Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear?

Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear? Anything to do with the bikes equipment, saddlebags, etc. Questions on repairs and maintenance of the bike itself belong in the Brand Specific Tech Forums.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Giant Loop Motorcycle Saddlebags & Motorcycle Tank Bags: Panniers, Soft Luggage for Adventure & Sport Touring

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 31 Aug 2012
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 402
Phew, didn't think this would get such a debate going! All very interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
I thought the great thing with joining copper pipes is that the joints have solder built into a ring inside - as shown here. From the top picture of the TTR, it looks like those sort of joints were used.
Yep. If that were a British website they'd be called Yorkshire fittings, which are used on my rack. Maybe, like many things 'old', that name's disappearing. Just need flux as well to make the joint.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
If you cover or fill the inside of any solder item it will make any repair that much more difficult.


Yes, that was in the back of my mind when considering whether to keep this rack. If it did split or crack, and the tubes were empty, repair would be simple. But filled with resin? It may be impossible. Other than wrapping material round the outside - hence my try-out with the fittings sawn in half and clipped around the joints as in the photos above.
But while the doubt was in the back of my mind, I kicked it right out and just got on with it......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
and you probable cannot get thoes without solider any maore anyway).

Yep, you can still get those in builders merchants in the UK. The two mentioned above, split and clipped round 2 joints, are that type.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Yellow Tractor View Post
Here's one to throw into the mix........strength for weight, you'd be hard pushed to better wood. Some nice spruce would make a very strong rack :-)

Yes, I've seen on the web just such a thing. Maybe it was on the HUBB? But it's out there somewhere, with instructions for construction.

Must go now, have an HU Mendip meeting to go to... and there's a big yellow round something in the sky!
__________________
TTR250 - London to Cape Town
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 31 Aug 2012
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,126
Yes - good to revive this interesting thread and get some ideas out.

Quote:
So, would it be possible to use self-soldering copper joints with mild steel tubing?
Not heard of that being done, and even filled with resin I think the relatively soft copper joints would be exceeding weak alongside the stiffer steel. You'd want a well cubed structure, rather like this OTS rack

The strap-on rack - it was at least 15 years ago, I think he bought my Funduro. All I know is it was a sheet of PVC some 10-12mm thick.
See this youtube bending vid.
Now I think about it, it's not the 'soft' plastic of chopping boards or rotomolded kayaks, but probably 'hard' lexan-like acrylic (I don't actually know what these words mean, but I know what they refer to) like the stuff we use to make windscreens. That is more brittle when thin and also actually quite heavy, but I reckon at 10-12mm thick would be quite hard to break. Looking again at that rack, he did a very nice job. I might round off the front edge a bit.

I must say that (today) I'm all fired up by these hex-key joints on ebay. Certainly stronger than copper. However...*

I've screenshot a number of them which I could visualise in assembling a rack - the usual elbows and Ts. The tricky bit is attaching pipe ends to the bike without doing the 'crush and seal' mentioned earlier, but some clamp types could be drilled and adapted to take a chunky bolt to the subframe.
And where the hex key force couldn't be expected to resist tension - such as downward loads on a platform base - you can just drill through it to use a regular nut and bolt, as well as glue.

I will probably go with 3/4 steel ECT mentioned earlier as it's dead cheap and comes galv/painted, but any tube, even hardwood doweling using wood screws instead of hex, works with those joints, I imagine. If I had clocked them earlier I would have done it by now.

* Added: ... I just received the clamps and they are for 1 1/8" OD tube with a 3/4" bore. I mistook those for the clamp dims not the pipe to fit them. What does the pipe bore matter? Thinking about it it does as the hex screw needs a thick-walled steel pipe to resist crushing while securing tightly. And of course their recommended 3/8th thick steel pipe of 1 1/8 OD will weigh a ton! I thought about trying to recover my mistake by considering wooden poles (28mm) or thick, 29mm OD ally tube, but the fact remains these cast clamps are hefty - 2-300g each? - way OTT for bike racks. Another flaw is that the overlap from hex point to max insertion is only 10mm - fine for a handrail or static structure, not so good for a moto rack. Drilled through bolts would be needed. So forget that idea...

Last edited by Chris Scott; 7 Sep 2012 at 13:00. Reason: added
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 31 Aug 2012
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,227
The hex-key/scaffolding joints are cast and therefore brittle. They might be so massive that this won't matter, but hit one hard enough and it will shatter, usually where tapped for the grub screw. The field repair would be epoxy.

Copper would bend if you dropped the bike but could of course be bent back to shape. Epoxy filling would stop it crushing. Field repair could be solder or epoxy or a new fitting.

Wood is a great idea but takes skill. I designed a sidecar body in wood, basically copying aircraft techniques deHavilland used up into the 1950's. Light, strong and simple to repair with more wood or fibreglass. The trouble is that to do it properly you need to make forming jigs to hold it and the right temperatures to get the glue to cure as you form the laminates. You could also get in trouble in warm climates with the glue failing as the layers expand. The results could be first class, but bolted channel only requires hand tools and welded tube at least leaves me with something I might use elsewhere or can e-bay. The sidecar body ended up as bolted, rivetted and bonded aluminium sheet and angle (more Vickers than DH) and worked well, but a box not a rack.

