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  #1  
Old 10 Oct 2008
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Angry Selfish and Brainless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uganduro View Post
just how selfish and brainless can one be ?

people living in africa should remain with dirt tracks as main transport links such that filthy rich overlanding types can have their allroad "adventures"?

people die every day because of the time it takes to reach hospital over their lousy roads.
But that's not your problem, is it?

Because of poor infrastructure, high transport costs make goods & trading more expensive for the poorest, the further upcountry you go.
But that's not your problem, you've got money enough anyway.

Probably the africans should remain poor and jobless too, such that they can entertain you with their smiles, sitting under an old mango tree?
I had started a thread in the Sub-Saharan Africa forum lamenting the fact that all the challenging routes from Cairo to Cape Town were in the process of being paved. Bye bye adventure!

Uganduro piped up with the friendly quote above insulting anyone who would think of doing the Cairo - Cape Town for the adventure. You "filthy rich overlanding types"!

So, are we all being selfish and brainless if we are sad to see the end of the adventure?
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  #2  
Old 10 Oct 2008
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"They paved paradise, put up a parking lot..."

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  #3  
Old 10 Oct 2008
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Hmmm. That's a tough one. You both raise good points.

It is, without doubt, a tragedy that parts of Africa have so many huge incomprehensible problems. But, IMO, it's also a tragedy (to a much lesser extent, of course) to lose a great opportunity to explore and have adventures in these wild places.

But does the introduction of new roads and infrastructure really ruin the experience? I'm not so sure. It's not as though central Sudan will look like Vegas in a couple of years. If there's mile after mile of nice new blacktop from A to B, then you'll just have to take a different route via C, D and E. This, of course, may be longer and tougher... but it was "adventure" you were after anyway, no?

It's similar in "Western" countries too. Take France for example. You want to go from North to South. People on a mission can use the Autoroutes, and others, like me, can stay as far away from them as possible on the lesser, more interesting roads.

I don't think that the two issues need to fight each other.
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Old 10 Oct 2008
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I actually think Uganduro has a fair point - I guess it's inevitable that the primary routes become main thoroughfares, and if that helps aid and transport, it can only be good for the country/s and it's people...

...just as long as those countries don't become overrun with tarmac and greed (which sadly is also inevitable?), as per my quote above...

However, I'd also suggest it will be a long time coming before every inch of every road in Africa is tarmac - if you want an 'off-tarmac' adventure, there are still going to be plenty of roads and trails that will never be tarmaced, you've just got to stop following the well-worn routes and explore a little more?

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Old 10 Oct 2008
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I think Butchdiamond and I are thinking and posting the same... x
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  #6  
Old 10 Oct 2008
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African roads

Dont worry!! give it a couple of years and the roads will be knackered again!! its africa!
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Old 10 Oct 2008
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Hmmm, Uganduro has a point i feel. After all, our general interest in taking a backward step(?) and travelling on unsealed routes so we can get our fix of adventure is a personal choice of ours - but the locals needing improved infrastructure is surely paramount, especially in developing countries
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Old 10 Oct 2008
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Yes, a fair point made BUT just because we were born in the country we were and are able to do what we do doesn't mean we're "selfish and brainless" I think this many have been taken somewhat out of context
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Old 10 Oct 2008
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I'm not suggesting that we are are Selfish in our somewhat specialised interest i.e. overlanding, just that there are others who benefit at our "loss".And if a certain route becomes less adventurous to us then search out another, if practicable - adapt,improvise,overcome... eh!
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Old 10 Oct 2008
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Talking Indeed you maybe

As overland motorcyclists you may to a lot of other people seem selfish and brainless.As mostly all you seem to do is just pass through on the way back to your first world homes.After all who cant do it these days,all you need is a bike a creditcard and the will to do it.
Some of you may be helping some charity,but mostly not.
So really solo motorcycling is pretty hedonistic.
But most of the guys I meet are nice and I,ve seen a ton of go by.
I think the answer is to actually stay in one place during your trip for six months to a year.It will take that amount of time to get a true feel for that place wherever it may be and your trip won,t simply be a story of I went here,I went there.Instead of blasting past on the way to God knows where,get to know them speak a bit of there language,eat some of there food.What do they do,where do their kids go to school,what are their hopes,dreams etc.
Actually have a valid point of view instead of being another bike guy on his once in a lifetime big adventure.
Al theturtleshead
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  #11  
Old 10 Oct 2008
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Quote:
...all you seem to do is just pass through on the way back to your first world homes.
- Of course we do, that's what travelling's all about! Expanding our geographical horizons. And most of us have to return Home eventually (even though it's often a bind to do so).

Quote:
I think the answer is to actually stay in one place during your trip for six months to a year.
- And wouldn't that be nice, were it practicable/affordable.But to me Travelling is more the journey and less the destination.IMHO

Quote:
Instead of blasting past on the way to God knows where,get to know them speak a bit of there language,eat some of there food.What do they do,where do their kids go to school,what are their hopes,dreams etc.
- So we don't try? I'm not the most sociable bloke on the planet, but communicating with the folk along the way is something i try to do - you never know when you need a spot of help.

Quote:
But most of the guys I meet are nice
- So why the griping, Al? Most of the Hubbers here aren't Resort-types who isolate themselves behind security walls. We don't shut ourselves off,we mix with the locals - that's what bikers do...
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Old 11 Oct 2008
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effort

Maybe you need to try harder.
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Old 11 Oct 2008
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I wish they'd hurry up and build spaceships so we can ride on other planets like Mars
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  #14  
Old 11 Oct 2008
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Hi all, well this particular sefish motorcyclist began to read up about Morocco before his first visit-still to come. Soon it became clear that many people there are very poor. This concerned me. Then I heard that kids beg for "Un stylo" at the roadside. I realized that they can't go to school without the stylo/pen to write with. This concerned me. I heard that Moroccans are hugely friendly and are likely to welcome me to share a mint tea-with no payment or commitmet. That would not happen back home. This concerned me.
I felt I needed to be able to help the children and thank folk for a tea. After a time I settled upon an idea----My bike can take a pillion! So I can carry about 80kg on it to help/ say thanks. This idea has matured to me taking a HUGE load out to two schools. One teacher I found out about on HUBB! I am going to schools because I can really help rather than just be courteous. I have collected pens, books, wall charts and posters, finger and hand puppets, footballs, frisbees, dominoes, crayons, some paints etc and some embroydery threads. All this will JUST fit on my road bike which will be lightly loaded after school.
Someone will say something about guilt release or somthing but ,No, I stop to help if somenone has broken down and I just thought that vsiting a wild, barren place and going,"Ooh,Wow!" was rather patronising to the locals really what looked like adventure to me was also ogling poverty. So we're all individuals. ( I am NOT a religious person but a hang gliding pilot, biker, traveller and thoughtful individual.) I can now look forward to a very different trip as I shall experience Moroccan society in a deeper fashion than without this contact with teacherw, kids, school and families.
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  #15  
Old 11 Oct 2008
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For a different take on adventure bike travel see this. Takes about an hour to view and is worthwhile I guarantee.
Angola, it's not like they said. - ADVrider Linzi
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