Does anyone else have this conflict?

[Baron Bolton]

Apologies if this isn't in tune with the light-hearted nature of this area of the HUBB, but I need to get something off my chest, and hopefully get someones response.

I have this internal conflict that I'm trying to resolve, and it's all about the technology and money and the gadgetry I'm hoarding for my big trip.

I think it started when I was reading one of the (many) threads attacking the long way round boys. People were pretty quick to highlight the shortcomings of the way they did this trip, and keen to knock the kit and substantial backup resource they had for their journey.
GPS navigation stuff, satellite phones, winnebago following them round, survival courses etc.

I thought this was interesting, and made me think of the perspective we have on other peoples behaviour.
Imagine the thoughts of an elderly woman in rural Africa somewhere, walking miles to collect water. What is she going to think, when one of us overlanders rides past with £500 touratech panniers and the like?

Could this be comparable to our thoughts about the LWR folks?

This started something in my head about what I really NEED for the trip. It's often said that you can do the trip on ANY bike, and the most important thing is to just go and enjoy it. But there seem to be many more GS bikes riding RTW than the more moderate bikes.

So what I'm struggling with is this;

On the one hand the trip I'm planning (round the world) is a significant undertaking. To use anything but the best gear I can get hold of would be silly.

On the other hand the spirit of this niche of travelling is adventure. I'd like the feel of my trip to be a bit less about consumerism, and more about immaterial experience.
I've got a few bikes, why not grab my argos tent and everyday toolkit and leave. Get stuff when there's an actual need for it, and make do.

Sorry for the rant. I'm not expecting anyone to have to have the answer, just interested to hear other peoples take on this point.

Thank you

[oldbmw]

The truth is there is no 'right' or 'wrong' bike. The very fact that there can be so much discussion about what to get means that it is all 6 of one and half a dozen of teh other.

The trick is to get a bike that with which you are happy. It ought to be comfy and have a high chance of surviving the journey. If you like teh bike and find that it does what you want and expect then the likely hood is you will both get along fine.

Even seemingly unimportant things can make a tremendous difference to your riding experience.
an inch or so seat height for instance. My own bike a bmw, has never let me down and is a slab crusher par excellence..But I do not like it. and will change it next year (hopefully), Changing the front tyre from and Avon to a metzler made a huge difference and has (for me) improved teh handling and steering no end. Some one else might prefer it the other way round.

I think you need to have a reasonable range, and that is better done with fuel economy than by using a big tank. Cheaper and less weight.

I agree, entering some little third world village on a bike that looks like it just warped in from tatooine will get you a different reception than chugging in on something that technologically looks slighly familiar. My own opinion is the more technologically advanced the equipment the smaller the spanner needed to bugger up the works.

Others may argue differently based on their own experiences. In the end you pays your money and takes your chance. The best thing to do in my opinion is set up an account with a good worldwide shipper of parts for your bike.. and hope you wont need him.

[DLbiten]

Its all what you experience, seeing people walk for miles and miles from Mexico I cant help thinking where are they going and why I bet when they see me pass they ask. Why is a rich gringo spending all that time and money riding down here hot and sweaty sleeping in tent he can get a house here for far less and gust take a bus.

The long way down had people pay for the trip and all the gear plus paid the every one. You like the Idea of advertising for people and paying $40,000 to do it or getting 2 million to do the same thing.

As far packing all that gear I see people pack way to much most of time, I do and I take less than most. The beast kit depends on what you think is best are touratech panniers the best? I dont think so and I got a set.

I have had the same feelings Im going places where there are vary poor people that are getting on gust fine, all there belongs dont amount to price of gear I got in my tank bag. Bit of a let down deflates the ego. Why do I need all this when they do not.

As far a GS Vs any thing else I rather have a old r80 than a new r1200. BMW knows there target market well off people that like shinny funny looking bikes in the show room. Seen people ride 150cc bikes a lot ferther on a trip than I have ever gone. Can not see not riding some enduro but more than few have.

We get in the head we need this bit and that kit with this bike we dont but it feels right when we do. Im putting off a trip because I dont have my panniers mounted to the racks before that It was I dint have racks. I dont need any of that I can strap a duffel bag to the back and ride all a around the Americas did the USA with one. People less skill and experiance and money have done it. Fear, maybe loss of a ok paying job selling all I have to fund and free my self has more to with than I like to let my self know.

