This was year and month when we were riding through Alps and southern France with my mate on 2 roadster bikes in full leathers for 10 days. We made it, but we were pouring water each chance we get all way over leathers and helmets and drinking water all the time and only slept high in mountains each time. One day we decided to spend night on the seaside and this was worst night I had. I was amazed how cold leathers get when soaked in water and riding anything above 30 kmph.

Some people seem to be able to take it thou...my wife just came back from trip to Israel "on feet" where she faced +47 to +55 daytime and +42 at night and she loves it. But she hates cold.

You both are right the man is indeed passing a bad moment!

Found the tv news with the interview of the rider that survived, the emotions on his voice are very touching, brings a tear to the corner of your eye. if anyone understands a litle of Portuguese you can hear it here http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php...=8&layout=122&
visual=61

I'll be back to Morocco next year and definitely better prepared.

Tito

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http://clubman1.blogspot.pt

Very sad.

Last June/July in Morocco we experienced 3 weeks where the minimum temperature (overnight/early morning) was 32degC!

I spoke to a very experienced desert biker a year or two back who despite all his experience still ended up with heatstroke. The route was through dunes, and riding along the tops the breeze kept him and his friend cool and his camelbak sipping was part of his riding. A rider in front came down in a hollow so they went to help. Suddenly he was distracted into forgetting his sipping regime, and the dune hollow had no breeze, he was out of it very quickly. His friend was OK and more help came quickly, so thankfully all were fine, but it surprised him how easy it was.

More than one and well beyond the corner of the eye. Hard to hear when he bursts into tears explaining how he tried to resuscitate his friend and failed, unable to get a single sign of life from him and the soldiers tell him his brother dead as well. God, that has to be tough. I try to figure out that with my friends and part of me would be dying that day, I hope he will be stronger than that.

They had to push a couple of times the bikes out of the sand and after 30 min like that the fatigue was extreme. When one of the brothers started to talk incoherently, the 3rd guy removed all the luggage from his bike and rushed to look for help (if the images of video are form his helmet camera, he was riding a 1200 GS). It looks he was unaware of the seriousness of the situation, as if he could not expect that at all. I read elsewhere that it was their 4th day in Morocco and the 1st on sand/dune.

I agree mate that the size of the bikes was not the biggest issue. But my personal experience there indicates it is still a major issue.

I was there in first week of sept last year (like june a fringe summer month) in 41 degrees the day I rode the dunes at erg chebbi and 43 the next day for the piste from Merzouga to Tagounite.

If was fu@king hot ... but because I was on a bike 100 kgs lighter, I only had to dig the bike out in erg chebbi a couple of times, and never at all on the Merzouga-Tagounite piste. The few times I did had to dig it out were much easier than it would have been on a 250+kg Varadero.

So contrasting my experience with this, the time of year made no difference. The difference was how many times I had to dig the bike out, and how easy it was to dig the bike out. - i.e. the physical effort resulting from the weight factor.

Obviously the time of year was the main factor, but weight and the ability of the bike to handle the terrain seem to have led to the exhaustion, that would not have been there in exactly the same conditions on a lighter more suitable bike.

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The reason I decided to cancel our intended southern route from Foum Zguid through M'hamid to Taouz wasn't because I was worried about the size of our bikes, but rather that there isn't a scrap of shade the whole way and I could envisage a situation where we would be stuck with a puncture. The lip on the Tenere rim makes it particularly hard for tyre removal.

Although I was carrying a tent and also a footprint that would act as a tarp, the thought of changing an inner tube in 40+C heat was enough to persuade me to head for the mountains.

It's reckoned that by the time you feel thirsty you are already 10%* dehydrated, yet just 5% affects your judgement. The following exchange of texts between me and my wife from last July indicate how it can creep up on you (and this is in northern Morocco).

Tim: Don't want to worry you but I'm not very well mentally at the moment which is probably why I've 'retreated' to Azrou. Confused thoughts, can't remember what I've been doing, much thinking going off at tangents.

Irene: Can you go to the people you know there who will be sympathetic? I don't think you should be on your own if you are feeling vulnerable. Could you stay at the Childrens Haven? Let me know when you get this.

Tim (next day): I've realised it's dehydration. I've listened to my notes on my voice recorder and my speech is frighteningly devoid of expression and very slow. Since then I've drunk one litre of coke, 1.5 litres of water, five banana milkshakes and will keep pumping in liquids and salt/sugar the remainder of today.

The point in the exchange above is that despite my past experience of dehydration, once it hits you lose the ability to detect that you are in trouble. And this is probably what happened to these guys. The only good thing is that it was a quick, and not unpleasant death--light headedness and loss of consciousness.

*10% is probably wrong, but certainly by the time you are thirsty you are already dehydrated.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

This is a sad story but thank you for posting as I have learnt already reading this thread.

