Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Chat Forum > The HUBB PUB

The HUBB PUB Chat forum - no useful content required!

BUT the basic rules of polite and civil conduct which everyone agreed to when signing up for the HUBB, will still apply, though moderation will be a LITTLE looser than elsewhere on the HUBB.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Matt Cartney's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Edinburgh, Lothian, Scotland
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linzi View Post
Hi Matt I'd say get a copy of Taking Liberties book, by Chris Atkins, £I5 from amazon. Essential reading I think. Linzi.
Will have a look at that, thanks.

On a general basis, it's all very well us whinging about the government on here. If people feel strongly about the above, the best thing they can do is write to their MP or the relevant cabinet minister. You can do this online using this excellent website:

WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free

In fact, I am always encouraging people to write to their MP, its one of the few ways we can hope to have a marginal influence on policy. MPs are essentially vote grubbers and if they think enough people care about a subject they will start to change their opinions. A letter is far more effective than signing a petition (too easy to make names up) or demonstrations (a lot of students, thugs and anarchists go on them for fun without caring about the subject matter). I try to write to an MP once a month or so. Go on, you know you want to!

Matt
__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24 Feb 2009
todderz's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newcastle / Harrogate
Posts: 179
See also this article about RFID tags on bikes to prevent tax evasion

1 ELECTRONIC VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION (EVI) FOR MOTORCYCLES Background



This sort of thing wouldn't be necessary if not for the anti-bike bias of law enforcment and government, and the small minority of idiots who flout the law in ways that exacerbate that anti-bike bias.
__________________
RTW 2009 - Europe - Central Asia - Russia - Mongolia - Korea - Canada - USA

2010 - Near-fatal brain injury - hit by car while cycling

Scandinavia 2011 - Germany - Denmark - Sweden - Norway - Finland - Estonia - Latvia - Poland

Asia 2011 - Vietnam - Cambodia - Laos - Thailand - Malaysia

http://rideroundtheworld.com
http://facebook.com/AliTheBiker

"A study shows drivers responsible for 87% of accidents with cyclists. Another shows drivers fail to see 22% of cyclists in clear view"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Jake's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northumberland, uk
Posts: 716
Motoreiter, Your quite right common sense should prevail, however we are dealing with a massive monolith of a government here whos whole sytem relies on statistics, creating beurocat jobs and applying statistics and figures to prove / disprove whatever they want or need to show. Think of it a bit like parts of the old soviet system I am sure this government took a lot of the ideas of government from the worst parts of that soviet system. We have constant monitering of every aspect of our lives - for the safety and security of the whole of our people - must sound familiar.
However the motorcycle problem does exist but our police forces are stripped to a bare minimum on the streets and are now pushed to the limit chasing statistics and targets that all come from a controlling central government. Like many areas NHS, POLICE, FIRE SERVICE, SCHOOLS etc the government trys to run everything once upon a time -Not too long ago all these services were ran independent of central government and were better for it.
Bye the way the insurance companies already load various bike premiums based on performance, accident statistics etc etc.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Matt Cartney's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Edinburgh, Lothian, Scotland
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by adventure950 View Post
we are dealing with a massive monolith of a government here whos whole sytem relies on statistics, creating beurocat jobs and applying statistics and figures to prove / disprove whatever they want or need to show.
Was it Disreali who coined the phrase "Lies, damn lies and statistics." ?

Matt
__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Guest2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The German system is to ban motorcycles from the problomatic roads at weekends.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Posts: 973
First problem that springs to mind, assuming this is a scheme aimed at road safety, is that it invades the privacy of all motorcyclists purely to try and address the actions of a few.

I won't say that going for a mad blast is not dangerous, but not all those riders are going to be inept on the back of a powerful bike. This sort of strategy says that they are, including you, me and any other two wheeler out for the day.

I think that is wrong.

Technology can help in certain areas, but to my mind, instead of £100K this and £500K that, they should simply employ more police. They are far more qualified to evaluate the risks of given situation than a sensor buried under tarmac and they can move from one corner of the county to another unlike snsors buried under tarmac...

All this smacks of "La politique du saucisson".

Cooked sausage politics. What is that? Its an expression to lillustrate how one can keep cutting a thin slice of the sausage and munch away, then another slice , and then another, thinking there is plenty left. From one slice to the next its hard to tell its getting smaller.

Then, all of a sudden, that sausage is gone.

Now substitute "sausage" for "your right to privacy and the freedoms you take for granted".

These policies are doing the same thing. First "Safety" cameras, and CCTV, then tracking our movements overseas, and then these GPS systems, and now isolatiung particular groups. Each time such a move is made, the government waits until public opinion quietens down or something else grabs the fickle headlines and then we quietly start the next scheme.

Once all these systems are in place, for "safety" or anti-terror reasons, then it is so easy to change how they are used. By then its too late for the average joe on the street: welcome to Police State Britain....

Sounds meladramatic, and probably is, but I've long since stopped believing the reasons we are given for a particular policy.

