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  #46  
Old 9 Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollrik View Post
Hey!

OK, I have bought the 115 main jets today, but of course, the snorkel have to be ordered from Kawasaki, so I'll get it in 1-2 weeks!

That darn snorkel costs around 20$ (actually, I more or less were expecting something similar), but now I'll get it!

I'll give you more details when I'll get the snorkel!



Ohh, about the ER-5 exhaust. I removed the sump plate (if you mean that metal "plate", under the exhaust) for it to fit, but other than that, it worked fine! (had to make a custom "exhaust holder", but it fits well onto the cylinders, so you just need something to hold it there!).

I'll take a picture of the headers later (today or tomorrow), but for the record, they are equal length, but I understand that a picture might still be of interest!



To tell you the truth, not sure what this "clean air system" is, so if you could shed a light to this, I would be thankful

/Mollrik
Hi

I notice the main jet options on the old carb set-up (N96J needle) is #108, #110, #112, #115 and #118.
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  #47  
Old 9 Jun 2009
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Hey!

Yes, those are "optional" main jets, that should work too, but using a 108 or 118 main jet for an old KLE 500, and not modify it, will probably make it go lean(108) or rich (118). Can't say this for sure, but I know that one size in main jet can do a noticeable difference!

If, for some reason, the 115 main jet will be too big for the new snorkel (as in it still is going rich), I'll just add some more holes in the back, but it will probably run just fine

/Mollrik
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  #48  
Old 10 Jun 2009
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Hi
What revs does the bike pull too until the power tails off?
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  #49  
Old 10 Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunJ View Post
Hi
What revs does the bike pull too until the power tails off?
Hey, ShaunJ!

If you look at the page before this one, you will notice on the graphs that after 8000 RPMs, the power will dramatically decrease, if you are using the stock exhaust and/or aftermarket exhaust with the unequal headers.

Using an other exhaust with equal headers will let it rev a bit more, until the power falls dramatically (8500 is the peak for the graph with changed exhaust, and as you can see, the power doesn't decrease drastically, but after 10.500 RPM, it will skydive down (well, you should never let the KLE rev past 10.000 RPMs anyway, unless you like to do an engine rebuild, which I doubt you want ).

But if you are using stock exhaust, there's no need to rev it past 8000rpm!

/Mollrik
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  #50  
Old 10 Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollrik View Post
Hey ShaunJ!

If you look at the page before this one, you will notice on the graphs that after 8000 RPMs, the power will dramatically decrease, if you are using the stock exhaust and/or aftermarket exhaust with the unequal headers.

Using an other exhaust with equal headers will let it rev a bit more, until the power falls dramatically (8500 is the peak for the graph with changed exhaust, and as you can see, the power doesn't decrease drastically, but after 10.500 RPM, it will skydive down (well, you should never let the KLE rev past 10.000 RPMs anyway, unless you like to do an engine rebuild, which I doubt you want ).

But if you are using stock exhaust, there's no need to rev it past 8000rpm!

/Mollrik
Maybe i should clarify a bit i was more interested in how the bike feels when its being ridden after all theres no wind resistance on a dyno so just wondering what revs the resistance overcomes the engine power.
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  #51  
Old 10 Jun 2009
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OK!

This is my personal experience with the exhaust I have now (ER-5 exhaust, equal headers). Under 4000 RPMs, the bike doesn't pull that hard, between 4k-5k RPMs, you can feel that something is happening in the engine. It goes very smooth between 4k-5k, which is where I usually cruise in. between 5k-6k, it actually gives a burst of power, and after 6k, it's going wild (of course, not like an EX/GPZ 500, but it still has a lot to give after 6k)! and will rev freely for up to 9.5k-10k (well, I have not revved it past 10k, and have no intention to).

With my original exhaust, I think it vibrated alot (comparing to the exhaust I am using now) before 4k, but the symptoms were more or less the same over 4k, except after 8k - 9k, you could actually feel the power loss, but I would wait for someone else to shime in on this part about the original exhaust (SPYE, perhaps ), as my memory might be a bit "dim".

All of these "symptoms" are my personal experience, and if someone feels free to correct me, go ahead, but I think this should be quite accurate!

I hope this answered your question (if not fully, it might have given you some "pointers")

/Mollrik
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  #52  
Old 10 Jun 2009
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Thanks Mollrik
thats exactly what i wanted

so for my setup (stage 3 K&N+DJ, arrow system) it should rev freely to approx 9-9.5k when my restrictor comes out instead of 7.5k

So top speed should be about 120-127mph with 17/42 gearing and 100mph achieved at approx peak torque 7.5k
Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Gearing Ratio Sprocket RPM Speed Chain Calculator
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  #53  
Old 10 Jun 2009
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Hey!

Yeah, the arrow exhaust is probably the best exhaust you can get for a KLE 500, and will help a lot with the power delivery. Not sure about the K&N filter and DJ setup, but I am sure it will do wonders to the bike; keep me/us updated about the results when you are done (I expect you are not done with this setup yet)!