[Dodger]

If anyone HAS to have a 1200GS and a BMW clown suit to go with it ,because they THINK that is what they need to tour the world ,then I would feel very sorry for that individual .
Pick any bike you like , someone, somewhere will have ridden one for a long distance .
Are there more GSs touring the world than any other type ? I seriously doubt it .
Are other bikes more moderate than the GS ? What does that mean ? How does a 990 KTM or a VStrom rate ?Or an R1 ?
Reliability is the most important factor in choosing a bike , your ability to get yourself going again when it , inevitably , fails is another factor .
You don't need the latest technology .

You will encounter poorer folks than you , the world is not fair , there's not much you can do about it .Maybe give away your expensive Touratwat panniers and have some made by a local craftsman - help THEIR local economy .Give the old woman a ride on the back of your bike , save her legs a bit -eh !

Who decides what is the best gear ? Do you judge by price ? Is the most expensive the best ? How much of it do you really NEED ?

You could probably buy a used 250 and tour three continents for the price of a new 1200GS.
But maybe maintaining an image is important to you ,so an expensive big bike is essential ?
These are just questions that spring to my mind and not a personal dig at you .

Myself ? I'd just chose a simple reliable bike that would cruise at the speeds I like to travel , buy my gear to suit my purpose for the cheapest I could find it and not worry about what others think I should have . But I kind of like going against the norm , it's more fun that way.

[charapashanperu]

I ride a 650, but most of my touring has been on a old '72 Honda XL250... a beast!

But for my last trip in SA, I chose a bike that were a very common in the areas we were traveling. I don't want to be so far removed from the people that I can't really interact with them. And the best part: I took next to nothing in spare parts because every town had what I might need!

Yes, I took a $100 GPS because I was traveling roads (and trails) that were not on the maps, but that was it for the high-techness. 43 days, 3 countries, all costs (including the bike): $3,000. At that rate I could have done RTW for the price of one BMW!

[Charlotte Goose]

If I have grasped the catalyst for this thread correctly, the question you are asking is not whether or not you should take the best gear, but what should be the motivation for doing it. If its to throw yourself into all that the world has to offer and do so in the most comfortable and the least stress-free way then spend the money and take all the high spec gear that makes it possible. And there is nothing wrong with that, whether or not another overlander may have a negative opinion of your choices.

Just like the LWR guys. They wanted to do something, and wanted to do it in a way that they were probably more accustomed to. Aside from the money they may have made from doing it, I like to think that the idea did originally start as an adventure between two friends. The important thing, is the fact that they got off their arse and did something. One hopes that even with all their backup and gear, they have a better understanding of the countries and the people they came across than those people that sit at home on their arses and judge.

The key is to choose your motivation and accept the pros and the cons that go hand in hand. On one flip of the coin, if you take all the gear and accept the fact that you are going to come across countries, cities, communities, individuals that dont have a 100th of the gear/clothes/food you are using or carrying. On the other side, take the basics and accept there may be difficulties to overcome along the way....

I personally would go for the latter.....I mean we may hate the "difficulties" when they are upon us, but if it wasnt for the fact, say that you didnt have the right sized socket, and you have to walk a couple of miles to a village and find something or someone to help, you wouldnt have half the experiences. Or indeed (and I not advocating not taking GPS!), the simple things of asking for directions (which can always be fun and totally unproductive in a country where English is not widely spoken), or getting a local to try and understand a map that is foreign to them.

I think you have to be careful not to travel round the world on your motobike, in a bubble, unless of course thats what pickles your onion. Its like some people prefer to do package tours and some people prefer to just get the flight. I am of the opinon that the more things you posess that can solve your problems for you, the more likely you are to remain detached from the country or the people. Of course you need to take essentials, but what is essential to one person is not to another.

I have no idea if I am the right tracks here, but maybe something in my post makes sense?!

Char

[AliBaba]

Originally Posted by Baron Bolton

Imagine the thoughts of an elderly woman in rural Africa somewhere, walking miles to collect water. What is she going to think, when one of us overlanders rides past with £500 touratech panniers and the like?

