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  #46  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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>BMW bash club<

I hate to jiggle anyone's religion as a rule, but open minded people don't jiggle quite as easily. Brother had a 75/6 that was a lovely bike, then got a '99 1100S...bro-in-law has an '00 LT...and I finally bought a '02 RT to keep up with their Jones'in. I knew the BMW reputation...even read Mein Kampf first hand (a rarity in this part of the world)...eldest sister married an ex-Hitler Youth from Koln...I had every reason to want to love that machine.

at 14K miles, I got concerned enough to open that $17K machine up to check on the transmission input shaft splines...found a weeping clutch slave...the dealer wouldn't stand behind. (I have a fairly impressive shop and past projects range from the unusual to the bazaar...a 1956 Flxible bus...a 1790 log house...a 1936 Pontiac...lots of bikes and cars...we ain't no kid who's never been around the block here...and I'm not afraid to dig in or get dirty)

at 28K miles I pulled the heads and the carbon from the surge finally put me over the edge and it's out. I know they fixed that with the dual plugs of '05...but BMW denies to this day they put a piece of crap out on the market...and the dealer was a mute with no hands...and I'm left with "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me."

I don't ask for miracles or special treatment...all I ask is that a man's word is good...and if not, from the perspective of my experience, I know why.

There are people in this world who don't like to hear that about BMW...back to the religion thing.

one man's "truth" may be another man's "bash". Interesting part of that (to me) is the defensive posture the animal behavior assumes when "God's" become bowling pins.

The other interesting thing (to me) is the colors splashed liberally about by such a phrase as "BMW bash club" and the negative connotation implied.

it's possible I had one bad apple out of a barrel of good, but the sheer numbers of similar incidents are alarming.

let us pray...

Last edited by modre; 8 Nov 2007 at 11:29.
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  #47  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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It's a bit early in the day to be hitting the bottle ;-)
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Last edited by Tim Cullis; 8 Nov 2007 at 11:56.
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  #48  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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Tim, I think the last part of that polemic is an anagram. It makes no sense as written
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  #49  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modre View Post
>BMW bash club<

I hate to jiggle anyone's religion as a rule, but open minded people don't jiggle quite as easily. Brother had a 75/6 that was a lovely bike, then got a '99 1100S...bro-in-law has an '00 LT...and I finally bought a '02 RT to keep up with their Jones'in. I knew the BMW reputation...even read Mein Kampf first hand (a rarity in this part of the world)...eldest sister married an ex-Hitler Youth from Koln...I had every reason to want to love that machine.

at 14K miles, I got concerned enough to open that $17K machine up to check on the transmission input shaft splines...found a weeping clutch slave...the dealer wouldn't stand behind. (I have a fairly impressive shop and past projects range from the unusual to the bazaar...a 1956 Flxible bus...a 1790 log house...a 1936 Pontiac...lots of bikes and cars...we ain't no kid who's never been around the block here...and I'm not afraid to dig in or get dirty)

at 28K miles I pulled the heads and the carbon from the surge finally put me over the edge and it's out. I know they fixed that with the dual plugs of '05...but BMW denies to this day they put a piece of crap out on the market...and the dealer was a mute with no hands...and I'm left with "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me."

I don't ask for miracles or special treatment...all I ask is that a man's word is good...and if not, from the perspective of my experience, I know why.

There are people in this world who don't like to hear that about BMW...back to the religion thing.

one man's "truth" may be another man's "bash". Interesting part of that (to me) is the defensive posture the animal behavior assumes when "God's" become bowling pins.

The other interesting thing (to me) is the colors splashed liberally about by such a phrase as "BMW bash club" and the negative connotation implied.

it's possible I had one bad apple out of a barrel of good, but the sheer numbers of similar incidents are alarming.

let us pray...
Well, Modre, given your secrecy on your profile I'm not surprised you liked Mein Kampf - and had the dodgy brother in law. Though how you connect BMW to nazism is a wonder..if thats why you buy a bike then youve got some real problems. Mein Kampf may indeed be a rarity in your part of the world, but then again, youve got the "School of the Americas" instead - an establishment worthy of the SS -they would have loved it there.

