Price for Toyota Landcrouiser

[Kevin]

Decide first of all how much you want for it and sell it to the first person who has that amount. You might be told it's worth more down the road but this isn't usually the case.

If you do start to drive around selling it then word tends to spread, they will know how much you refused in the last place etc. etc.

Kevin

[mardz]

What about other brands of 4x4 (Pajero, patrol?) Does anybody have experience/ heard how easy/profitable can they be sold in West Africa?

[Andres]

Does nobody question the practice of selling very old cars for ridiculous prices to people far less rich than we are?

Andres

[Roman]

Originally Posted by Andres

Does nobody question the practice of selling very old cars for ridiculous prices to people far less rich than we are?

Andres, you are absolutely right. It is bad and it must be stopped! Cars are ugly, smelly and dangerous. So if the rich people stop selling them at ridiculous prices maybe they will be replaced with carts pulled by nice, cuddly donkeys.

[Luke]

Andres, I think you ought to pop down to Mori to see for yourself.
There's a lot of poverty, it's true; and ironically the generosity of the people I have encountered increases with the level of poverty and the distance from the cities.

However the people who buy cars from Europeans are very frequently considerably better off than the person selling the car.
The prices are dictated by market forces, that means there is a demand.

We only discover we are poor when we have to deal with money every day, when we live in clusters and depend on others to bring food to our supermarkets in trucks, when there are bills to pay because we haven't collected our fuel ourselves because we're too busy earning not quite enough to pay someone else to collect it for us; or when we've bought a house that costs too much because we want to live near where we're working for only just enough money to pay back the house and the heating and all the people who bring us our food.

Oh dear, that felt good.
Our version of wealth is a vicious circle/trap, what we call poverty is bloody hard for those living it. There are no solutions that don't create their own problems, you can't just give to reduce poverty so taking a means of transport into a country whose occupants lives are improved by being able to travel is a help.

[Quintin]

Well said Luke. Furthermore, a vehicle, beit old or rusting, can give it's owner a means of earning a living.

Regards
Q

[moggy 1968]

Originally Posted by Roman

Andres, you are absolutely right. It is bad and it must be stopped! Cars are ugly, smelly and dangerous. So if the rich people stop selling them at ridiculous prices maybe they will be replaced with carts pulled by nice, cuddly donkeys.

my cars not ugly!! it's beautiful and cuddly, although it does niff a bit, or maybe thats me?

[Andres]

My car (HJ60) was absolutely ugly but wow, it provided good means of travelling in Africa
OK, apart form Roman's reaction, I get the point from the reactions to my question.
I have been there and seen it. I met many 'car-sellers' and noticed that in general, they were different from travellers like me and others who take their vehicle and use it only for travelling. From my point of view travellers make a (very small) contribution to the lives of those they buy food or fuel from. The 'car-sellers' in general seemed to be more interested in their own profit than in Africa itself.
But from this link (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...er-dared-24320)
I understand that it's dangerous to ask questions for which there's no simple answer.

Kind regards,

Andres

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Andres

I met many 'car-sellers' and noticed that in general, they were different from travellers like me and others who take their vehicle and use it only for travelling. Andres

The regulars are a slightly strange lot it's true, but the nature of a successful sale is that both parties come out happy, which is pretty much always the case.

From my point of view travellers make a (very small) contribution to the lives of those they buy food or fuel from.

You haven't seen my wife in the african markets ;-)

The 'car-sellers' in general seemed to be more interested in their own profit than in Africa itself.

Aren't we all?
If we weren't we would be far from the internet, without a job, living and working with the people we exist to help. There are people like that and I admire them.

Africa cannot be helped from the outside.

The more we give the more we develop an "open hand" culture.
If you haven't paid for it you don't appreciate/look after it.
I don't know where you went but where I went I saw "new colonialism" all over the place.
The EU are doing it on a huge scale; go in, create infrastructure (as a donation of course), take out resources. If you don't let me buy your ore etc. I won't give you a new road.

It's cheaper than the old colonialism because you don't use guns and as the country's independant you don't have to install hospitals/schools/police etc.

There are individuals and groups impressed by dramatized (to sell) press reports who will do that for them.

Coacoa is Ivory Coasts's oil, and it's creating as much trouble (but it's tastier )

Buying stuff locally, exporting, encouraging local work groups, trying to reduce the temptation to migrate to the cities, these are some of the many actions help in the LONG term.

Lending works better than giving (cf. recent Nobel prize)
Probably because the borrowers attach more value to the object received if they have to pay it back.

Oh dear I've done it again.
I haven't the courage to delete this, I'll leave that to the administrators.


Daedalus, what ARE you on about?
You get a carnet before you go, and it's worked out on the most expensive country, and its price depends also on the issuing country.
But all that info is available here if you do a search.


Luke
(got the Africa bug, you can tell)

[Andres]

Originally Posted by Luke

Africa cannot be helped from the outside.

The more we give the more we develop an "open hand" culture.
If you haven't paid for it you don't appreciate/look after it.
I don't know where you went but where I went I saw "new colonialism" all over the place.
The EU are doing it on a huge scale; go in, create infrastructure (as a donation of course), take out resources. If you don't let me buy your ore etc. I won't give you a new road.

Agreed, I saw the same.

[dohanjansen]

Our main motivation for selling our cars is time. I have a maximum of 5 weeks holiday. If you want cross the Sahara there is just no time driving back. Selling and flying back does the trick.

Back to the topic of this thread. We just returned from our trip Tunisia-Algeria-Niger-Burkina-Benin-Burkina-Mali.
I sold my 1992 TLC HDJ-80 for 10.500 euro in Mopti. The trip confirmed my earlier writing that Mopti is the best place in Mali for selling hj60 hj61 and HDJ80. Offers in Algeria and Niger were less. For selling a short 70 series you are better of in cities like Bamako. Bargaining with buyers, check-up by the local mechanic and endorsement by the mayor of Mopti took 1 day.
No hassles, tricks, business was handled correctly and smoothly. My feeling is that the hassles are getting less these days. Having sold 12 cars in Mali my last bad experience dates back to 1999. Stick to the rules and you will be fine. Manny advice to changing Hotel and/or City after the deal is closed. In my oppinion this advice is outdated.

Dohan

[moggy 1968]

Originally Posted by Daedalus Films

Isn´t the carnet tariff taxes in Mauritania 110% the value of the vehicle, while in Mali it is 55%?

you don't need a carnet for mauri!!