One week in Russia, Bike or Train???

[fcasado]

Hi Guys,

My girlfriend and I will be travelling around Europe, and we'd love to spend a week in Russia, mainly St. Petesburg and Moscow.

Should we leave the bike in Finland (Or Estonia) and get on the train/bus into Russia or we'd be Ok riding there?
As we're planning just a week for Russia we dont know if we'd spend too much time riding and end up seeing nothing!

Thanks very much
Fernando & Maraisa

[Jake]

I think the experience of riding into Russia and crossing the line into the once closed country is worth the ride itself and St Petersburg is wonderful to visit as are many of the surrounding areas. But realistically the facts are - The road to Moskow is long and poor (Motorway)- mainly and Moscow is not the best place on a bike. Russian driving can be pretty bad/ Dangerous at times. Bike Security is always a problem in Russia and the police and authorities can be a real pain so this can cause problems more so near Moscow. Then if you have breakdown or accident ??? these are other problems you need to consider - however for me this all makes it an adventure more than a holiday and mostly the Russian People are generous and helpful If it were me I would take 10 days and do the trip (oops! I already did this year)with my wife as pillion we both loved it had no hassle really and just a wonderful experience with great tales to tell. And we are saving for a bigger trip into Russia in 2007.

[fcasado]

Adventure950,

Should we consider riding into St. Petesburg, leave the bike there(in a secured parking) and get on the train to Moscow???

Some people say that Russia is absolutely fine, and some say Never ride there...We're quite lost to be honest!

Thanks very much for the inputs
Fernando & Maraisa

[simmo]

It would be easy to spend a week in St Pete and its surrounds, it would also be easy to spend a week around moscow. I took two days to get from St Pete to Moscow by bike because I stopped alot and didnt want to ride at night. Moscow traffic is dense.

If your going for christmas take a train!

http://users.netlink.com.au/~asimpson

[JonStobbs]

I travelled between St.peter and Moscow 18 months ago(trains and busses) and thought then"glad i'm not doing this on the bike"! The road between the two cities is as previously mentioned a "main road",although if you have an image of nice smooth blacktop you'd be forgiven for thinking you'd taken a wrong turn somewhere.Certainly not a motorway in the western sense,more like a 3 lane road with a common overtaking lane(suicide lane)....without any white lane lines to give any guidance where each lane starts and stops! I flew to Moscow,stayed with a friend and we went to St.Peter by "coach"(another story altogether...) which with only 2 brief stops took 11.5 hours.Fair play to the driver(there was only one) who not only managed to avoid several head-on's but also stayed awake the whole trip.Needless to say we took the train on the way back which took just under 5 hours if i remember(fell asleep for a bit).I did'nt see any bikes on the highway until we got to about 20km from St.Peter and then there were loads,all big sports bikes.
I don't mind a considerable ammount of risk when riding,and certainly arn't affraid to go exploring in some dodgy places,but i do get a bit nervous when it's other road users who are the danger and you are totally powerless to do much about it! Train is the best bet and cheap too.

[fcasado]

Simmo and JonStobbs,

Thanks very much

I think we’re gonna do it by train then, leave the bike in St. Pete and enjoy the views!!

Simmo, we’re going there in August/2006, on Xmas we probably would freeze on the bike, and we’ll have 10 days by the most, unfortunately not enough time!!!

Jon, you’ve got it, that was exactly our concrerns….time and dangerous drivers!!!

Anyone ridden from Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania (Even Finland, whichever is the best) to St. Pete???How is the road up there??

Cheers
Fernando & Maraisa

[vincent danna]

hello,

in april 2002, i drove through the baltic states then russia. roads are ok, nothing special.
i put some info on http://vincent.danna.free.fr/infos/russie.html

but things have changed since : visa, insurance for the bikes, ... as you can see on this forum (you can search a bit, there's plenty of practical info).

russia was great, friendly people, knowing a bit of russian helps, liking vodka also :-) no problem, worth riding for sure, as my friend simmo and others can say.

happy trails,

ps : in st pet : st pet guesthouse (www.ryh.ru) is worth, not too expensive for st pet, well located, they can help for the visa process and more. for more info on places to stay, you can check the latest lonely planet.

