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Other 4wd Overland Tech Brand specific 4WD / 4 wheel, 2WD and Trucks
TECH discussions and info for NON-Land Rover or Toyota.
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  #16  
Old 21 Dec 2011
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Hi

Im not sure that there has been a crossing of wires.

The issue was around the fact that you could in theory have a 20 ton vehicle that is registered as a motorhome which would then qualify it for a class 4 ( Car MOT )

The suggestion was that people in this position should take it for an HGV test.

Myself and Grizzly7 were simply highlighting that it would be the wrong test and therefore on paper you would be without an MOT. A gift to an insurance company when trying to get them to pay out.

If VOSA have decided that a class 4 test is the right test then thats what you should have to stay legal..

Im not sure that the weight of the vehicle has any bearing on the test required. My understanding is that the type of test is determined by the registration classification on the V5.( not weight) so Im not sure what your friend has achieved by having it's weight downplated.

He may have had it re registered a a Private Heavy Goods Vehicle, ( Class 4 test and lower tax ) but if he is now using it for any comercial purposes then he is totally illeagal and not insured. He would not of had to have the weight downplated to achieve this.

Weight however, is a big factor in Driving Licences. Maybe your friend has a newer licence and can only drive to 3500 kgs so he has had the vehicle downplated , hence the poor payload.

I wouldn't want to be involved in an accident with him, sounds a bit weary and griefy to me

Neil
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  #17  
Old 21 Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdisjunkt View Post
With regard to the tacho, if the vehicle is taxed as Private HGV, you do not need to use the tacho.
As far as I'm aware, any goods vehicle over 7.5KG regardless of use must use a tacho and the driver must record their working / rest hours, unless it's converted to a motorhome.

Also from 45 years of age onwards, every five years a HGV holder must have a private medical and renew their entitlements to carry on holding an HGV licence, this can only be done up to 4 months in advance of a birthday, which maybe a pain if travelling at the wrong time. Gp's are charging in excess of £100 normally for these medicals btw.
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  #18  
Old 21 Dec 2011
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The key to Tachos is the use of the vehicle.

If the vehicle is being used for any sort of comercial gain or hire and reward, then it is very likely that drivers hours must be recorded.

If the vehicle is classed as Private Heavy Goods PHG, of which a motorhome over 3500kgs is one of the types of vehicles that falls under this catagory, No tacho is required.

Even a 10 ton truck ( HGV )classed as being used for non comercial use does not need a tacho even though it would be tested at an HGV station.

You can complete and sign a non comercial declaration at the time of the test.

The recording of drivers hours is about use not just about size



If anyone has gone through the process of importing such a vehicle to the UK from germany as an HGV and later having it converted to a PHG ie a motorhome I would love to hear how they got with testing etc and the DVLA.

Thanks

Neil
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  #19  
Old 25 Dec 2011
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trucks

hi
we got our truck from germany and it was plated at 75000kg, but is a 911 and can take 10,000kg.
it is a simple procedure to register a truck in the u.k, it took us 10 mins at the local vehicle licensing office with our new mot cert from the local gov mot centre.
you have to go to the same places as the hgv trucks go as they have to jack up the front to check the wheel bearings and local garages do not have the lifting gear.
stay away from phoning the goverment people for info on this as they have not got a clue, we drove into the uk with temp plates for germany and this included insurance as well.
most vehicles can be down plated to 7500kg before you buy it from germany and then you can drive this on a car license depending on your age, tachos are no problem no need to get it re tested as it is not a valid piece of equipment in a class 4 motorhome.
it is very easy to import a vehicle from germany just do it,
i would say good luck but a monkey with one hand could do this unless he has a job on a help line for the goverment...ha ha
dave
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  #20  
Old 28 Dec 2011
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Thanks for all the advice. Assuming truck is suitable for de-rating to under 7.49 tonne, anybody know what the process is. Is it just paper based or do I actually have to take the truck somewhere? Also is it easy to reverse - ie if we do it for a while but then want the extra capacity, can original registered weight limit be reinstated?

