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  #61  
Old 4 Sep 2012
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Primary qualities in a tent - my opinion

I prefer that a tent has the following qualities:

  1. Two pole, free standing, for ease of set up. I hardly ever tie or peg my tent down. Also, I hate "trip wires"
  2. No vestibule - it usually requires an extra pole and usually also needs to be tied down. Less convenient to set up. I also don't like having to crawl through it and over all the luggage that usually finds its way there.
  3. Poles in many short sections for compact packing
  4. One layered tent for easy set up and compact packing
  5. Doors with mosquito nets
  6. Ventilation flaps with mosquito nets
  7. Taped seams
  8. Robust composite poles
  9. Poles attached using clips rather than pockets for ease of set up and to prevent tears
  10. One tent per bike, except for shorter trips or if you are attached at the hip with whoever you are traveling with (friends should be free to split up)
  11. Built in foot print, robust bottom, for ease of set up
  12. Tent one size bigger than the number of people that will use it to accommodate luggage and for comfort. Exception if you really want to pack very small and can make do without the added comfort and convenience. I prefer not having my luggage in a vestibule where bugs and animals can get to it, where I have to crawl over it, or where dirt or the damp ground makes my life more complicated - I always bring whatever I need inside.
  13. Long enough for your mattress and for you not to have your head or feet pressed up against the fabric
  14. Preferably two doors, one on each side
  15. On on small one person tents, the door should be on the long side
  16. Fat pegs that will hold in soft ground
  17. Inside pocket to store various items like flash light
  18. Small height and foot print makes it easier to find a place to set it up, reduces the chance of hawing it blow away or getting it flattened by the wind, packs smaller and lighter
In short, pack small and light and be easy to set up.


I have too many tents as is, but there is always progress in technology and design and two of my two person tents are well beyond their expiration date (cheap tents). I need a new tent, so please feel free to post links to two person tents that fit my requirements.



Some additional tips:


a broken pole can be repaired using a piece of from a soda can and some tape, wire or plastic strip ties - so no need to bring an extra piece of pole for repairs.



Tools, sticks, eating utensils, knife, rocks, your panniers, and your bike, can all be used in place of tent pegs, so there is no need to bring a complete set of pegs. On the rear occasions that I do tie and peg down my tent, I usually get by with securing it in a few places only, and as such, I only bring a few pegs with me.



Remember, if you do tie your tent to your bike, tie it low on the bike and preferably not sideways to the bike, and preferably also on the side of the tent opposite of the wind - this to prevent the bike from tipping over. I find that the center stand is a good place. Make sure the bike stands sturdy and turn the handlebar fully sideways and put the bike in gear to "lock" the bike. Also, keep the bike at such a length from the tent that if it should tip over, that it will not fall over you while you are in your sleep.



Also, your tie downs for your tent can be used as a clothes line, shoe string, and for various bodge repairs - so no need to bring lots of extra string for these purposes.
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  #62  
Old 4 Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelie View Post
I prefer that a tent has the following qualities:

  1. Two pole, free standing, for ease of set up. I hardly ever tie or peg my tent down. Also, I hate "trip wires"
  2. No vestibule - it usually requires an extra pole and usually also needs to be tied down. Less convenient to set up. I also don't like having to crawl through it and over all the luggage that usually finds its way there.
  3. Poles in many short sections for compact packing
  4. One layered tent for easy set up and compact packing
  5. Doors with mosquito nets
  6. Ventilation flaps with mosquito nets
  7. Taped seams
  8. Robust composite poles
  9. Poles attached using clips rather than pockets for ease of set up and to prevent tears
  10. One tent per bike, except for shorter trips or if you are attached at the hip with whoever you are traveling with (friends should be free to split up)
  11. Built in foot print, robust bottom, for ease of set up
  12. Tent one size bigger than the number of people that will use it to accommodate luggage and for comfort. Exception if you really want to pack very small and can make do without the added comfort and convenience. I prefer not having my luggage in a vestibule where bugs and animals can get to it, where I have to crawl over it, or where dirt or the damp ground makes my life more complicated - I always bring whatever I need inside.
  13. Long enough for your mattress and for you not to have your head or feet pressed up against the fabric
  14. Preferably two doors, one on each side
  15. On on small one person tents, the door should be on the long side
  16. Fat pegs that will hold in soft ground
  17. Inside pocket to store various items like flash light
  18. Small height and foot print makes it easier to find a place to set it up, reduces the chance of hawing it blow away or getting it flattened by the wind, packs smaller and lighter
In short, pack small and light and be easy to set up.

