Plan B for Pakistan

[Schlegel]

Hello

I plan to be at the Iran/Pakistan boarder going east to the KKH and India after , around end of October 2011. Since two Swiss in a car got kidnapped in Loralai 10 days ago, I'm thinking of a plan B.

- Does anybody else has a plan to be there at the same time to form a convoy?
- What could be a plan B: fly from Teheran to Dehli? Take a train from Quetta to Lahore? Does anybody has some information/idea about a plan B?

Thank you for some ideas and comments. Our families and friends are in big worries, since the news are full of negative information about the Pakistan, especially the quetta area.

Roland
www.timeoutonbike.com

[Mombassa]

I was in Loralai in 2006 and spent 5 weeks in pakistan all together. I would go again today. I found Turkey a lot more dangerous. If you are careful and use common sense, nothing goes wrong. A car means you have money, hence you are more of a target. A white guy one a motorcycle is a poor guy in their eyes. In Loralai, there are a few different types of tribal police. They will all track you down and chat with you and see what you're up to. Pick one of the better hotels on the main road (very busy). They all have interior courtyards for parking. Don't worry, go through Pakistan ... it's one of my favorite countries.

[MikeS]

Remember these are rare but high profile instances, maybe similar to the way North Americans think about Mexico given the huge coverage the localised drug wars get over there. I was on this road in summer of 2008 and had to have police escorts from Dera Ghazi Khan to Kingri but had none from there until the border with Iran.

I was advised to take a better hotel in Dera Ismail Khan by the police who put a guard outside all night. I had trouble getting a room at all in that town as I was considered a 'security risk' by hotel owners. None of them told me that though, they all told me they were full... I was also told by the police not to take the direct route (N50) to Quetta as it was dangerous but go south (I took the N70). I even had dinner with a whole army division up the road from Lorali in Kingri one night and someone still managed to steal my petrol cap (just kids - I got it back).

If you speak to the police/army, they will ensure you have an escort (or more likely you won't have a choice) and will advise you on the route to take. Plus it looks like there are 3 of you on separate bikes so a lot harder to stop than 1 car. Heck, I went through Abbottabad and never even bumped into Osama!

The whole time I was there, I didn't encounter any trouble, the locals were very friendly and really helped me out when I broke down one morning outside Dera Ismail Khan. Trust me I was worried when no lights came on when I turned the key and the main fuse was fine (turned out to be just loose battery connection) but the locals gave me a sheltered area to work in and brought out a fan and gave me cold drinks. You can see the crowd that gathered in my video (@ 2.40) below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=ssGBg7XGKWQ

There is a train from Quetta to Islamabad but takes something like 28 hours, I nearly considered it but thought 'sod it' and rode instead, was glad I did. Obviously keep an eye on the situation nearer the time but the biggest risk you are likely to encounter is from the local driving!

[pecha72]

Where this kidnapping happened - East from Quetta - used to be off-limits for foreigners (at least it was so at the end of 2007), and I believe the police wouldn´t allow tourists to take that route back then, so travellers were escorted to take a more southern route (via Sukkur). We also did that detour. Somebody had even tried to take the ´shortcut´ via Loralai, but got firmly turned back at a police checkpoint.

Any info on what the official policy on tourists going through the Loralai / DG Khan area is now?

[Mombassa]

Originally Posted by MikeS

Remember these are rare but high profile instances, maybe similar to the way North Americans think about Mexico given the huge coverage the localised drug wars get over there. I was on this road in summer of 2008 and had to have police escorts from Dera Ghazi Khan to Kingri but had none from there until the border with Iran.

I was advised to take a better hotel in Dera Ismail Khan by the police who put a guard outside all night. I had trouble getting a room at all in that town as I was considered a 'security risk' by hotel owners. None of them told me that though, they all told me they were full... I was also told by the police not to take the direct route (N50) to Quetta as it was dangerous but go south (I took the N70). I even had dinner with a whole army division up the road from Lorali in Kingri one night and someone still managed to steal my petrol cap (just kids - I got it back).