The HUBBER who used the phrase BMW Bash Club in fact is talking about those who slag things off without thinking - I am certain that if the bashing is done with facts, then theres no problem at all. Yet you see that position as defensive - perhaps that says more about you than the ones you refer to.
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  #50  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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[quote=Caminando;158201]Well, Modre, given your secrecy on your profile I'm not surprised you liked Mein Kampf - and had the dodgy brother in law.

first. let me tell you about the "dodgy" brother-in-law, now deceased.
he was 12-14 during that war and taught whatever way that was...I wasn't there...came to Canada to cook in a boy's summer camp...pretty humble beginings...came to the US and took a correspondence course in electronics and got with RCA...met my sister the secretary...washed his Karmann Ghia every week...I thought that odd at the time...after a bit they moved to Mich City Ind...my folks went up for a visit, and Werner secretly spent his silver quarter collect so he could buy them an ice cream treat...looking back, that was pretty generous...well...they went to Hartford Conn and opened a German butcher shop...fell on their faces...went to California and sold electronic instrumentation for the oil industry...did well enough to begin his own company...Werner made it happen, my sister kept it running...designing and producing fire detection and Halon suppression systems for the oil industry...at their peak the main office was in Tustin Ca., they had another office in Huston, and another in Jakarta Indonesia...they got as huge and successful as anyone I've ever seen in real life. He and I butted heads and were best kept apart...but I have to say I've never met a more socially adept successful world class businessman "a gentleman from A-Z"...the most generous man I've ever met. It was his personality and social graces in the top circles that made that success..."dodgy" is no where in that biography...perhaps you just mispoke due to lack of knowledge.

Mein Kampf I found interesting discussing how a parlamentary form of government caters to the lowest common denominator...someone comes up with a valid honorable cause or idea, and nothing gets done until X gets his bridge, Y gets his museum, and Z gets his kickback...and like a corporate structure that filters the money thru yet stops the legal challenges at the created entity...thus avoiding personal responsibility..."honor" is non-existant at the top...then there's the discussion of how you steer lemmings with catch phrases and sound bites...simple and repeated until it becomes it's own truth in the mind of the lead...when that Colorado teacher made a stink a few years back comparing the current Bush to the Nazis...I got the reference immediately...everyone else furiously waved a flag and reacted like they'd been trained to in uneducated reactionary feined insult.

as far a "secrecy" on my profile...you wouldn't know anymore about me if I filled it out to your satisfaction.

>youve got the "School of the Americas"<

please don't lump me in with "the stupid Americans" as they're known in London Academic circles...my education goes far beyond that propaganda and small 300 year old teenage view of the world.

I find your response predictable.
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  #51  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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Hey, anyone know where the "new F800GS" thread went to????
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  #52  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis View Post
I've been riding CANbus bikes for the last three and a bit years and it's a non-issue. The technology has been used in cars for years and it's a way of simplifying the wiring loom which makes it cheaper to manufacture and less likely to go wrong.

I believe the 'quarry' is the German offroad school. I'm getting more and more interested in the 800cc F650 (or F658 as I've seen it referred to). I was looking for something lower and lighter and had discounted the G650 range due to tank size. The Ténéré looked interesting but everyone speaks of vibrations at higher speeds. The new 700cc TransAlp seems very heavy.



With a lower weight, slightly reduced fuel consumption, and the ability to run on lower grade fuel than the F800, the F658 should hit all the sweet spots. And if the rumoured price of £5500 is accurate it will be the deal of the century.

The current F650 seems to be well regarded by long range HUBBers so with 20 extra BHP and the same weight, the F658 should be a great replacement.
Tim,
Thanks for that; forget the CANbus then - it was the "ring antenna" that I read about somewhere (and I thought it has something to do with the wiring loom). Do you know if this technology is sorted out now, or has it not been an issue?