I'll go with that list, because you have described my Coleman X-tent, more or less: it doesn't have two doors but there is a ventilation panel where another door could/would be, and it does have a total of 3 poles (two for the tent - hence its name I think - with one for the flysheet).
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  #63  
Old 4 Sep 2012
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Hi,

I prefere a two layers Iglutent to stay dry in winter like the High Peak Texel 3. My perfect tent is

a) Cheap (27.- Euro insluding shiping http://www.ebay.de/itm/High-Peak-Kup...item337b77be97 ) so i dont have to worry it might get stolen
b) can even stand without hugs (on a ferry etc)
c) has a moscito net



I traveled around africa and around southamerica with this (not using hotels so camping most of the time and it worked great) and left the two front sticks at home:

http://www.adventure-travel-experien...rt=ausruestung

I dont need expensive stuff, Tobi
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  #64  
Old 4 Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelie View Post
Tools, ..., eating utensils, knife, ..., can all be used in place of tent pegs, so there is no need to bring a complete set of pegs.
This I would like to see
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  #65  
Old 5 Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by PeerG View Post
This I would like to see
Yeah, it can be a bit inconvenient having to take the tent down before you can eat your dinner and I've never managed to find a way of holding a tent up with a spork but needs must and all that. The picture below wasn't my best choice of campsite (or best choice of tent come to that) but I was too tired to move on once I'd got there. The surface was soft powdery sand and none of the normal pegs would hold in it so the tent is tied to the bike side stand at one end and to both 15" tyre levers driven deep enough to get some purchase at the other. Good job I didn't get a puncture at the same time

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  #66  
Old 5 Sep 2012
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Haha great Thats exactly why i allways recoment to take a tent wich is able to stand without any pegs. Same if you want to have some privacy on a ferry:

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  #67  
Old 5 Sep 2012
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Ha, ha, yeah I do see your point. Not super practical, and looks out of whack. But, my point is only that I seldom ever need to use all my pegs. In instances where I don't have a complete set of pegs and find that I need to secure the tent better, I make do with whatever I have and won't need until I tear down the camp. Pegs are optimal for the longer taught strings, but just about anything can be used for the bottom floor corners.

As for your tent Ta-rider, I had an almost identical looking tent, except for it was only one layer. I found that the poles that hold up the semi vestibule would often fall down, and it drove me nuts. I finally cut off the whole vestibule... But then my tent was less waterproof, and it became a play tent for my kids, who destroyed it. I cannot recommend that type of vestibule as it is no longer completely free standing, the poles and tie downs for the vestibule get in the way, and they are vulnerable to fall over if not secured really well.

I am currently using a tent similar to the one below. It is ultra quick to pitch, and due to it being only one ply and without vestibules, it packs small and light. It was the cheapest tent I could find, and out of all the ones I own - it quickly became my favorite until one of the poles broke last summer from material fatigue

(I currently own six or seven vastly different tents, for all types of purposes - but this is the only one really I use). Still, it could be improved upon a lot. The ventilation cover on top of the tent will let in water if it rains heavily sideways (never had a problem with it as I in heavy rain have always found a tree to pitch under.

The poles come in too long sections for my liking and are of crap quality. Also, it should have come with more self standing ventilation flaps that some of my other tents come with. The floor of the tent is of a cheap thick heavy material - without this it would have packed even lighter and smaller.

Lastly, the tent poles goes through pockets rather than clips, which I find is more cumbersome to pitch and take down. Also, it wears the fabric.

Now, I am looking for a high quality replacement that fits the specs, but all I can seem to find are cheap festival tents (they are ok for shorter trips, do not last). Any of you know of such a tent?
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  #68  
Old 5 Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelie View Post
I found that the poles that hold up the semi vestibule would often fall down, and it drove me nuts. I finally cut off the whole vestibule...
I just left those front sticks at home. My tent has two zipers so i can close this section then it is waterproof with the second layer or just a moscito net with only the first but i like your small one man tent...have to try one of them if thy really pack so small

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  #69  
Old 5 Sep 2012
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Actually I think that is a two skinny person tent... Mine was of a different manufacturer, but almost exactly identical to the one in the picture. My wife and I used it on our cape town to Nairobi trip. It was small, but adequate for those few nights we camped. On trips when only I sleep in it, its size is perfect.

