Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech

Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19 Oct 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seville (E) / Geneva (CH)
Posts: 535
XT600 rear brake bleeding: neverending flow of bubbles?????

I was changing (or pretending I could change) the rear brake pads. Changed the brake fluid as well (didn't refill at the same time and air got in). And then started to bleed with a transparent hose and syringe. Well, some bubbles, logical, more, more, more, more and more! Never stopped.

What happened, where was the air getting in from? The bleeder screw? (it leaked fluid later: fluid out, air in?).

Thank again!

Esteban (aka, Dry Hands, too much fluid all over, now getting dry skin!)

PS: My gf is taking her exam, so would love to ride with her for the weekend!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19 Oct 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 106
Estaban and girlfriend,
first of and most important for Anyone doing mecanical work involving oils and such like, Grt yourself some medical examination gloves to protect your hands. This is VERY important not just for you but your partners health also. I'm lucky and get mine from the Sunday market at £4 a box of 100. I guess you should be able to buy them online for a simlar price.

Bleeding and air getting in. You might check that the tube is fixed onto the bleeder nipple nice and tight, and when you open up that bleed nipple/screw only needs a slight turn to open it (maybe a 1/4 turn not much more). In the colder weather dip the tube into warm water to soften it before placeing over the bleed nipple, and hold a thumb over the other end to prevent water entering the tube.
These things are sent to test us

Sometimes it is easier to do this job with two people, one opening and closing the nipple the other doing the rest (instructing)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20 Oct 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Border Ranges Northern NSW, Australia
Posts: 798
May seem a silly question but have you done it before? do you know how to bleed brakes? i had a mate who claimed he knew it cocked it up completely.

Method,

Open nipple, press pedal & hold, then shut nipple, release lever & then repeat the steps over & over until pressure starts to build, stop to top up reservoir every five or so pumps, dont let it get low or you will just suck air through the system.

Mezo.
__________________
http://www.tenere.co.uk/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20 Oct 2011
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 4,519
My guess is that all those bubbles were coming from a bad seal from the bleed hose and the nipple.

If you were getting THAT much air out of the system , your brakes must of been soggy bastards.
__________________
www.TouringTed.com
1994 XR650L
2001 NX650 Dominator.

EX - BMW Dealer Technician
Welder/Fabricator
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20 Oct 2011
Pboko2388's Avatar
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 35
mezo has the right idea but slightly off. you should push pedal, open and close bleeder quickly, than release so you do not suck air back into the line. pump a few times to build pressure and repeat. some brakes are tricky ive spent up to 45 minutes on a front caliper but i tend to be a bit meticulous with my brakes as they are life savers.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20 Oct 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seville (E) / Geneva (CH)
Posts: 535
Thanks to all for your help and the very useful advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo View Post
May seem a silly question but have you done it before? do you know how to bleed brakes?
No silly question: I have never done it and have no idea (I said I was pretending!), except for what I've read on a couple of XT Manuals I got and what I found in the internet. I said “there is always a first time and front brakes still remain there (although working poorly) if I cannot do it properly (to take the XT to a mechanic)”. But I just want to learn to do it by myself.

Some perspective: REAR brake needs new pads, new rotor and new fluid. Front brake needs (only) new pads and fluid. So I thought: I’ll start with rear pads and fluid, to see if it works and then will go with the rotor, before I do anything just too wrong (is it logical or just stupid to start with a worn rotor?)

Bought latex gloves (SOCKS), checked the hose (TED) and followed literally MEZO’s indications till fluid was just crystal clear (refilling, since the 1st I forgot it and messed it all with plenty of air inside).

Finished and tried it. Stopped, it brakes. Running, it really doesn’t. It could be that it needs a time to adapt to the (worn!) rotor, BUT it makes something new and weird: when I push the lever, it doesn't feel like stopping, feeling the pressure on the brake, but like going farther down and it makes a peculiar (and new) “click” sound. Could it be it is actually “compressing” the air inside? Or apart from clumsy I am becoming paranoid?

Esteban

PS: My girlfriend has a 6 hours course on Saturday and rented the bike for the weekend (Spanish lesson: “cuesta un huevo y parte del otro”, “it cost a testicle and part of the other one”) and would love to ride with her, and will have to solve it by Saturday at lunch! Can be done... I hope!
PS2: I cannot bleed the brakes, but at least there is one thing I can do reasonably ok: I can cook PAELLA for 40 people, no one around Geneva??? I exchange services: brake bleeding for paella birthday party cooking!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 20 Oct 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seville (E) / Geneva (CH)
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pboko2388 View Post
mezo has the right idea but slightly off. you should push pedal, open and close bleeder quickly, than release so you do not suck air back into the line. pump a few times to build pressure and repeat. some brakes are tricky ive spent up to 45 minutes on a front caliper but i tend to be a bit meticulous with my brakes as they are life savers.
I'll check all available systems then!