My girlfriend and I are riding through Europe at the moment and riding through Macedonia and Albania. The highest temperature that we have had at the moment is 37 degrees. Mostly around 33-35 though and so we have been pouring water on ourselves and are sure to drink a lot of water and we never ride longer than 2 hours. Being from QLD in Australia where the average summer temps are very high we are pretty used to the heat although 2 winters in a row (one Australian and then the European) has adjusted us back to the cooler weather. After about a week we seem to be handling it again pretty well.

One point below that I think is really important is the cooling of the body overnight which allows you to handle the heat again the next day. We have been staying in hostels and budget accommodation and not all of them have air con. Sometimes when they do have aircon, they come in and turn it off at night to save on the bill and then you wake up in a pool of your own sweat. We had to argue with them to turn it on. One point in that BBC thread is that travelers not used to the heat because they come from colder climates need to be more aware... sometimes local hostel owners here don't understand why someone from Britain can't sleep easily in a dorm room with 28 degrees. So atm our priority when booking a hostel or room is air con and we confirm they have a liberal policy with regards to use.

One thing not mentioned so far... Sunscreen. It reflects a lot of light, stops your skin getting burnt but also helps to stop you absorbing heat into your skin. Will help against heatstroke in a huge way. Face, neck, arms, any exposed skin.

We have both made a decision to get up earlier now and head off in the morning when it is cooler and not ride in the middle of the day like we have been.

I agree with colebatch, big bikes are unsuitable for heavy conditions. Only chosen ones are able to manage that bikes in sand and usually they do it with lighter bikes.

The first time I rode in Spain, I found I started developing headaches during the mid afternoon. It took me a couple of days to realise this was caused by dehydration.

Normally I seem to be able to take any amount of heat but I do naturally move quietly when hot. Over the last ten years or so I have become more susceptible to heat but in turn seem to be able to accept more cold than I used to. I used to find I would really come alive and feel great in 28-35 c but now much over 30c I really have to shed workloads dramatically. So now to avoid dehydration I make a point of stopping frequently from noon onwards, for not just a drink, but also to cool and rest. The head ache thing is for me the first warning that I have exceeded my design limits.

Regarding dehydration (much less severe than heat stroke which befell the two brothers), if planning on riding in Morocco at this time of year it's worthwhile mentioning that there are two types of powders that deal with it.

• the relatively expensive Dioralyte/Rehydrat/[+Supermarket versions] which I'd classify as 'medicinal' for when you're losing it as Tim describes above. About 50p a shot (200ml). Also good if you have the runs and are losing water that way.

• the less expensive 'preventative' tablets like High5 Zero or Nuun tablets, or 'isotonic' tubs of powder like Gatorade sold for sports activities. Tabs about 60p/litre.

Dioralyte/Rehydrat especially are much more effctive than just sugar and salt, though that mixed at 8 teaspoons to 1 per litre works very well if you're feeling crook. Dioralyte etc include a specific ratio of other key minerals to rebalance your body's electrolyte levels, the medium through which signals are transmitted back to the brain and why your senses (eyes, balance, touch, etc) all start to go when the electrolyte balance is off as you lose minerals in your 'salty' sweat. I've watched a person staggering around and seeing double come round in minutes after taking a Rehydrat.

Too much salt at once can make you vomit, but another good way of getting salt in is a refreshing sachet of miso soup.

I always carry a few Tesco-branded 'Dioralytes' on my travels but rarely use them these days unless I get the runs. I think that's partly because I now regularly use Zero tablets when doing energetic stuff in warm places.

And if i'm in a hot place (as we were in AZ/Utah a month ago when temps hit seasonal records), I'd buy it in powder form by the tub. We got through a kilo in ten days but had no headaches or other dehydration symptoms walking 5 hours at up to 40C.
On ebay High5 Isotonic Energy Drink 2kg (not quite the same as sugar-free Zero) goes for 23 quid and they say makes 24 litres @ up to 40°C, maybe twice that if it's less hot.
When I do my camel walks (Alg winter, <30C) I take one tube of H5s per four days, plus plenty of Rehydrats to dish out as needed.

Riding one time in southern Algeria in September (a big mistake...) I was having to stop and drink every 30 mins (10 litres a day and another couple at night trying to keep up). So that tub would have lasted me two days. I appeciated then how, without water or shade but not exerting yourself in any way (like the puncture example given above) you'd be too far gone to help yourself within just a few hours.

Just drinking water was not enough. After a few days I came over all groggy, realised what was happening, did the 8:1 thing and recovered.

btw, plain salt tablets are not the same, and are now discredited AFAIK. The one time I tried them after a long day on the sands in Mori with the runs, I threw up (normal reaction when ingesting too much salt at once). 8:1 is better.

So if you're riding in Mk in summertime I'd strongly recommend drinking something like Zeros regularly (along with taking all the other usual precautions to reduce water loss which others have described).