I'm not sure if this KLE 500 in the video has DJ installed, but he has an arrow system!

YouTube - Kawasaki KLE 500

(No, I do not encourage any kind of illegal driving, just want to show a KLE 500 with arrow exhaust )



/Mollrik
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  #54  
Old 10 Jun 2009
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Well the restrictor won't come out till jan 2010 (yes i am counting the months)
As for the jetting the 130 DJ jet is equivalent to a 140 keihin jet so the stage 3 filters must increase flow a fair bit for a 130 jet to be needed and at the last spark plug change the plugs showed no signs of richness.
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  #55  
Old 12 Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollrik View Post
OK!

This is my personal experience with the exhaust I have now (ER-5 exhaust, equal headers). Under 4000 RPMs, the bike doesn't pull that hard, between 4k-5k RPMs, you can feel that something is happening in the engine. It goes very smooth between 4k-5k, which is where I usually cruise in. between 5k-6k, it actually gives a burst of power, and after 6k, it's going wild (of course, not like an EX/GPZ 500, but it still has a lot to give after 6k)! and will rev freely for up to 9.5k-10k (well, I have not revved it past 10k, and have no intention to).

With my original exhaust, I think it vibrated alot (comparing to the exhaust I am using now) before 4k, but the symptoms were more or less the same over 4k, except after 8k - 9k, you could actually feel the power loss, but I would wait for someone else to shime in on this part about the original exhaust (SPYE, perhaps ), as my memory might be a bit "dim".

All of these "symptoms" are my personal experience, and if someone feels free to correct me, go ahead, but I think this should be quite accurate!

I hope this answered your question (if not fully, it might have given you some "pointers")

/Mollrik
Hi

I did a high speed run on the highway last Sunday. The bike reaches max. 165 Km/h WOT. Not a km more. It was on a long flat with no wind. The bike pulls very nicely between 4500 - 6000 rpm. Not that I am complaining, the bikes power delivery is much better now with the new set-up, but it goes completely flat at 8000 rpm as should be expected. Perhaps I must try it with the DNA filter installed. BTW, I have removed the "clean air system". No differance in power.
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  #56  
Old 12 Jun 2009
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Hey!

I got the new/big snorkel installed, with the 115 main jet. The bike runs just fine, topped around 175-180km/h (according to the speedometer) with the bike right now (no wind, and leaning over the tank). The bad side with the new snorkel - barely any intake sound :P

But it runs very well, no problem with the performance, except I have a slight feeling the 115 main jet is a bit on the rich side(so you should _probably_ not have to make it richer), but barely!

If anyone here's interested about the snorkel areas, I measured them yesterday, and the difference is huge!

The small snorkel has an area of ~6cm, and the big snorkel ~ 15.64cm (I use the "~" sign, as the measurements may not be 100% correct, but I think it shows the the differences )

I'll probably "chop the plugs" in some weeks, to see how well they burn, but I'm sure they should be fine, as the bike runs super!

edit: Yes, my bike probably has a higher top speed, due to the exhaust, and NOT the filter (the original exhaust, as stated by the tuning pages I linked, is just a huge engineering failure, due to the different header lengths), as if I am not mistaken, it were revving around 9000-9500RPM at that speed (quite sure over 8000 rpm, though )


/Mollrik

Last edited by Mollrik; 12 Jun 2009 at 22:40.
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  #57  
Old 12 Jun 2009
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For those who are interested to see the difference between the small snorkel and the big snorkel, here's an image you can observe (I know SPYE has added two as well, but decided it could be interesting to see both of them "side-by-side" )

The area of each snorkel...

Small Snorkel: 6cm²
Big Snorkel: 15.64cm²

PS: The following measurements may not be 100% correct; I used a caliper (non-digital) to measure these snorkels, but if any, they should be close

/Mollrik
Attached Thumbnails
KLE 500 Dyno-tuning/carb settings info needed.-snorkel2_small.jpg  

KLE 500 Dyno-tuning/carb settings info needed.-snorkel4_small.jpg  


Last edited by Mollrik; 14 Jun 2009 at 19:43.
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  #58  
Old 15 Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollrik View Post
Hey!

I got the new/big snorkel installed, with the 115 main jet. The bike runs just fine, topped around 175-180km/h (according to the speedometer) with the bike right now (no wind, and leaning over the tank). The bad side with the new snorkel - barely any intake sound :P

But it runs very well, no problem with the performance, except I have a slight feeling the 115 main jet is a bit on the rich side(so you should _probably_ not have to make it richer), but barely!

If anyone here's interested about the snorkel areas, I measured them yesterday, and the difference is huge!