If you speak to the police/army, they will ensure you have an escort (or more likely you won't have a choice) and will advise you on the route to take. Plus it looks like there are 3 of you on separate bikes so a lot harder to stop than 1 car. Heck, I went through Abbottabad and never even bumped into Osama!

The whole time I was there, I didn't encounter any trouble, the locals were very friendly and really helped me out when I broke down one morning outside Dera Ismail Khan. Trust me I was worried when no lights came on when I turned the key and the main fuse was fine (turned out to be just loose battery connection) but the locals gave me a sheltered area to work in and brought out a fan and gave me cold drinks. You can see the crowd that gathered in my video (@ 2.40) below:

‪Asian Staring‬‏ - YouTube

There is a train from Quetta to Islamabad but takes something like 28 hours, I nearly considered it but thought 'sod it' and rode instead, was glad I did. Obviously keep an eye on the situation nearer the time but the biggest risk you are likely to encounter is from the local driving!

Nice Video! I wish I'd had that technology back in 2006 when I went through. Seems you had some ugly weather at the Chinese border. It is really stunning when it's nice there. Seeing this so wants me to drop what I am doing and start traveling again ...However, I am leaving in April for South America, then onwards to Asia etc. on the R80G/S. Here is the Chinese border in the sunshine: main

[Mehmet Zeki Avar]

Hi Ronald,
You have a honest and respectful mission and that will be much appreciated
in these countries.too..They will ask you the same org.for their countries..

There is no dangerous country anywhere as long as:
Your plan is full of honesty, you obey rules and respect traditions.

1-No airfreight available from Tehran for bikes. If you plan this, do it to Katmandu from İstanbul or any other European country by PIA..
2-Be careful for food and water..Thats most important..Danger is here..
3-You will be asked same questions hundreds times on the road so you will never forget your name, where you are from, etc.!!!!!!

Yes, news are always full of negative information..Sometimes realities are hidden by governments as they decide what you must learn and hear..
Anyway,this will be the most interesting part of your trip.
Lets keep in touch...

Wish you all the best..
zeki.

[Franconian]

I am currently in Pakistan. Just returned from the KKH and head to Iran soon. I don't feel unsafe. The people here are very friendly and hospitable.

The road via Loralei is not permitted to take. Also the Indus Highway down from Peshawar via D I Kahn.
I was told to take the road down to Sukkur and then up.

Cheers,
Frank

[MikeS]

Cheers, that was just a little compact camera so not great quality. Yes it got a bit cold up there, in fact I think I even put my jacket back on for that part!

You'll love South America, really want to go back there

Originally Posted by Mombassa

Nice Video! I wish I'd had that technology back in 2006 when I went through. Seems you had some ugly weather at the Chinese border. It is really stunning when it's nice there. Seeing this so wants me to drop what I am doing and start traveling again ...However, I am leaving in April for South America, then onwards to Asia etc. on the R80G/S. Here is the Chinese border in the sunshine: main

[estebangc]

Hi Schlegel,

I live in Switzerland and have been reading the news about the couple kidnapped in Loralai. I will try to summarize.

[They were driving back from India to Europe in an old blue VW LT campervan. They were escorted by the police til Loralai. Once getting there, they were supposed to be escorted by the tribal police from the outskirts of the city, but they didn't show up. Pakistani authorities said that this was the problem, keeping on without escort, and that was a failure of their logistics as well. 4 or 5 gunmen -who had never seen in the city- stopped them and kidnapped them. Reports say that there was not violence at all, no signs of it in the car (even some money left in the camper), so it was a terrorist action, no bandits at all. He was a policeman in Bern, she was an ex policewoman (trained people, not just karate lessons twice a week).