I agree broadly about the new F650: it is a great deal following on from the existing bike.
As it happens, the F800 can also run on poor quality fuel by selecting the right "code", and this can be done by the rider if I understand the press release correctly:-

Rubber Magazine - EICMA: BMW F 800 GS and F 650 GS

See the section "high-revving with great torque".
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  #53  
Old 8 Nov 2007
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I don't know where I read it, but IIRC the F800 is designed for 97 octane as standard with the capability to also run on 95 octane, whereas the F650 is designed for 95 octane with the ability to run on 91 octane.

The 'fix' to allow the F800 to run on lower spec fuel lowers the maximum output by a couple of HP from which I deduce that whether modded or not it outputs only 83 BHP on 95 octane.

As for the ring technology it is a totally reliable way of preventing the bike from being starting without using the keys. On the negative side, if the ring fails you can't start the bike. I've heard of three cases of this.

Tim
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  #54  
Old 9 Nov 2007
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Fix the others first!

Hello Margus and guys,

You have had that BMW injection haven't you Margus........haha? After being a BMW owner for the last 20 years and still owning 6 of them I am beginning to waiver in my thoughts to where the company is going.

Ok, the 800 is a pretty neat looking bike and will be great for the weekenders who are riding nowadays. But for something a little more robust and that will stand up against harsh punishment I am inclined to begin to lean toward the Japanese now.

BMW have a BIG problem with their warranty issues. Like the 1200GS, if you take it off the road it tends to break, in a big way too! I have a 1200GS parked in Nairobi with no suspension and a square front rim (even though I asked for spokes originally I got alloys) This will take BMW around 3 months for a new set of shocks & rim. That is if they cough up at all? The bike has just done over 10,000 km! I have never heard of this before but apparently it is common! So why not fix all the warranty problems they have with the older bikes before introducing new models. Remember the R80GS & the R100GSPD (great bikes) and continued to go & go & go. So why not the newer models?

Just my thoughts guys, I do hope that the 800 will prove me wrong and that they will manufacture a decent off road bike again.

Cheers
Ivan
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  #55  
Old 9 Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
Hello Margus and guys,

You have had that BMW injection haven't you Margus........
Hehehee, mine's been always fuel injected model, well, now almost a decade old underpowered fart bike compared to the new 800 or 1200 ...but tough as an old boot considering all what it has been through. Thats the main reason why I argue, anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
Remember the R80GS & the R100GSPD (great bikes) and continued to go & go & go. So why not the newer models?
Hmmmm... There could be some truth there - looking at the BMW Motorrad International web now, the 2008 versions of 1200GS and GS Adventure have completely changed drive trains, both gear ratios in gear box is changed and shaft drive's final ratio is reduced.

But the main thing is what BMW says in their desctription of the bike: "More serene – a drive train that won’t let you down."

The translation & interpretation I leave to you.
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  #56  
Old 9 Nov 2007
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Hey, anyone know where the "new F800GS" thread went to????
You tell us!

Very detailed info about F650GS and F800GS, including torque and HP curves etc here.
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  #57  
Old 9 Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
Hello Margus and guys,
I have a 1200GS parked in Nairobi with no suspension and a square front rim (even though I asked for spokes originally I got alloys) This will take BMW around 3 months for a new set of shocks & rim.Cheers
Ivan
You wrote about this in an earlier thread and it’s not very related to the new 800, but still:

The Moyale road (which killed your bike) has taken out a lot of bikes during the years.
Few bikes have suspension good enough to handle that road on a bike with luggage.

The standard suspension on the 1200 is not up to it, this is common knowledge.
The spoke rims for the 1200 is not very good but to go that road with the road-biased rims are not very smart, it’s like going barefoot to Mount Everest.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ims#post142646

It looks like you will mount the same parts again, that’s your choice but there are better options which you can have in maybe two weeks. But after all Nairobi is a nice place to spend some time and it’s easy to avoid import-tax on parts.
You can probably make it to Cape Town with original parts if you avoid places like North West Namibia, the best places in Uganda and all the potholes.


