I've put this in the bar just because its an idea at the moment, nothing much more.

I'm hoping to do a UK to Japan trip in 2014 (or Japan to UK) as my brother and family live there. At the moment there are two options I'm considering:

• Fly to Japan, buy a Mitsubishi Delica and drive home via russia, mongolia and the stans. Straightforward(ish) but expensive.

• OR, the subject of this post, ride to Japan on my XT with a sidecar. Ship home. Should also be straightforward(ish) but less expensive. Harder but more fun?

I've always thought sidecars were cool. Not sure why, maybe its a Great Escape/Indiana Jones thing. But there's a couple of things I'm wondering about.

I'm going to have to get a sidecar made - I thought a basic platform to which I can fit my own aluminium body. It wouldn't be designed to carry people - just stuff. Anyone know someone in the UK that would be able to build something like this? Simple and robust is what I'd like. And cost is a factor. I'd be looking to spend about a grand or so, certainly under two, is that unrealistic?

In the UK you can't use a sidecar on a bike on the right hand side unless you are visiting from abroad. I'm going to want to use the car after I get home, so it will need to go on the left. Is this going to cause me strife at customs or with police abroad?

Any thoughts on this? Anyone know any brits (or other left hand siders) who have done some overlanding with a sidecar recently?

Cheers for feedback,

Matt

__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Iain and Debz (currently away on denises scoots across the sahara) have an overland sidecar set up - you could try contacting them or andy and maya in Dumfries who are sidecar nuts as well and done lots of sidecar stuff. Here is a link to Iain and debzs rebuild at the workshop in Newcastle where the sidecar and bike frame were reformed quite a bit to suit his overland need. They are setting off in may rtw for a couple of years.http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762454

Hi Matt.
It's a great idea for a trip, one i started to pursue a couple of years ago (Triumph Trophy 900, Squire sidecar, Wasp forks,etc...) but kids moaning about being bored/cold/wet made me abandon the project. It would have been such a good challenge too...Here's what i found though.
Using L/H chair abroad - not a problem as long as it complies to the rules of the country it is registered in and where resides the owner.
Fitting a small spotlight on the L/H side of the chair as a running light is a good idea unless you want it chopped off by passing trucks.
As far as the chair itself goes,either Squire or Watsonian are pretty solid(and cheap) basically BUT the weak point is always how it is fitted to the bike.The mountings would need to be much better than what would suffice for normal road riding in this country. Also the sidecar suspension units are pretty crude on the above mentioned,no more than trailer-spec Indespension units on the older ones.
Then you need to consider the bike suspension. It'll be too soft as standard, especially the rear.Then the steering and forks......can you see where we're heading? It sounds like overkill but to just do a half-cooked job will make an unbearably tiring, ill-handling outfit that will rob you of the pleasure of the trip.Trust me i have ridden several of them!
The most knowledgeable guy i can think of to talk to would be Robbie at WASP engineering, although he can be hard work striking up a decent conversation with (he is an expert engineer after all!). 01722 792827.
Personally what I would do if i was going to build a genuine go-anywhere,do-anything outfit is find a motocross or enduro rolling chassis(WASP,EML,etc...) and fit the motor and bits from your bike.I have a good friend who has done just this and the result is astounding. If you want to talk to him PM me for his phone number.

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Just going for a short ride on my bike....

I think you should decide if you really need any real kind of off-road ability. Because most people don't stray that far from the asphalt on long distance trips really. Coping with rough roads doesn't require anything particularly special. The forces put on a sidecar and mounting arrangement when cornering should be more significant than what they'll suffer going over a few potholes.

I like to think I know more than most people about sidecars (I'm probably wrong), as I built my own from scratch. I am not a trained engineer by any stretch of the imagination. If you make something yourself it's easy to get exactly what you want. I think a sidecar specialist would be quite expensive for a totally custom setup. Some info about what I did might give you ideas.

I built it for an xs750, and chose to weld mounting brackets onto the frame of the bike as I wasn't bothered about resale value (it was a heap) and because it's easier/cheaper than making or buying frame clamps and more versatile. I made the sidecar chassis from very thick tubular steel (same outside diameter as scaffold, but thicker walled, 5mm I think) - I don't know if it was the most appropriate stuff to use but it was free reclaimed from the pub where I worked at the time. I used a trailer indespension unit - Hint, the lightest duty trailer unit you can buy will still be too stiff, you need to lengthen the 'arm'. I built a "trademan's box" body from 2mm thick steel sheet, the lid was removable, securely lockable, and about 99% watertight.