[Jake]

Hi Again, I think you have got some great advice for your trip. I think getting the train into Moscow is the best bet - However trying to get secure parking without accomodation in St Petersburg was for us a problem - you wont believe this one - the car parks would not take a bike as the parking places and prices were for cars and cost $5.00(US) per 24 hours, but a bike is not a car and was not allowed to take up a car space! so I offered $10.00 night/24 hrs Through a russian contact and this was still refused I eventually parked the bike in the basement of the flats I rented and chained it to a radiator. - Out of sight of prying eyes. However outside of St Petersburg secure parking cost about 100 rubles / 24 hrs. Also I travelled back through the border into southern Estonia then Latvia and Lithuania where the roads improve over russian roads and are by comparison excellent. We found Riga to be pleasant enough but very very touristy and a bit overpriced but also visited Vilnius and found this much more pleasant. The roads between are heavily policed and huge fines were given to some riders we spoke to on the road for minor speeding offences (300 euro official fine / 200 euro no paperwork bribe) I could not and would not have paid this size of fine but it really made me keep my speed down whilst in Lithuania!. Entering Poland the roads and driving in eastern Poland were worse than most that russia had thrown at me and it was very very dangerous travelling through this part of poland because of the very poor road surface conditions and totally insane driving - I was forced off the road once to avoid head on collisions with two cars overtaking one vehicle both cars overtaking each other at the same time taking up the whole road.Be careful also bike security here seemed to be a major issue in the cities. Dont however take this lot as a negative I know it sounds it but in comparison to the positive side of travelling in these countries these points are a tiny bit of the overall positive and excellent trip we had. Go enjoy the ride and really enjoy the countries.

[Jake]

Fcasado, Thought I would add this one on what bike are you using because to be honest if your using a sports/ sports tourer bike be very very wary of the roads there are potholes and gravel sections that are at best uncomfortable on a big trailee bike and would be very slow or dodgy on anything else - the further you get from the main cities - St Petersburg - Novgorod - Moscow then the roads deteriorate at an alarming rate I use a ktm950 which was superb but i would have struggled on a tourer or semi tourer - simply it would have slowed things down lots more. Think of the roads as similar to the taxiways you find around old disused WW2 airfields that are all over our countyside then you get a good idea of what to expect as an average.

[vincent danna]

if you like riding, just ride ! whatever the eventual problems or difficulties are, in russia or elsewhere.
but, frankly, it ll be a good experience, most of those who have ridden in russia will encourage you.
happy trails,

[4wheels]

Dear fcasado
I did the Finland - StP - Moscow journey in August - September 2005 . Parts of the road are very very good - dual carriageway. Other parts are single carriageway with the very aptly named suicide lane in the middle. The quality of the tarmacadam varies from 'eupropean' to 'crazy paving' - cracked all over - to 'ridged' where the trucks have made their own tracks. Other parts are under (re)construction. The journey StP to Moscow would take about 10 hours with the odd stop (in a car) - bikes probably faster. Finland Border - StP about 2 hours. Moscow - Finland is doable in a very long day. The speed limits vary and there are police with radar guns hiding about which the oncoming drivers mostly flash you if there is someone hiding and you're going too fast.

There are already numerous posts in the North Asia forum and Trip paperwork forum dealing with the documentary requirements for taking your bike into Russia. Also posts about speed limits and fines - though I was let off (116 in a 75 kph zone).

I concentrate on the time element - you only have 7 days. You lose 2 days on the road so only have 5 days to see StP and Moscow. StP probably needs 2 - 3 days IMHO leaving 2 days for Moscow - insufficient really - choose what to do before you go. Some trains are faster than others but you won't save that much time - you will arrive less tired by train obviously - it's your choice.

The only thing that I'd be wary of is leaving your bike - but I'm paranoid about such things. A good local contact or recommendation would give peace of mind. Don't tell the secured parking people you're 'going away' for a few days! Maybe there are ome other posts about suitable palces to leave your bike.