I don’t think she knows the difference between a 1200GSA and a Vespa and I’m pretty sure she doesn’t care about Touratechs prices.

But she knows that you are white and probably carry more money then she will see in her entire life

[Threewheelbonnie]

Originally Posted by AliBaba

I don’t think she knows the difference between a 1200GSA and a Vespa and I’m pretty sure she doesn’t care about Touratechs prices.

But she knows that you are white and probably carry more money then she will see in her entire life

But, park a 2008 R1200GS in Yellow with full Touratech electronics alongside an 1980 R100GS in white with a map taped to the tank in say Dehli and the latter will sort of blend in with all the scooters and Bullets. You could turn up where the lady in your picture lives on the bus, dressed in any disguise you like and you'll still be known as an ultra rich westerner. It's the places inbetween where you might be able to lay low.

To me, you need to know why you have the technology. I have a rather nice company car. Lots of people will think i'm a flash ******* but when it comes down to it the "flash" car with 120000 miles on it makes more sense to the company than a different model that won't take the strain as well. Its the same if you use your bike gear as tools. If the best GPS and a BMW works, I say go for it. If you've only got it to insulate yourself from the world and are only doing the RTW for bragging rights in the pub when you get back, I think you are in the wrong line of travel. Likewise I wouldn't suggest travelling on a C90 navigating with your wrist watch and a page torn out of an altlas unless the getting lost, breaking down, meeting people thing is part of your trip.

It's a balance IMHO. Take tools with you, not status symbols and you'll be happy.

Andy

[AliBaba]

Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie

You could turn up where the lady in your picture lives on the bus, dressed in any disguise you like and you'll still be known as an ultra rich westerner. It's the places inbetween where you might be able to lay low.

There is no bus going to the place where the lady lives.

I responded to the part “Imagine the thoughts of an elderly woman in rural Africa somewhere, walking miles to collect water. What is she going to think, when one of us overlanders rides past with £500 touratech panniers and the like?”

So far I’ve only been in India by foot/taxi/plane but I don’t think they care to much if I drive a 1200GSA (which I wouldn’t) or a XT.

[henryuk]

I took a 2 grand bike and a lot of people outside of Europe thought that it must have cost a lot more, even had a cop who refused to believe that it didn't cost 20,000 dollars (assuming it must be the same thing as Ewan and Charleys).

For me the number one bike criteria is that it must be fixable/maintainable anywhere, so anything with carbs. True you have to carry spare throttle springs, o-rings, needles and jets etc for a long trip, but along with spare valve shims and collets this is less space than a spare computer type box thing. Annoyingly I also have to take belts (belt driven cams) - might go with something that has chain driven cams (Yam) or gear-driven (Honda dommie?) next time.

Dressing the bike down with scruffy luggage, duck tape, crash damage and splattered insects helps keep the 'flashy factor' to a minimum.

[geoffshing]

You will encounter poorer folks than you , the world is not fair , there's not much you can do about it .Maybe give away your expensive Touratwat panniers and have some made by a local craftsman - help THEIR local economy .Give the old woman a ride on the back of your bike , save her legs a bit -eh!

'Touratwat panniers'..? Is that your view of the people that buy them or the people that sell them? maybe you have similar ideas on BMW...... 'Big Macho Wanker' or XTe..... 'Xtra Tight Everywhere'...? We have different ideas for a lot of things especially when it comes to spending money but if somebody wants to buy the best they can afford or think they need, then go for it. they'll learn through good and bad advice and experiences. Why don't you stand outside the Ferrari garage, approach the customers and offer them a ford instead? Buying good quality kit doesn't have to be expensive but it does have to be good quality and if that means 'Touratwat' then so be it.
Your perfectly correct in saying the world isn't fair, it isn't and I've seen enough of it to agree with you but surely travelling around it on ANY kind of bike is still contributing to the nation your in? (Unless your flying your food/fuel in by plane). I'm going off topic a bit here I know but it is annoying when the trip of a lifetime for people gets mixed up with an enviromental awareness routine. Am I selfish in thinking I'm not here to save the world but to see it from the ground up whether I've spent 2 or 20 grand on the costs?

[teflon]

Originally Posted by Baron Bolton

...why not grab my argos tent and everyday toolkit and leave. Get stuff when there's an actual need for it, and make do...

