to think that BMW are a bunch of shysters .I thought subliminal advertising was banned .
Bad form BMW !

YouTube - BMW - Flash Projection / Paper-Plane.fr

Verry Schneaky !
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20 Dec 2010
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Posts: 973
Is it subliminal if the logo is clearly visible to the audience, which it is when they close their eyes?

Surely subliminal would be a case of having "suggested" BMW using hidden metaphors, images etc leaving the audiences no consciously wiser to having been exposed to it?

Sneaky? Sure, perhaps a little; but no worse than oodles of product placement in all the major films IMO...
__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20 Dec 2010
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 401
Well, that's pretty disgusting really.
Even more dangerous to your well-being than riding a motorcycle is looking straight at the sun. You can be, and people are, blinded or have their sight seriously impared by doing that.

And it's the first line of the clip!

Don't know about cinema advertising but this is certainly banned in the UK on television. There, it's defined as showing an image for only one interlace scan of a single frame. Or maybe a whole frame as well. This idea probably wouldn't work on TV as there's no direct control over the brightness of the image.

I was never an astonished fan of BMW, even less of one now.

But the appearance of this thread is a strange coincidence.
I'll be posting up later today on my little blog (below) an account of how to look at the sun properly.......
(Through No. 14 welding glass)
And I'm also in discussion with the ASA and a private healthcare company about a particular ad. I'll chuck this one in as well.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
__________________
TTR250 - London to Cape Town
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21 Dec 2010
Dodger's Avatar
Large Golden Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
Is it subliminal if the logo is clearly visible to the audience, which it is when they close their eyes?

Surely subliminal would be a case of having "suggested" BMW using hidden metaphors, images etc leaving the audiences no consciously wiser to having been exposed to it?

Sneaky? Sure, perhaps a little; but no worse than oodles of product placement in all the major films IMO...

Maybe sublimal was the wrong word to use , but the audience were subjected to it and no element of choice was involved .
Light that bright has the potential to cause harm and should not be used on unwitting participants .It's a cheap trick and nothing more .

Reuben Xaus also did not come to prominence riding BMWs .
The whole ad is a sham and BMW should be ashamed of themselves .
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21 Dec 2010
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Posts: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
Maybe sublimal was the wrong word to use , but the audience were subjected to it and no element of choice was involved .
Light that bright has the potential to cause harm and should not be used on unwitting participants .It's a cheap trick and nothing more .

Reuben Xaus also did not come to prominence riding BMWs .
The whole ad is a sham and BMW should be ashamed of themselves .
I think we've been here before (the forum I mean): most, if not all marketing is a sham, a fake, a scam, and a cheap, albeit expensive, trick. BMW are no better no worse than anyone else IMO: I do my best to ignore the guff on TV, the mags, the billboards, the internet... We turn the sound off when the ads come on: it really shows them to be so daft without scripts!

As for the danger: I would moot that strobbing is more of a risk given that it can induce epileptic fits in the susceptible. But that happens all the time, admittedly with warnings before hand.

This flash was likened to a camera flash: the reference to the sun was to illustrate how images leave a residual in the visual cortex: the effect is the same if you look at a 40W bulb for a couple of seconds, just not as acute. Any flash produced in that auditorium would not cause any permanent damage: if that were a risk it simply would not be permitted by BMW's legal counsel at the very least.

At the end of the day, I agree the ad was crap. I was not impressed by the ad, visual trickery or not: it was a load of pap designed to massage a load of untoned male egos.
__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Last edited by Warthog; 1 Jan 2011 at 22:32.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25 Dec 2010
The Raven's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: liberty, Maine
Posts: 154
I personally think it's brilliant. No worse than having your picture taken. If it was bad for you then every camera mfg on the planet would be subject to litigation, not to mention BMW with this commercial.