PS:
That did not look right to me so seeing as we're all having a go at Tim's stats, I'd suggest this may not be accurate.
A quick Google to a health site came up with:
4-5% = mild dehydration.
'Severe dehydration (>/= 7%)'
So 10% down and you're collapsing or worse.
I'd guess thirst kicks in at 2-3% - the first symptom of gradual dehydration that I experience. Which is another good thing with those tablets: the fruity flavours make you want to drink them more than plain water.

There's been even more unseasonably hot weather in Morocco. Yesterday Marrakech airport recorded a high of 46ºC and low of 29ºC . The 'low' illustrates JetJackson's point about the body not having a chance to recover.

The high of 46ºC is only a few degrees off the all-time high for Morocco of 49.1ºC recorded at Agadir's Al Massia airport. Higher temperatures might well have happened elsewhere but official records can only be recognised when taken with properly calibrated instruments.

____________________________________

You're undoubtedly right, Chris, on the percentage issue. It was something Si Pavey was trying to drill into my head on a particularly hot day and I obviously haven't remembered it correctly. Maybe I was dehydrated

Though I'm pretty sure the 5% bit was right...

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Bump.

Because:-
1. It's that time of year, again (comes around every year, strangely).

2. Some folks never learn, so reminders are valuable. Others never knew.

3. It is pretty hot across most of Europe, not even considering other bits of the northern hemisphere - it's your turn next, in the south, by the way.

4. The news in the UK has this subject as a topic at present.



This thread should be a sticky???? (maybe in the health/safety on the road forum).

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Dave

with 23 years in the Army medical services, heatstroke, heat exhaustion and dehydration are things I know a bit about and have seen many many times. I have worked in temperatures upto 65degrees for short periods and 45 degrees for sustained periods.

I have seen a soldier collapse from dehydration and heat exhaustion in the snow. He was wearing too much clothing whilst undertaking strenuous activity and wasn't drinking enough because of the cold - he didn't feel thirsty.

You can become dangerously overheated in a lot less than 40 minutes.

Drink little and often. small sips regularly. You should not feel thirsty. If you do you are already dangerously overheated and will struggle to make up the deficit. You are drinking to stay alive, not because you are thirsty.

be careful how you cool down. wet rags on areas where the areties come close to the surface help. namely in the groins, around the neck and under the armpits. Also wet the head. DO NOT throw cold water over some one or soak their clothes with water. You will cause the skin to chill, this causes the peripheral circulation to shut down and the body core to super heat.

Paracetamol and ibuprofen can help the body reduce it's temperatures.

If someone collapses from heat exhaustion/heat stroke they must seek medical advice. they will need blood tests to monitor their vital organ functions. The test should be repeated after 3-4 days. Death is from multiple organ failure. This can have a delayed onset after the person appears to have recovered.

damage to your pituitary gland means if you have had heat strok once you are more likely to have it again.

watch your pee!! The old adage was pee clear twice a day. However, early on in Iraq the army ran into problems with guys knackering their renal(kidney) function trying to achieve this. You will not pee clear in hot conditions. You should aim to pee straw coloured AT LEAST twice a day, preferably more.

If you have diarrhoea and vomiting for other reasons (i.e. food poisoning) seek cool conditions and do not exert yourself, you are at significantly higher risk as you are already dehydrated. even if you are vomiting, continue to take small sips of water. some will be absorbed even if you vom it back up.

watch each other, and monitor each others water intake and toileting habits! If you think someone hasn't had a pee today, ask them!

we had bottled water with electrolytes added, diorolyte is ok, but tastes horrible I think. Energy drinks are pretty much as good, but of course more bulky to carry than a few sachets of Dioroylite added to water bought as you go.

Don't drink caffeine containing drinks or alcohol. They will dehydrate you more. Also, because they increase urine output, they give a false idea as to your true state of hydration. They make you pee clearer than you would otherwise because of the additional diuresis so you may think you are ok when you aren't.

Working hard in those conditions could easily require a water intake of 10 litres a day, maybe more. It sounds like these guys weren't carrying enough with them.

Sorry, long post, but hopefully useful

Extremely useful, rest assured.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a detailed post. I'm sure we all learnt something we didn't know about this crucial issue. Really appreciated.

Esteban

Thanks Moggy good stuff
only part I didn't understand or would disagree on would be
What I heard is that ice water or water below 15 degrees shouldn't be used as it can impede peripheral blood circulation. 15-18 is optimal, the more the better.

Not being a biker I am less exposed in my 4x4 (but no AC or fridge).
Being in Algeria and Mali in May was a new experience to me.
I've spent years in the tropics but here we had 40-50 daytime and not below 28 at night. There was no respite, and limited water supply.
When your drinking water is too warm to drink and the nearest shower is days away it gets interesting.
Usually I get by just with soaking my beret - helps a lot!
Now I had to soak my shirt too and let it evaporate. Thankfully it was windy every day.
Strangely, I felt really great all the time.