Mezo's sequence:
1) Loosen bleeder
2) Push pedal and hold it
3) Tighten bleeder
4) Release pedal and again 1) and so on.
And checking fluid reservoir level, refilling when necessary. This one looks really appropriate when I did it.

Your sequence, to try is as well:
1) Push pedal (and hold it, I assume)
2) Loosen bleeder
3) Very quickly tighten it
4) Release pedal... and again 1) and so on.

Is that right? Reservoir cap always out, since we'll be refilling, I assume.

Question: no syringes at all? Because stupide me I forgot to control fluid level and let lots of air to get in the 1st time!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20 Oct 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by estebangc View Post
I'll check all available systems then!

Mezo's sequence:
1) Loosen bleeder. at the same time do 2
2) Push pedal and hold it. when and as peddle reaches end of play (bottoms out) do 3
3) Tighten bleeder to prevent return of oil and air
4) Release pedal and again 1) and so on.
And checking fluid reservoir level, refilling when necessary. This one looks really appropriate when I did it. Spot on!

Your sequence, to try is as well:
1) Push pedal (and hold it, I assume)
2) Loosen bleeder
3) Very quickly tighten it
4) Release pedal... and again 1) and so on.

Gosh! Esteban I hope the two above don't mind me butting in and adding to the instructions above coz they are both correct!

Is that right? Reservoir cap always out, since we'll be refilling, I assume. yes

Question: no syringes at all? Because stupide me I forgot to control fluid level and let lots of air to get in the 1st time!
Gosh, dont know how but went into "qoute" and changed original posting (not my original intention) yet I hope it helps.

Best to understand the princibles of bleeding first.

You nearly there, dont go to the mechanic thing when you need this knowledge yourself.

Some one correct me if I'm not right in saying this for the brake disk, but it is often recommended to replace the mounting bolts when replacing the disc, is it not?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21 Oct 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seville (E) / Geneva (CH)
Posts: 535
If I am able to: a) push the pedal and loosen the bleeder at the same time and, b) then tighten the bleeder when the pedal reaches its end, c) repeat this for 45 min (as Pboko did once), then d) I'm sure I could work in the Chinese circus or become a Shaolin Master!

Understood, I'll try tomorrow and Saturday morning.

Those rotor screws are damn expensive!!!! Confirmation, pls?

THX again, Socks (getting to Switzerland next spring? Don't forget you won a "worth a Paella" coupon!)

PS: I guess I rushed a little and did not do my homework well before getting to the bike (touching all over I read: beware of asbestos in old brake pads! Nice. Clymer Manual talks about rear drum, printed (scanned) Workshop manual has crappy photos and the 3rd manual is in German! So got totally lost in the garage!)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21 Oct 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by estebangc View Post
If I am able to: a) push the pedal and loosen the bleeder at the same time and, b) then tighten the bleeder when the pedal reaches its end, c) repeat this for 45 min (as Pboko did once), then d) I'm sure I could work in the Chinese circus or become a Shaolin Master!

Understood, I'll try tomorrow and Saturday morning.

Those rotor screws are damn expensive!!!! Confirmation, pls?

THX again, Socks (getting to Switzerland next spring? Don't forget you won a "worth a Paella" coupon!)

PS: I guess I rushed a little and did not do my homework well before getting to the bike (touching all over I read: beware of asbestos in old brake pads! Nice. Clymer Manual talks about rear drum, printed (scanned) Workshop manual has crappy photos and the 3rd manual is in German! So got totally lost in the garage!)
It is possible do do this on your own, simply a lot easier when done with a second person, it goes something like = you (or she) say "in" (pull brake lever in) as one of you says "in" the other opens the bleed nipple, when and as soon as the oil (with bubbles) is let out , close bleed nipple, as you (or she) says "closed" (cerca) once closed you or she lets lever return to relaxed position and so it goes untill no air bubbles and all the old oil is replenished.
Wow! No spongy brakes, and the click may well be the valve in the resevoir opening and closing.

So Estaban, I looked it out and its not nessasary on the xt to replace those rotor screws,(unless damaged)thats another story) sorry about the fright on that! but do loctite (just one small drop goes a long way) them back in. If indeed this needs replacing? IE; badly scored and therefore minimum contact to brake pads or warped disc. If this is so, why? Wear limit for my xt 600 3aj, acording to W/shop is 3.5mm. check this out for your model.