It is not sneaky, it is not subliminal, it just takes advertising to a new level. The wording in the dialogue make it obvious. Our own impulses with subliminal messaging like the smiling fools in perfect situations that are featured in print are far worse that this as they make you fee that if you buy a product you will be like the featured subjects.
__________________
I'm Raven, a forever banished exile from ADV,

Check out our blog at
www.nomapnomads.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 1 Jan 2011
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
I think we've been here before (the forum I mean): most, if not all marketing is a sham, a fake, a scam, and a cheap, albeit expensive, trick.
I agree that the opening words in that BMW ad are stupid and dangerous, though the flash text probably isn't too harmful - but to suggest that all ads are a scam is a bit silly. Talented people put them together and there is an important creative process going on. Lots of your favourite films were made by people who cut their teeth on TV adverts.

Most TV ads are just a bit poor, due to massively reduced budgets - and, as you say, you can always turn the sound down or look away. We tend to record stuff on sky+ and FFW thru the ads. Every now and then something catches our eye and we watch it. Oh, and the ads pay for the programme making, so they're an integral part of the viewing experience.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 1 Jan 2011
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Posts: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by tima View Post
I agree that the opening words in that BMW ad are stupid and dangerous, though the flash text probably isn't too harmful - but to suggest that all ads are a scam is a bit silly.
I never said that those that produce them are not clever, nor accomplished. I never suggested that they should be banned.

Indeed some adverts are very entertaining and funny. That doesn't mean what they suggest their product will do for you is not an exaggeration at the least.

As for calling them a scam. A scam can also be defined as a confidence trick. It is to offer something that can't or won't be fully delivered. From that perspective I think advertising is exactly that.

I can't remember the last time I had a product deliver what they suggested in its adverts.

If you don't share that point of view, that is fine by me...
__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2 Jan 2011
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
I never said that those that produce them are not clever, nor accomplished. I never suggested that they should be banned.

Indeed some adverts are very entertaining and funny. That doesn't mean what they suggest their product will do for you is not an exaggeration at the least.

As for calling them a scam. A scam can also be defined as a confidence trick. It is to offer something that can't or won't be fully delivered. From that perspective I think advertising is exactly that.

I can't remember the last time I had a product deliver what they suggested in its adverts.

If you don't share that point of view, that is fine by me...
ASA - Advertising Standards Authority
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2 Jan 2011
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Posts: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by tima View Post
Thank you for that link. However, the existance of a watchdog does not automatically mean the effectiveness of that watchdog.

I had a cursory look at the codes on exaggeration and it seems to me that this Authority seems to apply a degree of flexibility to the simple, unambiguous guidelines listed.

Seems to me that the ASA (which only applies to UK aired ads, I believe) will only come in if blatantly exaggerated claims are made.

My point is that ad exaggeration is not always blatant, but is still there.

You pick any advert you like and then you ask yourself: what are they suggesting about the product and is this true to life? I do and in general the answer has been no: they are not realistic.
  • When you drive you car, the streets are never empty to be your urban playground.
  • When you wash your hair with a given shampoo, you do not have a mirror-like finish that has everyone's head turning .
  • When you have a cold, a lemquick will not restore you to full vitality and energy, sweeping aside every speck of phlegm and mucus
  • When you buy a motorbike you will not be as free as a bird.
  • When you drink that particular beverage you will not suddenly be a social success.
Then there are the "scientific" ads based on surveys of 100 people out of a potential customer base of millions....

You get the picture...

I can't remember the last time an advert, selling a product, that left me thinking "well, that is exactly the experience I have had of that product".

Now if my views have struck a nerve for whatever reason, well I'm very sorry, but these are my views based on my experience as a consumer... Consumers being the very people ads are designed to target.
__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making your own plastics Matt Cartney Tech 2 31 Dec 2008 20:27
Still making plans . . . Officialslacker Route Planning 0 11 Sep 2008 11:27
making my own Pannier for XT600 jonnyb Yamaha Tech 8 2 Oct 2007 16:40
Other ways into sudan moodicus Sahara Travel Forum 1 30 Jun 2004 15:39
ways to carry extra gas brauhausbier Travellers' questions that don't fit anywhere else 7 28 May 2002 08:50

 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:25.