The real motive is always another, IMO... Often revenue, but sometimes its more...
__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: England
Posts: 152
Personally i think its a load of rubbish dreamed up by a non-bikeing politician
If they want to improve bike road safety why not improve the level of training given and make the test more relevant to what bikers actually do how many of you go around town doing U-turns and slaloms. A better way would be to take new bikers to a track and teach them to handle a bike at speed (braking, posistioning and feeding on the power) then take them out on the road and show them how to apply their new skills to the road also teach them to overtake safely. Seen to many idiots overtaking on blind bends and crests recently now the weather is getting better. Then they should go through the low speed stuff.
Also a compulsory CBT for car drivers would make them more aware of bikes and how they handle
If they did this they wouldn't have to waste taxpayer money on a system that won't actually improve safety. Why do they need to know where the bikers have come from anyway, surely all they need to know is where popular bike routes are and then make them more bike friendly with safer barriers and improved road maintenance.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London, England
Posts: 142
£100,000 is one consultant for maybe two months, or 20 consultants for a working week. They will have a powerpoint of maybe 6 pages, listing problems with no answers.

This isn't going anywhere for £100,000. Maybe for 10x this.
__________________
http://bigben.to/ London to....? The big bike annual rally.
http://www.mongolbikers.com 125cc London -> Mongolia.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24 Feb 2009
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 612
No2ID

Just got back from the local meeting of NO2ID.net . I am afraid, very afraid and I am not trying to be poetical or creative. Personally I want out, rid of my UK nationality and that's that. Linzi.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 24 Feb 2009
John Ferris's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Reno,NV,USA
Posts: 563
I wonder

When they teach about George Orwell in English schools is it as
a warning or a goal.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 25 Feb 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sunderland, UK
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by todderz View Post
See also this article about RFID tags on bikes to prevent tax evasion

1 ELECTRONIC VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION (EVI) FOR MOTORCYCLES Background
The day that happens will be the day I buy a non-UK registered bike. Seems to work for Eastern Europeans working over here.

Why not develop detectors for white van drivers? There is as many of them driving recklessly as there are bikers and the van is far more likely to be used for the purpose of committing a crime. Are they persecuted like we are?

I agree that there is a problem with the mid-life crisis brigade but this isn't the solution to the problem.

I had been non-objectional to the ID card issue but now I'm convinced they and other statistic gathering exercises have a hidden agenda.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 25 Feb 2009
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Posts: 973
Minor hijack

I was indifferent to the ID card when it was first proposed. Namely because, being a French citizen to I was used to the ID card used in France.

Not so anymore. Not because an ID card is a bad thing, but anytime that Whitehall say that something is to improve security, I am very wary. It seems like the buzz-word to get public opinion behind it, by preying on the fears of the masses. So ID card in the UK for security I think is a red herring.

Ironically, over here in Estonia, they have a very efficient and user friendly ID system which, frankly, is geared to the public. You can do virtually everything online using PINs and your ID card as digital signatures. It is so easy to use. It also double as your public transport "ouyster" card, library card.... you name it...

Why do I get the feeling such a system would fall flat on its face in the UK...?

Anyway, sorry.....
__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 25 Feb 2009
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sunderland, UK
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
So ID card in the UK for security I think is a red herring.
Not much point in locking the stable door when horse has already bolted (English proverb).

Linzi, any thoughts you want to share with us from that meeting?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 25 Feb 2009
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 612
Moment Please

I'll get back with a link. I have been wondering how to make it thread relevant enough but that's easy. Soon we'll not be able to move freely minding our own business and I feel sure the days of motorcyles outside museums are coming to an end later rather than sooner. Linzi.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 25 Feb 2009
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 612
Delay

It could take time to find the link but in the next few weeks a lot of material is going before the house of commons and buried and camouflage in there is one innocent looking title which actually gives Govt the right to take any info on any UK person, share it with anyone they choose and this will happen unless the lethargic, sceptical public lifts a finger--it won't. This is for me too much. For the time being check out this morning's Guardian, slightly left wing newspaper: Fight against terror 'spells end of privacy' | UK news | The Guardian I am a level headed person but I simply don't like being stared at. Further, my NHS file contained the file of someone else up to 21 years of age--put that in the database and it becomes fact to them. I am still paying road tax for a car that went to the breakers 6 years ago. I love everyone everywhwere and wish all joy and happiness for ever. Linzi.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MCC Lands End Trial this Easter BOB UK The HUBB PUB 2 16 Mar 2008 19:01
Morocco Easter 2008 Dave Norfolk Sahara Travel Forum 6 28 Nov 2007 16:38
Why does the system log you out so soon... glasswave Website Feedback 3 30 Mar 2007 21:28
Morocco Easter 2007 chris Travellers Seeking Travellers 1 23 Jan 2007 23:37
Europe, Easter 2007, 10 day trip from Pompey dexter Route Planning 1 22 Jan 2007 15:44

 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:04.