Good luck for you both over the week end.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 21 Oct 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by estebangc View Post
Your sequence, to try is as well:
1) Push pedal (and hold it, I assume)
2) Loosen bleeder
3) Very quickly tighten it
4) Release pedal... and again 1) and so on.

Is that right? Reservoir cap always out, since we'll be refilling, I assume.

Question: no syringes at all? Because stupide me I forgot to control fluid level and let lots of air to get in the 1st time!
Yeb, thats how I do it aswell. Between step 3 and 4, I usually pump the pedal a few times, before i go to no. 1. Not sure if it makes a real difference, but thats my thing
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22 Oct 2011
Pboko2388's Avatar
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 35
yes jens it does help, it builds pressue in the system. i didnt realize that i didnt mention it as i ment to
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22 Oct 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Border Ranges Northern NSW, Australia
Posts: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eskildsen View Post
Yeb, thats how I do it aswell. Between step 3 and 4, I usually pump the pedal a few times, before i go to no. 1. Not sure if it makes a real difference, but thats my thing
Nope your dead right there Jens i forgot to mention that, it does help to build up the pressure.

Mezo.
__________________
http://www.tenere.co.uk/
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24 Oct 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seville (E) / Geneva (CH)
Posts: 535
Thanks to all. I will try the perfectionned procedure with more pumping!

My girlfriend could not handle the 215kgs (more than 4 times her weight!) turning around cones and dropped the CBF a couple of times on Friday night already, so postponed the course and I (we) cheated the XT and went for a short trip with me riding gf as a pillion.

Conclusion: sorry, but I still love much more the XT thumping and will get back to her today again! No rush, so probably rotor change inmediately.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24 Oct 2011
oothef's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: york
Posts: 265
If the rotor is worn it makes sense to renew it at the same time as the pads then they bed in together rather than bedding the pads to the old disc making them less efficient when you put a new rotor on. Make sure the pads and disc are clean, not contaminated with fluid or oil.
Sometimes it helps to keep the system pressurised overnight, wedge the peddle down or tie the lever back,
Try altering the routing of the flexible pipe whilst you're bleeding the system, if it loops up tie it so it loops down or vice versa.
Be very careful opening the bleed screw whilst the system is under pressure, you could get brake fluid spraying in your face/eyes.
Good luck (a friend has renovated his RD 500 but can't get a good back brake, even having the calliper off and in different positions)
__________________
Anything can happen in the next half hour
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problems with bleeding front brake bikereurope Yamaha Tech 24 26 Jun 2011 22:27
Rear brake question - drum or disc brake for south america Synt Tech 3 21 Sep 2010 18:49
Bleeding rear Brembo, '82 RS John Roberts BMW Tech 3 21 May 2010 20:45
Rear brake bleeding problem, ? bradley j Yamaha Tech 21 26 May 2009 00:39
1987-1989 XT600 with rear disc brake py330 Yamaha Tech 4 14 Jun 2007 07:33

 
 
 

NEW! HU 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar is now available! Get your copy now for some terrific travel inspiration!

HUGE, 11.5 x 16.5 inches, beautifully printed in Germany on top quality stock! Photos are the winning images from over 600 entries in the 9th Annual HU Photo Contest!

Horizons Unlimited 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar.

"The calendar is magnificent!"

"I just wanted to say how much I'm loving the new, larger calendar!"

We share the profit with the winning photographers. YOU could be in the HU Calendar too - enter here!

Next HU Eventscalendar

  • South Africa: Nov 13-16
  • Thailand: Jan 9-11, 2015
  • NEW! USA Virginia: Apr 9-12
  • NEW! HUMM Morocco: May 13-16
  • Germany: May 14-17
  • Canada Ontario: Jun 18-21
  • Ireland: June 26-28
  • Colorado: July 17-19 TBC
  • Canada West: Aug 20-23
  • USA California: Sep 24-27
  • Aus Queensland: Sep 24-27
  • USA North Carolina: Oct 8-11
  • Aus Perth: Oct 9-11
  • Germany: Oct 22-25

See all events

 

Latvia to Australia, an inspirational 5 month journey full of unexpected adventures!


Circle to Circle by Brian and Shirley Rix.

Circle to Circle - a journey through the Americas and beyond. by Shirley Hardy-Rix and Brian Rix

"Well written, funny and informative."
"Thoroughly entertaining!"
Available NOW from the authors' website!

Scottoiler automatic chain oilers. The most important accessory for your next motorcycle adventure!

Renedian Adventures

Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:25.