The procedures for maintenance of modern bikes makes me crazy.

The owners manual for the DL 650 has 6 pages of instructions for how to remove the fuel tank !!!

The GT model has one ruber band to remove.
The GSX model has one 8 mm bolt to remove.

On the DL model, you have to lift the tank to replace the air filter.
(6 pages of instructions beore you get to the air filter)
On old bikes, you remove / open the seat. And there is the filter box.

On the DL model you have to remove the fuel tank (Remember ? Six pages) to be able to top up coolant.
On the GT, you open the cover on the tank.

How can you design stuff this way ?
So that it requiers six pages of instruction to rempve the fuel tank.
And so that you hide regular maintenance items as Air filter and cover of coolant reservoar?

For changing the main bulb(s). You have to remove the whole panel !!
On the old bikes, you removed 3 screws...

On the DL, you have to remove the cams to replace shims.
On the GS engine, you could compress the springs and replace the shims, with the cams in place.

I get the idea of restoring an old bike, and skip the new one.
It is to much hazzle to maintain this type of stuff on the road.

A shaft driven Suzuki GS 850 . A winter in my garage.
And I will have an reliable travel bike, with bullet proof engine. A bike that is easy to maintain.
Krauser panniers and here we go.
23 liters of fuel. What modern bike can match that ?

https://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_GS850

Basically I agree. On the other hand, I had my DL650 in the shop for its first-ever maintenance of any sort (aside from tire and oil changes, plus periodic spritzing of the chain with WD40 followed by no lube whatsoever). At 18,000 miles it needed nothing at all--valves still in spec, chain not worn (but with one tight link), air filter had accumulated some bugs, spark plugs all fine but changed while the fuel tank was off, etc.).

By the same mileage, my same-vintage KLR had needed a couple of tuneups, chain and sprockets, added fuel filters, bits of wiring modification when fuses blew or safety cutouts malfunctioned, valve shim changes, and extensive engine work due to a grenaded doohickey. In the balance, the DL has required less maintenance despite the greater complexity.

Just one more data point, whether relevant or not.

Mark

Well, we have different ways to look at things.

I have restored bike during 20 years, 1-2 bikes per year.
And done 97% of the work myself.
I do not use work shops to do regular maintenace.
Only for things that require expensive machinery. Like boring cylinders, valve seat, valve jobs.

Just to have to give the bike to a workshop for regular maintenace shows the problem I described.

=
I had my DL650 in the shop for its first-ever maintenance of any sort...
At 18,000 miles it needed nothing at all.
=

Gives 2 follow up questions:

) How may hours did it take the workshop to come to the conclusion that it needed nothing at all ?
2) What was the cost for that ?

Tongue firmly in cheek...or not...

You DO want the dealers to stay in business right? And who do you think KEEPS them in business? Certainly not the home mechanic. And the factory knows that. BUT they also have to make bikes lighter, more reliable, more powerful, better handling, more comfortable - and pass emissions regs and get great fuel mileage - AND SELL to a fickle cheapskate public. I'm glad I'm not a designer, way too many conflicting needs.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Far less than my KLR had cost by the same point in its long, generally reliable life.

I'm not on this thread to debate the relative merits of doing your own work vs. hiring it out. At this point in my life, doing my own work is much more difficult than it used to be (various arthritic body parts, a few chunks of metal where used to be bone and flesh, some spine surgeries, bad eyesight), and it costs me more in missed work opportunities (self-employed) than it could ever save in shop charges.

I've done my own mechanical work quite a bit in the past, starting with my first car, a 1967; I do very little now. And while I complain as loudly as everyone else about the increased complexity in everything around me, I also notice that everything aside from household appliances generally runs better, longer, and with fewer repairs. Oddly enough, much of it is even cheaper in constant dollars.

I might see it differently if working on motorbikes was my idea of a good time. It's not--I'd rather ski, mountain bike, hang with friends, and ride. YMMV, naturally.

Mark

I met a happy biker yesterday.
He used to ride a Suzuki DL 650 (as I often do).
But the bike had got some kms on it, and time for maintenance...
Something he is used to do himself ( As I am)
And he was so disappointed with the complexity of the Suzuki that he changed bike.
He had exchanged the Suzuki for a Royal Enfield Himalayan.
And now he is happy again



Maintainability is an important characteristics, for some of us.

On the Tenere 660 ABS version I took around the world the battery was under the tank. It was 12 or 14 bolts/screws to remove and 3 tubes. And it was quite complex, the last mechanic who tried to take the tank off gave up! And with all the electric issues that bike had it needed the tank off several times pr week….what a nightmare… One of the reasons I never ever will touch something with the Tenere name on again, or hardly any Yamahas at all….

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In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

It's the saving grace of the DL650. Mine is the same: to the local independent shop every ~20,000 mi- check the valves (they never move) and while in there: change out plugs, air cleaner, and flush the coolant. Never anything wrong, and the bike is totally reliable. Now at 55,000 miles. Other than home oil changes, it costs a few hundred bucks every 20,000 miles.

If I'm doing the work, I would much rather work on my DR650. It's reliable, but does need more service- every 3,000. Fortunately, it's simple enough to be fun to work on.

..............shu

Regarding my beloved DL650. Yes, getting to the valves and even just the air filter can be a real pain.

However, being the farkle addict that I am, I've taken off and reinstalled the tank seven times now, and I'm getting ready to do it for the 8th time to replace a fuel pump/filter, clean the K&N, swap out the coolant and replace the plugs preparation for an about 8,000 mile Mexico/CAM trip.