There are many such "festival tents" on the market, and they are all dirt cheap. Try to find one with poles in many shorter sections and one with a thin light weight floor to pack extra small and light - I myself am still searching. Plz let me know if you find one.
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  #70  
Old 5 Sep 2012
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I've got a couple of those small single skin tents like Wheelie's picture but I'd want sunny weather right through the night before I'd use either of them for more than a family shelter on a beach. They do pack down really small - probably half the diameter of my next most compact tent and about a quarter of the size of my sand dune tent above but that's not really a massive issue with bike travel is it? For back packing maybe but an extra kilo or a few centimeters bigger surely isn't a deal breaker on a bike. If it is leave a few cans of behind to compensate

I've just started prepping a 70's 10bhp 120cc Suzuki for next year's Elephant rally and even that will take the additional weight of a tent with a flysheet. A real bike shouldn't have any problem at all. The weight you saved won't be the first thing on your mind when you wake up in the middle of the night to the sound of continuous heavy rain blown in on storm force winds. Here's a good description I read recently of a wet night in a cheapy tent -

"An ominous dark stain is spreading across the top of the tent ... and water is already running down ... forming puddles on the ground sheet. You carefully arrange the ground sheet so that the growing puddle does not form a rivulet and run towards your sleeping bag and try and get back to sleep but the damage has been done. Ten minutes later, the flashlight is back on. The puddles are bigger and some drips are forming along the ridge. Soon a drip, drip, drip is heard. A cup is placed under the leak. Then another and a plate is used this time. Clothes are gathered up and moved to the driest area of the tent and perched precariously on top of shoes or boots or anything that will keep them away from the flooding ground sheet. Eventually, it is a losing battle and you try and sit on your heels with the majority of the sleeping bag gathered up around the knees. Even if the rain stops and the puddles swept out of the tent, the cold and damp from the evaporating water chills to the bone."


I spent too many nights like that back in my early camping career (in fact I feel like I might have owned the tent he was talking about ) to want to revisit it voluntarily by skimping on tent technology. There was a reason why the single skin tent I bought from from Halfords was only £10 - for + ok, maybe, + no way
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  #71  
Old 5 Sep 2012
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I totally see your point. A tent got to be waterproof, and cheap tents, well they often lack taped seems, can't cope with more than a 1000 mm of rain, etc. But even the crappiest tent, with thorough use of seem sealer and Spraying several layers of waterproofening, will become utterly waterproof. Test it befor you go by putting the water spreader to it for a few hours.

I left one of those cheap tents set up in my garden for my kids to play with, for weeks in a really wet Norwegian summer, it stayed dry. In the army we had single layered canvas tents, and even those were dry with enough waterproofening.

One issue with single layered tents is that it is far more vulnerable to condensation due to less air circulation. This can collect on the inside of the canopy and drip down. Snow or zub zero temperatures on the outside of the canopy, with snow melting off wet gear dragged into the tent, is especially bad. Still, I really have never had any significant condensation issues on any bike trips, even on really rainy nights with wet gear inside the tent - some ofcourse, but nothing to be bothered about. I can't say that I hace camped in monsoon rains though.

Another issue with single layered tents is that they can get really hot in warm summer climates compared to a tent where you can use just the inner tent. But as I hardly ever stay in bed when the sun shines, this is not a problem for me. Near the arctic circle where the wun shines 24 hours it can be an issue if you are so lucky to get a really warm night. On the other hand, the unstable climates up north, going to sleep and wake up to find that sunshine unexpectedly turned to rain, is a bad experience if you went to sleep using the inner tent only.

For my use, single layered tents is the only way. However, I advice against cheap ones on longer trips as there is a great chance they won't last. This is why I am searching for a high tech tent with the specs mentioned.

I guess what is right depends on how often you will camp and for how long each time, as well as under what conditions you will be camping in as well as under what conditions you will be riding, and maybe even your budget. For some, a simple tarp is enough, others need nothing at all and will bite their teeth and ride until they find a cave, bridge, hotel, or what not. Serious offroaders may not wan't to compromise handling a tad bit by adding any grams that isn't absolutely vital. Others bring large tents and chairs for comfort. We all need to compromise in one direction or the other - the question is to find the correct compromise for you as there is no size fits all here. I guess this is why I have accumulated so many different tents - my needs and preferences vary.
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  #72  
Old 6 Sep 2012
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I didn't even get to mentioning condensation in my last contribution but to my mind that's a huge drawback to single skin tents. If the material stops water getting in it also stops it getting out and you can wake up to find yourself covered in your own drips.

How much condensation you get does depend on weather conditions but certainly in the UK what many people perceive as ideal camping weather (still air, warmish slightly humid nights followed by chilly sunny mornings) would see lots of condensation forming. We've got that this week here in the south and it has crossed my mind whether I should try and get away for a few days under "canvas" before it changes. If I do it won't be in one of my single skin tents though.