Cheers Toby
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  #21  
Old 29 Dec 2011
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Hi toby.
if you are buying from germany and it needs a tuft.mot. then you may be able to get it down plated.
as for up plating should not need i,t if your mobile home is more than 7,49t when empty and you need to get it mot,d then remove some kg,s from the back to pass.
where are you thinking of going and how long for this helps in the should i do this or that.
dave
whats your truck again and have you thought about a 917 MB with a back allready built, they sell them on mobile,de from construction sites and have a door and windows allready in this would help with class 4 mot.
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  #22  
Old 30 Dec 2011
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Hi, its a uk truck so need to understand uk process for de rating.
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  #24  
Old 29 Jan 2012
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The need for tachos was enacted following EC Council Regulation No 3821/8 which basically identifies the need for goods (trucks) or passenger (coaches) vehicles to be fitted. There are dozens of exceptions and exemptions in the UK domestic legislation, and it’s altogether muddy.

If your registered body type is ‘truck’ or similar then you will usually need a tacho to get through a test as this implies the carriage of goods. One useful exemption is available whereby if your ‘truck’ is under the 7500kg limit you are able to declare it will never be used for the carriage of goods and in this case VOSA will happily accept the signed exemption form (available on their website) and test the truck w/o a tacho. There are other exemptions but none are ever likely to be of use to overlanders.

If your registered body type is ‘motor caravan’ then it’s a presumption that the vehicle is no longer a goods vehicle and is therefore outside of the EC directive so doesn’t need a tacho. However, if you carry anything that could be deemed goods, you may find yourself in trouble. Goods do not include personal effects so as long as you only have with you what you need for camping, and don’t engage in commerce, you should be OK. It would probably be a matter for the courts to interpret on a case by case if you were ever challenged.

Motorcaravans of any weight can be subject to class 4 tests, but these can, I believe, be carried out at a VOSA test station so you can still have a thorough VOSA test if you wish. Probably wise to be honest as they are set up to deal with the size and weight of trucks and in most cases understand the different systems better, such as air brakes for example.

In summary, if your registered body type (V5) is truck, or goods vehicle of any type, you will need a tacho in a 10 tonner. If you are registered as motorcaravan then you will probably be OK without a tacho depending on interpretation by the officials you are dealing with.

Probably worth pointing out too that taxation class is an entirely different and barely related entity to body type.

I agree with others that there are far fewer problems all round (not just tacho related) if you can keep under the magic 7.5.
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  #25  
Old 5 Mar 2012
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It has to be converted before the MOT or will be subject to the tachograph and LGV test.
As someone mentioned earlier converted to a motorhome it's class 4 MOT but small garages may not be able to jack it up. I took my Bedford to two garages that do lorry MOT's but they didn't have the approved jack for the test.
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  #26  
Old 8 Mar 2012
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Hi Bedford MJ,

Had a look at your truck construction photos, very nice!

I notice that you have attached the frame to the chassis with bolts through hangers.....do you have spring mountings further up the chassis towards the front?

We used 3 spring montings towards the front on our truck and then used body ubolts towards the rear. Always interested to see how others have done it.
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  #27  
Old 8 Mar 2012
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Further to what I think DTH was alluding to , ie chassis flex , have you tried driving the vehicle over uneven terrain as I think you might have problem with the chassis twist that these vehicles experience especially with regard to the camper structure and its connection to the cab , better to find out here than on a unmade road miles from home ? Other than that you have a really nice unit there .
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  #28  
Old 9 Mar 2012
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Yep. What we did on our truck was to put a long M14 bolt through the body frame hanger, dropping it through the chassis mounted hanger, then push a chunky spring onto the bolt and tighten a chunky washer and nut up against the spring.....so to allow a degree of movement as the chassis twists.

You can see what I mean on page 004 of this CBF download (bottom left picture)

http://storage.cbf.uk.com/pdf/BODYMOUNTINGBRACKETS.pdf
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  #29  
Old 9 Mar 2012
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Good link DTH.

I also share the torsional stress concerns for BedfordMJ but I guess much depends on intended use. I live near Highwood Horseboxes and would be happy to look at the truck and share some ideas.
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  #30  
Old 9 Mar 2012
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From looking at bedfordmjs's truck in the flesh at the self build clubs agm a few years ago, it is impressive but I don't think he intends to take it across africa et al so it wasn't something that was a design constraint. Getting on and off campsites is the off roading that it does I believe
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