I later fitted a fiberglass body for carrying people, and narrowed the chassis to fit it and removed one of my mounting struts.


The first incarnation of my outfit handled really well. The sidecar tyre did seem to wear quite quickly though (maybe 6K to one tyre I think), and the bike rear tyre also wore quickly when on 'interesting' roads (eg in the alps). The second incarnation handled a lot worse, it was fine for sedate riding but not at all suitable for going fast round corners. I only followed the basic geometry universally advised for sidecars, not a specific design or plan.










The sidecar still exists in that (last) form, attached to a K series BMW, and I believe it is still going strong. The metal box setup was great, but in the end I found not being able to carry a passenger frustrating.

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UK to Mongolia 2009, on a DR350

Thanks for the replies, folks!

Interesting feedback and some great pics of the build on ADV. Adapting a second hand Watsonian/Squire might be a good way to go. I hadn't realised I'd need to uprate my bike suspension. I guess fitting stiffer springs would do the job, or would I need to go further?

Nath, I'm really intrigued by the possibility of building a sidecar. I had thought it would probably be beyond me but that set up looks quite simple. I guess it would be by far the cheapest option. Interested by your statement about not being an engineer. I'm willing to give things a shot, but more importantly my dad is an engineer (OK, roads not bikes!) and restores vintage cars in his spare time. Maybe if we put our heads together and I do the donkey work, we could build something that would work? I should say that full off road capability is not necessary - it just needs to be able to handle bad roads.

One question I have (and I'm really going to show my ignorance here!) - is there any movement between the bike and the car or do they form a single rigid unit? Some of the stuff I've read suggests that a sidecar can allow a bike to lean, other stuff that you are effectively riding a trike and the skill is completely different?

Thanks again for the replies. This forum never ceases to amaze in terms of how broad peoples knowledge is!

Matt

PS - love that last photo!

__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Feel free to copy anything you see here:

https://sites.google.com/site/yorkshireoutbacksidecar/

or here

https://picasaweb.google.com/1044429...87208674638290


I'd go with the build idea too, or at least an upgrade. The Watsonian was last really subject to serious design work on the 1970's. Since then they've in effect got away with it because most sidecars are bolted to a CB500/Bonneville/Enfield/Airhead and used to trundle the kids about for an hour or two on a Sunday. That said you'll see Velorex's fastened to Goldwings with scaffolding clamps that somehow survive. The Watsonian is infinately superior to some of these lash ups but not really UK-Japan ready.

Compare Naths 5-point mounting to the Velorex clamps you'll see used.

Wasp will make something that will work and keep working.

I'd avoid the platform idea. Having done the calcs there is no real weight or cross section saving, you loose the chance to use a box to strengthen the chassis and have the same woes as guys using soft luggage.

My chassis was made by another home builder, I did my own body. The chassis is just box section, if you can make a luggage rack no worries. The fittings you can buy from the sidecar builders (do not use scaffolding bits the heat treatment is wrong for use on something that vibrates). The running gear is a Ford Escort swing arm with a shock ordered online, so any car/bike restorer will manage. The body is just a box that any sheet metal work apprentice should knock up in a few hours.

99% of outfits are rigid and handle like nothing else on earth. If you've never DRIVEN one (think defective quad bike) you need to try before you buy. Leaners are rare and different again.

Happy to help if you need dimensions etc. I'm 200 miles South of you if you drink Tea or Coffee.

Andy

Matt I have to agree with Andy - before you go down this road go and ride a sidecar for a good few miles, they are a real skill to drive and steer totally different in right handers to left handers and don't really want to go in straight lines, You love them or hate them I do not think there is any middle ground more so if you are looking at big trips on one. Bye the way I fit into the hate to be on, in or ride them category (but I still can't help but admire the madmen that are the charioteers) Have a look at this link the russian take on these weird contraptions and if you watch it right through you see how well they can be ridden,but thats Cossacks for you. !http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN5PAwc1ns8