I’m a bit surprised that you came so far, the Wadi Halfa – Dongola route is also pretty hard on the shocks.
I have heard of shocks braking on Honda, KTM and Yamaha on the same route, some people also have cracked frames there. Look at it this way “you were not prepared but made it pretty good”.
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  #58  
Old 9 Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by Tim Cullis View Post
I don't know where I read it, but IIRC the F800 is designed for 97 octane as standard with the capability to also run on 95 octane, whereas the F650 is designed for 95 octane with the ability to run on 91 octane.

The 'fix' to allow the F800 to run on lower spec fuel lowers the maximum output by a couple of HP from which I deduce that whether modded or not it outputs only 83 BHP on 95 octane.

As for the ring technology it is a totally reliable way of preventing the bike from being starting without using the keys. On the negative side, if the ring fails you can't start the bike. I've heard of three cases of this.

Tim
Tim,
Checking the info, it states the 800GS has "Characteristic map modification for 91 RON for F 800 GS (no extra cost)."

The compression for both models is 12 to 1 and the recommended fuel for the 800GS Super unleaded (95 RON) the recommendation for the 650GS is Normal unleaded (91 RON).

From everything I have read the 800GS is switchable between 95 RON and 91 RON fuel. This appears to be a manual switch rather than a internal knock sensor. I wonder what will happen if you run the 95 RON map with 91 RON fuel. I had a simular feature on my KTM it retarded the ingnition advance.

Reading between the lines I think the engineers have played the the power delivery under acceleration.
-----------------------
"But it is not only the acceleration of the new GS models that is impressive; traction is also remarkable. The BMW development engineers have focussed quite deliberately on the smooth, confident development of power in the engine mid-speed range rather than on absolute peak performance. Sporting drivers will be surprised by the engine's acceleration, while touring riders will enjoy the twin's excellent traction with minimal gear shifting."
-----------------------
To me this says it could be a handful but we taken care of that, sounds like a type of launch control, maybe.

Honda has a similar key immobilizing system (HISS) which can also go wrong, you should treat the keys with care and keep them away from other immobilizer keys as the can be corrupted. If you loose the Honda keys you have to replace the ignition control module, no amount of hot wiring will work; I have nightmares about loosing my keys on a trip.

Steve
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  #59  
Old 9 Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by Margus View Post
You tell us!

Very detailed info about F650GS and F800GS, including torque and HP curves etc here.
Thanks for that: $10500 US for the 800GS!! That equates to less than £5250 at today's exchange rates, but it will be priced much higher here.
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Old 9 Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by SteveAttwood View Post
Tim,
Checking the info, it states the 800GS has "Characteristic map modification for 91 RON for F 800 GS (no extra cost)."

The compression for both models is 12 to 1 and the recommended fuel for the 800GS Super unleaded (95 RON) the recommendation for the 650GS is Normal unleaded (91 RON).

From everything I have read the 800GS is switchable between 95 RON and 91 RON fuel. This appears to be a manual switch rather than a internal knock sensor. I wonder what will happen if you run the 95 RON map with 91 RON fuel. I had a simular feature on my KTM it retarded the ingnition advance.


Honda has a similar key immobilizing system (HISS) which can also go wrong, you should treat the keys with care and keep them away from other immobilizer keys as the can be corrupted. If you loose the Honda keys you have to replace the ignition control module, no amount of hot wiring will work; I have nightmares about loosing my keys on a trip.

Steve
Thanks for that info; that's how I have understood the fuelling information that I have read - somewhere it was indicated that the 91 RON facility is for the American market.

HISS: I'm familiar with that and I have not had a problem with the 2-3 Hondas I have owned with this keying system - agree about taking care of the keys (including keeping them away from magnetics - something I have tried to do in the past) because there must be some electronics inside of them!
So, in summary, BMW have a similar facility in their keys.
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