The 'Argos tent' - an icon of the English summer. I love 'em. Not sure why they're classed as 'weekend' and 'festival' tents though? Maybe the rain's not as wet if you're only out for a couple of nights.

Maybe that's a clue to the 'conflict' you speak of. What does someone need for a third, fourth and fifth day that they didn't actually need for a weekend? Or, looking at it from a different angle, if something happened on a 'weekend', how would someone cope, not having everything with them?

Is this the path to packing enlightenment? I'm gonna ponder that right now.

edit: just wanted to add that I thought charlottes post made a lot of sense to me.

[MotoEdde]

Originally Posted by Baron Bolton

<SNIP>

On the one hand the trip I'm planning (round the world) is a significant undertaking. To use anything but the best gear I can get hold of would be silly.

On the other hand the spirit of this niche of travelling is adventure. I'd like the feel of my trip to be a bit less about consumerism, and more about immaterial experience.
I've got a few bikes, why not grab my argos tent and everyday toolkit and leave. Get stuff when there's an actual need for it, and make do.
<SNIP>

Thank you

Whether it be Charlotte, you, the guys from LWR, etc.; what's we should focus on here are the similarities and not try to create unnecessary conflict with differences.

We all want to see things different than our everyday experience and how we choose to defines our adventure/holiday. Going out and doing it is what is important as it requires a bit of faith in fate...our collective imagination will never match the hand dealt by reality.

So when you shove off for your big adventure, no matter how much you plan, you buy, you farkle...at the end of the day its the soft stuff that's the probably the most important to pack away: a good attitude, humility, open mind, spirit of adventure, etc.

Lastly, relative to gear/farkle...buy what you need to get you on the road...and have faith that opportunity will present itself for the rest of it...

[Dodger]

Originally Posted by geoffshing

You will encounter poorer folks than you , the world is not fair , there's not much you can do about it .Maybe give away your expensive Touratwat panniers and have some made by a local craftsman - help THEIR local economy .Give the old woman a ride on the back of your bike , save her legs a bit -eh!

'Touratwat panniers'..? Is that your view of the people that buy them or the people that sell them? maybe you have similar ideas on BMW...... 'Big Macho Wanker' or XTe..... 'Xtra Tight Everywhere'...? We have different ideas for a lot of things especially when it comes to spending money but if somebody wants to buy the best they can afford or think they need, then go for it. they'll learn through good and bad advice and experiences. Why don't you stand outside the Ferrari garage, approach the customers and offer them a ford instead? Buying good quality kit doesn't have to be expensive but it does have to be good quality and if that means 'Touratwat' then so be it.
Your perfectly correct in saying the world isn't fair, it isn't and I've seen enough of it to agree with you but surely travelling around it on ANY kind of bike is still contributing to the nation your in? (Unless your flying your food/fuel in by plane). I'm going off topic a bit here I know but it is annoying when the trip of a lifetime for people gets mixed up with an enviromental awareness routine. Am I selfish in thinking I'm not here to save the world but to see it from the ground up whether I've spent 2 or 20 grand on the costs?

Whoops touched a raw nerve here -eh ?

A lot of the Touratwat stuff is vastly overpriced and marginally useful [ not all mind you ] , but if it "floats your boat" , more power to you .
My main point was to NOT be a lemming or a techno snob with your equipment purchases and ,if your conscience bothers you ,to make MORE use of the goods and services available in the countries you visit .

[Warthog]

I think Charlotte Goose hit the nail on the head.

What you need on an overland RTW bike trip is a bike and some sort of luggage arangement, hard or soft.

That is it. Which bike is up to you and there is no righ or wrong answer, just right or wrong for you...

If you intend to rough it a bit then you also need shelter, and a means of cooking.
If you want to be able to fix your bike by the side of the road you need some basic decent tools.
Then, you should probably get a spare pair of underwear, in case you eat out, or need to soak up an oil spill.

After that, take what you want, that you tihnk will make the trip more fun, less hassle or both. I agree that it is better to travel light if you can, but light is subjective.

What ever you buy, get cheap, get expensive; does not matter, as long as you are happy with the price and its good kit as you will rely on it. If you don't, it's not worth taking...