For me it's all about quality of sleep inside a tent. To get a good nights sleep I want to feel relaxed in much the same way I do at home, confident that tent will cope with everything while I'm asleep. If I don't have that then I tend to wake up frequently just to check that nothing has broken, leaked or come loose. Being dripped on from heavy condensation is one of those trigger points and it does wake me up. It doesn't even have to be on my face or even on me at all - a few drips that soak into the sleeping bag will do it. That's just me though, I know others who would sleep through the tent blowing away and leaving them on the grass. If you're like that then you won't have any problems and an ideal customer for single skin technology but I don't think it's coincidence that most tents on the market have an inner and an outer.

Like you I've left single skin tents up in the garden for extended periods and been pleased to see they've remained dry inside even after days of continuous rain. I've looked at the single skin display tents (two of them!) in my local caravan centre which can be up for months on end and they seem to be dry inside as well so there's no doubt they can be waterproof, it's just that I think the drawbacks outweigh the advantages.
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  #73  
Old 7 Sep 2012
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I can happily recommend the Marmot Limelight 2p.

I have had many tents from the cheapest upwards and this one is great.

Quick, easy pitch.

Pitches inner-only for really hot weather but is pretty airy with the fly anyway.

At a push, it could be free-standing.

Tall enough to sit up in and long enough to sleep without head rubbing against the inside. (I'm 6'2")

To be honest, the vestibule isn't much good for anything other than a pair of muddy boots and a cooker but I like all my other stuff in the tent with me anyway.

The first tent I've ever bought that actually comes with decent pegs. I've added four rock-pegs just to be sure of every eventuality.
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  #74  
Old 7 Sep 2012
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Ha ha, I guess we are never going to agree on this one no matter how long we dance : Because with compromise, there is no right answer.

For me, weight, size, and ease of pitching is the most important qualities - hence the single layered tent.

When it comes to tent selection I find this article pretty comprehensive: Wilderness Equipment - Backpacks, Tents, Adventure, Outdoor, Camping, Hiking, Accessories, Perth, Australia

For the same budget, a single layered tent will not cope as well with rain and condensation as a double layered, true. But, if you have the means to fork over some extra money - you will find a really capable single layered tent, even for really poor conditions.

My personal experience with many different types of tent constructions, in many in many different conditions, condensation has not been significantly worse in a single layered, even in the type of climates you refer to... even cheap ones that I have added water proofing agents to has coped fairly well.

But, what others reading my comments must keep in mind is that I try to avoid camping in poor weather all together, and therefore will not do prolonged camping in rain if it can be avoided. If the weather is poor, a tent is an emergency shelter for me. I think the longest I've spent in rainy weather in a cheap single layered tent is four days in a row, and then it didn't rain continuously. If it is nice weather, then it is a whole different story.

So, if you plan to tent a lot, for prolonged periods of time, in all sorts of conditions - then you should bring "more of it", meaning a larger two layered high tech tent with vestibules, two doors, pockets, etc... the same goes for everything else you plan to use a lot for prolonged periods of time - you bring "more of it" (camping gear, cooking utensils, camera equipment, computer, dancing shoes...).

If camping in the monsoon rains is something you will be doing quite a bit, or in heavy snow or rain storms above the tree line, well then a single layered tent is probably not a good option... but that ain't me.



I am still looking for the "perfect" tent though... I think finding a unicorn will be easier.
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  #75  
Old 7 Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by Wheelie View Post
Ha ha, I guess we are never going to agree on this one no matter how long we dance : Because with compromise, there is no right answer.

I don't think it's that bad! Even if we're not singing from the same hymn-sheet we're (probably) at least in the same church.

It does all come down in the end to personal experience I'd guess. I've had some pretty awful times in tents over the years (as well as some great ones, but lets not go there ). I've been drowned out of them (many times!), had them collapse in high winds, been bitten to death by insects while I slept and even woken up by the noise of a bridge collapsing above me (it was on fire - v. poor pic of it in flames below). I've also lost them, had a couple stolen and once set fire to a tent that I'd got to the end of my tether with. So I tend to buy them with all that background in mind. What I don't do is camp "out on the edge" - high mountains, extreme cold, months at a time, that sort of thing. -20C for three nights , -10C for a week is about the coldest I've done for example, but I know others who do push things (one who camped down to -35C while working in Canada for a couple of months to save on hotel costs!) and I tend to take their advice on board.

Interestingly though when my daughter was preparing for the expedition part of her Duke of Edinburgh's award her tent selection criteria were all about space, ease of putting up, whether it looked "cool" etc, but afterwards she wanted to know if we had anything lighter.

Interesting reference you gave - I read through it and it just about reinforces my prejudices!
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