The small snorkel has an area of ~6cm, and the big snorkel ~ 15.64cm (I use the "~" sign, as the measurements may not be 100% correct, but I think it shows the the differences )

I'll probably "chop the plugs" in some weeks, to see how well they burn, but I'm sure they should be fine, as the bike runs super!

edit: Yes, my bike probably has a higher top speed, due to the exhaust, and NOT the filter (the original exhaust, as stated by the tuning pages I linked, is just a huge engineering failure, due to the different header lengths), as if I am not mistaken, it were revving around 9000-9500RPM at that speed (quite sure over 8000 rpm, though )


/Mollrik
Hi

I cleaned the DNA filter and installed it. There is a small improvement in the rev. response otherwise almost tha same. A WOT high speed run with the DNA filter installed gave the same results. Max 165 km/h. As you say it must be something to do with the unequel headers. Complete engineering blunder! Will change it to Arrow headers later when funds allow.

BTW how does the bike pull with the #115 main jets compared to the #112's?
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  #59  
Old 15 Jun 2009
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My "stock" bike with 17/44 gearing would pull 175 km/h (in fact it felt like it had a tad more in it) The gearing makes about a 10 km/h difference to a 16 tooth front - so I'm not sure you have gained anything?? Sounds like you are definately a bit rich or lean on the main.

I believe if you have the bike jetted properly and exhaust/headers done you should get to 190 km/h no problems at all, and get there much quicker. I will test this once I rejet my bike...maybe a couple of weeks, but I suspect it is right.

Again for those who have not done the exhaust, your engine will run way smoother at lower rpm's. I think that 90 degree header into the other one is actually pushing some exhaust back towards the other cylinder making the engine run much rougher. My bike can pull 3rd from almost idle now and all with about 70% less vibes than before - and when jetted right it should have a little more in it.

I would keep the smaller intake duct to keep jet size down and maximise fuel efficiency given how well my bike was doing stock.

If you really want more top end - port the head - these engines really take to improved flow by all accounts from the ex500 racers out there. You would then be looking at way more power everywhere (4 stroke power is all about the head flow).

cya
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  #60  
Old 15 Jun 2009
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Originally Posted by jimmy101 View Post

If you really want more top end - port the head - these engines really take to improved flow by all accounts from the ex500 racers out there. You would then be looking at way more power everywhere (4 stroke power is all about the head flow).

cya
Hmm, somehow I doubt that. A question about porting and polishing the cylinder head were asked at EX-500.com some days ago. The question was...

Quote:
I was just wondering if porting and polishing the 500R head would be a good idea? i have done it on a few of my vehicles and have gotten outstanding power gains...... would it be worth my time to do"
and the answer he recieved from FOG (he has raced these machines for years, tried more or less everything to improve HP, and his response was...)

Quote:
This is another No No, The shape of the intake runners has been created to obtain the best flow already and polishing it will make it worse. The rough cast surface is better than a smooth polished one. Read up on Laminar flow. Essentially the smoother surface causes greater drag in the airstream.

FOG
FOG more or less knows this engine "in by out", so I'll take his word for it, and I doubt SPYE (me included) wants go get every last piece of HP from the engine as possible; reliability is also of importance!

According to FOG; if you want to get those extra HP, do the following...

Quote:
If you really want to help get all there is . you need to get internal. DO a valve job, this way:

Get a set of after market intake valves, The heads are thicker.

Re cut the valve seats till the seat angle(45) reaches the very tip of the valve. This gives the maximum valve opening area,

Make the (60) angle to reduce the actual seat line to .030 wide.

Lightly radius the top edge at .01R max.

Lightly lap the valves in place

Remove each valve and cut the bottom away till you just reach the lap line.


Reset clearances to .005 in .006 EX

Slot the cam chain wheels mounting holes .12 in each direction.

Degree cams after installation to 100 intake lobe centers 105 exhausts.

Note the valve info applies to intakes only the exhaust don't matter.

With good compression this will produce 54 HP at 9800 RPM
Coupled with good carb tuning (fog Box Mod and proper adjustment of pilot screws) the best power under the curve.

FOG
(the last quote may not work with the KLE 500, as the KLE 500 has 254 degrees camshafts, instead of 290 degrees (GPZ/EX 500))

source: Port and polish cylinder head

The reason why SPYE's KLE will max 165km/h, and not more, is most likely due to the exhaust system AND the lower compression (9.8:1). By changing exhaust, you will probably increase the speed, and it will vibrate less.

My KLE runs just fine; but I somehow got the feeling that the 115 main jet is a bit too large, as it runs fine when cold, but as it gets warmer, I can feel "low speed stumbling" going WOT @ ~3000rpm (there's no power down there, but it shouldn't stumble (doesn't stumble when cold, which is a sign of it going rich)). It runs better now than with the 112 main jets, but I didn't use the big snorkel with the 112 main jets anyway, so perhaps it were asking for "more air"(pressure balance) with the 112 main jets.


edit: opened up the airbox with 2x8 mm holes (not much at all), and the low speed stumbling is now gone, and it still goes perfect at the highway. Can't say much about the top speed just yet, but got to 180km/h, before I had to roll off the throttle (still had a little bit more to give), so I am quite sure the jetting is more or less perfect now, but will have to do some more testing, when it's not windy (yes, windy today too) and raining



/Mollrik

Last edited by Mollrik; 16 Jun 2009 at 01:22.
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