Have Fun

Les

[This message has been edited by 4wheels (edited 20 December 2005).]

[fcasado]

Vicent,

Thanks a lot for you encouragement, we appeciate it…But as we do not have a lot of time we’d end up seeing just the motorway (Or whatever it looks like)…We love riding though, but as we’re gonna be for 4 months on the road and want to see many countries a week off might be welcome!!!!

Adventure950,

What a shame…haha,it’s unbelievable how people can be bureaucratic sometimes!!!!

Thanks for the info about the parking, really good to know it…

I was thinking right now to get on the train in Helsinki (leave the bike there, might be safer) and go to St. Pete (5 ½ hours) and from there to Moscow, then back…I did a search about it and what surprised me:

Helsinki – St Pete – US$ 50.00

Riga – St. Pete – US$ 18.00 (Although it’s more distant)

Wondering about Talin – St. Pete train, but couldn’t find it!!!

Do you know if it’s difficult to get hold of secured parking in Riga?
We’re gonna think about it now, and if you have any more infos, please let us know…Thanks a lot for the input about the baltics and Poland, that’s exactly the route we’re planning to do, and entering in Poland to see Auschwitz (don’t know how to spell it).

About Poland, loads of people saying that they forgot all about the trafic rules…Poor Margus (estonian guy that take awesome pictures and post'em in the HUBB), unfourtunatelly he had an accident there, he was hit by a *£$%*** driver…
The only thing we can do it is be careful, but doesn’t help very much when the other ones don’t!!!

We’re probably going on either a V-trom 1000 or a GS1100, not sure yet…So, should be Ok (I hope..hehe)

Thanks a lot


Les,

I’ve been reading your posts…about the accident that you had there, the payment from the Russian Insurance (Very, very lucky I think…)!!
Speeding limits in Eastern Europe (and Russia) seems to be the way the policemen (not all of them of course) get the bribes, that’s why they crack on it…

You’re absolutelly right about the time…And as I said before, we don’t wanna rush about and don’t see the cities!!!Aparentelly St. Pete is nicer then Moscow, is that right?

About the parking…I’m very paranoid about it, wouldn’t be very nice have to fly home without the bike…And theft is very likely to happen if we give the chance…

We’re very happy about all the feedbacks, thanks very much all!

Fernando & Maraisa

[4wheels]

Dear fcasado
StP is more 'compact' than Moscow which is very very large.
One way to save time would be to take overnight trains - sleepers between Moscow and StP. That way, you don't lose daytime. I'm not an expert on trains and times but I think this is the way to go. Go and see red square and the kremlin - especially the 'armoury' where they keep all the jewellery, tiaras, crowns, gold - hopefully they're not 'on tour'. Stay somewhere central ie walking distance if you can afford it - saves more time.
My insurance? Well I do speak russian and used to live there. Played my cards well and in the right place. Was also prepared beforehand.
The ride to StP from Finland seems to be fairly laid back from a car point of view but on a bike, you'd need to be careful - russian drivers aren't used to bikes. Make sure you have all the paperwork and get the insurance at the border. S Woolley did a good post in 2004 (?) about the Valimaa border crossing in one of the forums.
I am sure you will enjoy StP.
Rgds
Les

[Robbert]

There are trains between Moscow and Saint Petersburg like every hour or so. Some go faster then others. It's worth to try and get a ticket for a slower overnight train as to get you 8 hours sleep or so. Tickets have to be ordered well in advance (bring passport of all travelers etc, your name is on the ticket and will be verified with your passport before you get on the train.

Saint Petersburg might be smaller then Moscow, you'll find yourself running around much more. Moscow has such an incredibly good (and interesting!) metro network that everything is easy to reach.

It's a shame you don't have more time. Moscow realy is exhilerating!

[fcasado]

Robbert,

Thanks very much...

We're probably gonna take one overnight train and one daylight (on the way back), that's because we'd like to see the Russian countryside as well...Dont know if there is something intresting but I think it's worth a look!!!!

If you have any tips please let us know...

Cheers
Fernando & Maraisa