The first time sucked. However now I've done it so much I can, without exaggeration, get the tank off the bike in 20 minutes, and get it back on in less than 1/2 hour. (Getting to the cam chain tensioner 12mm rear cylinder bolt is entirely another story.)

Like anything, the first time sucks, but subsequent times are light years easier.

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2022 Yamaha T700. Vamos a viajar en America Latina!
30,000+ miles in Latin America by moto and counting.

And it's getting worse.

I work for a Suzuki/Kawasaki dealer as a technician. Bikes are designed to be built as quickly and efficiently as possible now. With almost no thought process going into the ease of servicing or repair.

Fairings are becoming intricate webs of clips and fasteners that break if you breath on them. Some bikes now need the entire rear section removing with half the electrics to access a battery or air filter.

However, it does get a lot easier the more you do it and the more you learn your bike. 90% of the frustration is working out how to do it really. I can pull the tank, airbox and throttle bodies of a DL650 in twenty minutes. Because I know how. Because I've done it many times.

Take the time to work your bike out whilst at home in a warm, dry garage. And it will be a doddle when on the road.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

This is a major problem. Even if you know how to do it.
All thee small plastic stuff that is done for fitting once. End then never to be touched. And we are talking about new bikes. Imagine in some years, when the plastics are harder and more fragile

Might be a business idea. Keep your work shops busy. And earn more money after the sell, than from the sell itself.

And it gives you a new type of customers. The ones that not even change oil. But just leave the bike to the dealer for xxxxx km/mile service.
And the dealer needs a computer with correct SW
=
Maybe wrong thread to talk about HD. But this is what HD has done. In Panhead and Shovelhead times you needed to have your tools with you. And know how to work with them. Now they sell a huge amount of HDs, to people that does not know anything. And would never dream of bringing out their spanners. But they can drive HD with HOG patches on their back. And pretend beeing hard core bikers. Without this change, HD would be dead.

Yesterday I replaces the air filter on my Brazilian made Honda from 2003.
And do not try to convince me that it is not a reliable and robust bike. Even it is almost 20 years. It is even more robust and easier to maintain than "normal" Hondas, since it is targeted for the South American market.

I l

• Lifted the seat
• Remove 4 screws
• Lifted the cover
• Replace the filter
• Back with 4 screws and seat

Time spent : 4 minutes
Tools needed: On PH2 screw driver
Total cost: 35 €

Picture 1: Element in bag
Picture 2: Air cleaner cover. You see 3 of the 4 screws
Picture 3: New filter element in place

Attached Thumbnails

 

 

 

In defense of KLR I feel compelled to pipe up . It is a slow day , something to entertain .
My 2000 KLR now has well over 250 000km on it , the engine has never been out of the frame,the head has never been off . A bike- shop mechanic was called on for a bit of work only THREE times , and that was only because each occasion was while on a travel out of range of my own tools. Once in Texarkana to diagnose/half cure a misfire which,later back home , was found to be due to a perforated petcock diaprhagm , once to rebuild the water pump in Logan Utah (I had ignored the early symptom drip at home ), once to get a broken exhaust pipe support bracket welded in Tepic.NAY.

I have done all maintenance on it following directions of a Clymer manual ;" the doohicky ", replaced chains,sprockets , brake pads ,-disks ,tires , clutch cable and any broken levers, light bulbs ,battery , steering head bearings as needed . Exchange of valve shims is the most technical job , but easy enough after the first time and they are rarely needed when checking once every three or four years . Then it is a matter of either buying a shim of the required thickness or that can be a used shim from another valve position OR a used shim bought for $1 or free from the stock of used shims at a dealership . Do many of you know that several other brands of engines use the exact same size of shims ? Currently my KLR is running with a mix of Kawasaki ,Suzuki and Yamaha sourced shims .
.Oil & filter change is done at 7- to 10- thousand km interval with basic 10W40 . The engine balance spring (*doohicky) gets adjusted at every 5000km , a one-minute job at roadside . Grease the nipples on the suspension occasionally , give the bike a wash maybe twice a year , and a new spark plug after 2 or 3 years .
I once rode it home from Oaxaca in second gear because the tiny detent spring on the gear shifter had broken and I decided it was simpler and cheaper to ride for fun than to wait weeks for the $4 part AND required water pump O-rings and cover gaskets to show up .Now I carry a spare spring and will change it out when the water pump may need a rebuild.

The KLR is reliable , straightforward and cheap and simple enough to work on , quite not the layer-cake build up of parts to remove as air filter and check of valve shims on my V Strom ,or to fix the transmission or clutch on a GS 1100 .

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http://advrider.com/index.php?thread....207964/page-5 then scroll down to post #93

New Member and 1st post on HU.

I can’t speak to the V-Strom for RTW, because I haven’t done it. I have taken 3 trips back and forth across the U.S. traveling through very remote areas. The trips were 4800 to 7300 miles each. Removing the tank for valves and the air filter is a reality, and a pain. But I’ll probably only do it three times in the life of the motorcycle - about every four years when the coolant needs to be changed.

For routine maintenance, all I do is lube the chain when I get gas, change the oil every 5,000, flush the brakes every 2 years, and do chain and sprockets every 30,000 miles or so. If the bike doesn’t break much, it doesn’t matter much that you have to take a bunch of plastic and the tank off to do the plugs and valves.

The bike is a 2015 DL650 with 57,000 miles on it. I did the valves, coolant, replaced the plugs and the air filter with a KN at ~22,000 miles. I’ll do it again at 75,000 miles. If I have the bike at 125,000 miles, I’ll do it again.

I put a Guglatech filter in the tank, so I won’t have issues with contaminants from bad gas.

YMMV

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Suzuki DL650XT So God created man in His own image … male and female He created them. Genesis 1:27