Talibans declared that they were taken to south Waziristan, which is already some 300kms far way and which is definitely a no-go area, but no other clues about their whereabouts. In French, last news from 13th July I read in 24heures newspaper].

I understand your concern. Last September my girlfriend and I were in Iran and had to decide whether to cross Pakistan -after the huge floods- or fly over it. At some point -initially, we planned in Nepal- we had to leave/sell/abandon our car -cheap, old Renault 5-, but I 100% wanted to do that in Kathmandu. Big discussion for us (I get to insist too much), but a trip in a couple is a matter of two (although my mother didn't care anymore about me, but about her: "listen, you let Esteban go alone and you wait for him in Goa on the beach, if he is stupid, just let him go, but you don't, ok?"). But my girlfriend was not willing to do so either. We made a pact: a friend working in the UNHCR who know the region very well would decide for us. I had previously said "yes, but avoid Waziristan and Swat Valley", but after the floods he said "don't go, it is a humanitarian catastrophe, you won't enjoy it and it is more dangerous now, and they should spend their resources in their people, not in escorts" (lats sentenced knocked me out at the time, although still felt like going, selfish). Now my girlfriend shows me the news about the Swiss couple and says "we did right" (but I still regret it, sick). We flew with Mahan airlines from Tehran to Amritsar, sticking the most to the planned route (after importing the R5 in Tehran to get the CdP deposit back).

So, no experience on it (although I promised to come back one day by motorbike to PAK), but just one thing: forget any bravado style, arrange a convoy with other riders/drivers if you can and stick to police escorts all the time, no matter how slow/annoying they may be (as others complain). After the recent news, you would feel too idiot otherwise if something had to happen. And enjoy the Pakistanis as much as you can, since everyone says they are absolutely great. If not, just enjoy Iranians, they are incredible as well, so amazing. Difficult decision (for us, it was).

Have a nice and safe ride,

Esteban

[KevOK]

The only trouble I had in Pakistan in 07 was trying to ditch my military escorts.
Great place, great people.
I hope you like tea.

[Schlegel]

Thank you all for the 1st hand information.

At the moment I'm still waiting to get the passport back with the Pakistan VISA. If we get the VISA, we will make the decision when we arrive in BAM. Otherwise I see only one option to take a ferry to UAE and after from Dubai to India.

Any experience/information about a ferry from Dubai to India?

Thanks
Roland

[pecha72]

Originally Posted by Schlegel

Any experience/information about a ferry from Dubai to India?

No experience, but at least 3,5 years ago there were no international ferry routes going anywhere from India. They actually opened one - to Sri Lanka - just about a month ago. But the Persian Gulf is much further away. Sending the bike/car as freight should be possible (but sending to India can be a troublesome experience I think!)

[Schlegel]

The Pakistan embassy doesn't release Pakistan VISA for landway for swiss at the moment.

Does anybody has experience to get the bike from Iran or Dubai to India?

thanks for any advice.

Roland

[dnicoletti]

Originally Posted by Schlegel

The Pakistan embassy doesn't release Pakistan VISA for landway for swiss at the moment.

Does anybody has experience to get the bike from Iran or Dubai to India?

thanks for any advice.

Roland

hi,
i was forced, in 2007, to fly the bike from tehran to mumbay, as for no pak visa issued me. went to tehran airport and got the deal with Sama rah cargo service. they`ve managed the whole thing in a couple of days, all inclusive, 600$. i flew, with iran air, on the same fly with the bike. in mumbay it takes me one day to get the bike through the airport custom. that`s could be a right solution for you. if may iran air still fly to mumbay.
you should to check it out.
regards

www.lungastrada.it

[Schlegel]

Hi denicoletti
thanks for your message, this gives us a rough idea about the cost. Our Plan B in worst case would be to take the plane from east Iran or even Dubai.

Maybe for other traveller interesting, below link to the Pakistan railway:
Welcome to Pakistan Railways (thank you Omar).

Roland