This has happened already it's what I've been saying for a long time, if we (the west predominently) react to terrorism then we've already lost. (See my previous post).

In a decade, how many more mercenaries do you think could be trained by Al-Qaeda? There are operatives in every country, they are lying low now, but will emerge and will seek revenge, in 6mnths, 2yrs or 20yrs... my point is there will always be terrorism. The question is (or should be) how are you going to change your life, or not to deal with that fact?

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

Can the UK have another 'Bank Holiday' Please

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'He who laughs last, was too slow to get the joke'
Never confuse the map with the journey.

I think the words of Martin Luther King sum it up for me:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that"

Are you sure those are the words of Martin Luther King?

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

+1
Peace & respect to all people, cause all people deserve it.

Is anyone tired of this war yet?

I don't think so.

Bin Laden was a tired old man, with ailing health (if the reports are to be belived), the potency of his possition has long been reduced and Al Qaeda as a force was no longer a real threat (the real threat comes from other groups).

Anyone who has bothered to learn a little about this type of terrorism wil agree that there is no leader, Bin Laden was a figurehead only, someone to look upto (in the eyes of some). And by killing him Osama has made Laden a Martyr, elevated to faith where no harm can come of him. In short, What Asama has done is taken a weak snake who has long since lost the power of his bite, and given him more power than we can imagine.

Obama says the world is a safer place, forgive me if I think that is nothing more than an attempt to secure a second term in office.

Bin Laden has died for no other reason than to boost the votes in the White House.

And seeing the mass groups in the US having a party, makes them no better than the groups of terrorists chanting when the twin towers fell.

What Obama should have done, was despatch Bin Laden and said nothing. But where is the voting power in that ?


A Little over 2000 years ago, if the books are to belived, the Romans eliminated a terrorist, they paraded him for all to see so that the ideology would die. Today, Christianity has spread the world over, people have died in wars to support it, the old Europeans set of on crusades to spread the word, and even footbal is effected by it.

No, you cannot kill an ideology with the bullet, only increase it's draw and power.


I would like to think I am totally off the mark here, and utterly wrong. Lets hope so.

Osama Bin Laden was killed for his direct role in the 9/11 attacks. He was executed and it was just; I say that as someone whose family live in New York so please, no bleeding heart liberal shite about trials and justice. Justice was served and served well - congratulations Seal Team Six - you did a helluva job and all true Americans are proud of you.

Celebrating the demise of the world's greatest terrorist may be crass but I didn't see anyone burning Pakistani flags in front of the white house, burning effigies or chanting "death to ******* "(insert figurehead of choice) - the difference between a liberal democracy and a pariah state where the people are not free. Americans (some of them) may be fearful and ignorant but they are not hateful in the way that some people in less free countries are.

As to Al Qaeda not being a substantial threat any more - I do not for one minute believe that; there is a long way to go in TWAT (the war against terror).

FFS, Is this a travel forum or a political soapbox ??

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'He who laughs last, was too slow to get the joke'
Never confuse the map with the journey.

You saw the title of the thread - why read it if you are not interested? Most people who travel appreciate that stuff like this affects us. Surprised you can't see that.

Hola,

YES, this is a travel forum and not a soapbox. You are right palace15.

THE FIRST THING that a traveler on the road has to learn, dont get involved into political or religious discussions or arguments !!!

And it is never good to kill anybody, because maybe you are next.

So, pls stop this thread here.

Good night from Salta Argentina

Mika

Firstly, it is a travel forum but if the mods thought the post to be inappropriate then it wouldn't by now still be here.
Secondly, if you do travel it may be handy to understand a little of the influences, political or otherwise, on the places you go.
Thirdly, in certain situations/circumstances it is right to kill someone. You cannot state it is always wrong to kill no matter what. It all depends though on your own interpretation of what the right reasons are.

I see TV pictures of Americans dancing in the streets and chanting U-S-A. I read the Arab press and see well formed arguments about how this was bound to happen and the guy was going to get what he deserved one way or the other,but it will still act as a recruiting call to some who are on the edge who will now support whichever extremeist cell is on the up. It really doesn't help my fears about religious extremeists having the most powerful weapons in the world when they don't seem to get the fact that you can't bomb or shoot an idea. If you can't get to the middle east, try reading a bit of T E Lawrence, there's even the odd explosion to keep the chanters happy.

Andy

These are two points utterly missed by Obama. I noticed other world leaders are being rather quiet about this whole 'party' attitude to what has happened.

There is a very good book by Jason Burke called Al Qaeda - The true story of radical Islam. The <part> quote on the back reads "shows how eradicating a single figure or group will do nothing to combat terrorism"

The other point to make, if any other country in the world had flown into the US, taken and killed a number of people and flown out again the response would be very brutal, servere and swift. I find it very worrying that any world leader thinks it's justifyable to break the sovereignty of an ally in this way.

I actually though Obama was one of the more astute US leaders, clearly I need to redifine my view.

The 'War on Terror' has already been lost, if you are in any doubt just try to take an international flight (I have to frequently). The freedoms have gone. No water, no liquids, X-rays, searches, long queues, etc. Just using the word 'bomb' anywhere within a 3 mile radius of an airport will get you arrested. The terrorists have struck a major win, and they will lokk for ways to exploite any furth holes. These holes will be closed with more restrictions, removal of more freedom for the public, and so the cycle goes.

As was shown in Northern Ireland, you just cannot fight ideology with a gun. When the groups started to talk things started to happen, and today it is a very different place to the place I visited 20 years ago.

What happened in New York happened, and yes it was right to close the book, but I still maintain it should have been done quietly so the man just vanished.

I agree that there may be an element of revenge for the 3000+ people murdered on 11th September 2001 but this was a righteous kill. IMHO - and that of many, many people.

We are at war, he was the enemy and was killed within the rules of engagement under which his assailants were operating - big boys games, big boys rules I'm afraid.