Plastics wise you want something more like a Nylon or PVC. Lexan type stuff shatters and cracks when placed under enough load or the wrong temperatures. Again, it's jigs to form it accurately, the one in the picture I would guess was heated and draped over a former. The bottom angle could do with a bigger radius maybe? If drape forming, a spoon shape like the old plastic canteen chairs is stronger that the shape in the picture which is more like what you would do with laminated wood.

If you want to mess about with tooling, you could also look at glass or even carbon fibre. Your rack could be bullet proof!

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 31 Aug 2012
Big Yellow Tractor's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 608
Being a chippy by trade, I will one day have a go at a wooden rack just for a laff. I had even thought about knocking together a whole bike out of sticks.

For racks, I'll stick to good quality steel tube (it's only twice the price of poor quality stuff) and either Mig or Tig welding.

Seriously though, if anyone wants a rack making, give me a shout. I'll do mate's rates on the first one for a given bike. I will need the bike for a day or so.

Here's some pickies of the one I knocked up for my "S"

It'd be a little stronger made as a one piece but I wanted to be able to loose the pannier racks and just use the carrier. I did a little trip with this set up, 2500 miles including some trail riding in the Pyrenees whilst fully laden. The only thing missing to make it perfect are some strap loops on the top rack.
The one I'm making for my "E" will be a little different because the bike doesn't have a full subframe or rear pegs
Attached Thumbnails
Making your own luggage rack - Any tips?-img_6515-medium-.jpg  

Making your own luggage rack - Any tips?-img_6516-medium-.jpg  

Making your own luggage rack - Any tips?-ready-unload-give-wash-medium  

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 1 Sep 2012
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post

The strap-on rack - it was at least 15 years ago, I think he bought my Funduro. All I know is it was a sheet of PVC some 10-12mm thick.
See this youtube bending vid.
Now I think about it, it's not the 'soft' plastic of chopping boards or rotomolded kayaks, but probably 'hard' lexan-like acrylic (I don't actually know what these words mean, but I know what they refer to) like the stuff we use to make windscreens. That is more brittle when thin and also actually quite heavy, but I reckon at 10-12mm thick would be quite hard to break.
That heater in the video is ok, but they show it being used on acrylic plastics. They are brittle.

I'd think it was grey in colour? In that case it is PVC. This stuff is not as brittle as the acrylic...

[yes, plastic rack was grey so = softer PVC. CS]

For the home workshop, you can bend PVC like sheet metal ... it will go off - white in colour - when bent too far... Before it gets to that angle .. heat it! That relives the stress and you can continue bending in successive stages to what ever angle you want. The thicker the sheet the less angle you can bend before requiring heating - say 10 to 15 degrees would be of for a 10mm sheet.
Heating? Use a hot air blower ..or a hair dryer...



Many different ways to make things

The two I prefer are

a) easily bent – if it is hit it bends ..and I can easily bend it back. Will work harden and fracture if bent too often.

b) Strong enough to support the bikes weight + me + luggage. Impossible to bend back unless you hammer it (and probably need heat as well).

I've built things both ways – each has it advantages. One I don't like is part way between the two - bends frequently and hard for me to bend back, try to aviod this

Last edited by Chris Scott; 1 Sep 2012 at 09:09. Reason: CS added comment
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 3 Sep 2012
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 402
Wooden rack...

And here it is.... at the Mendip HU meet, the day before yesterday.

How simple can you get? And it carries a rucksack/pannier as well!

There you go.





__________________
TTR250 - London to Cape Town
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 3 Sep 2012
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,126
Wooden stick

Another great one for the collection.
Have to say though, I think twin shocks help with such minimalism.

I did something similar a couple of weeks ago to keep the bags out of the wheel, but didn't waste effort on jubilee clips ;-)
Attached Thumbnails
Making your own luggage rack - Any tips?-foy.jpg  

Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 4 Sep 2012
Alexlebrit's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West London
Posts: 915
Junk the hoops

Thinking about racks for soft bags I reckon we can junk the tubular hoops which unless you can weld are a right PITA to make. Given that soft bags often have rigid backs why not make the rack with a plate instead? I'm thinking either 2mm aluminium or nylon like the Kriega Overland set-up.

You could probably use something like these clamps to attach tubular "legs" both to the plate and also to the bike.





Found HERE and HERE. The easiest way to attach a bag would be to have something like an upside down pocket which simply drops over the plate with a strap at the bottom to hold things tight.

I've thoughts on bags but maybe that's for a different thread?
__________________
Happiness has 125 cc
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 5 Sep 2012
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,126
Quote:
... something like an upside down pocket...
That's what I was thinking when I was considering making bags, only more a pair of upright poles on the bike onto which a pair of sleeves on the back of the bag would slip over. If the sleeves were something other than fabric and had open ends there could be a lockable element too.

There was some DIY bag chat here.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 5 Sep 2012
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dreaming of travelling and riding bikes in general..
Posts: 449
Did someone say 'Tough Rack'?

Dan’s DR-Z400SM | Brighton 2 Siberia

Notice how it uses the existing Suzuki rack. Light too.
__________________
Find out details of my 2011 trip to Siberia on a lightweight dirtbike:
www.brighton2expeditions.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 5 Sep 2012
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 402
Bamboo - the new 15mm copper.

I just came across this adventurer's blog, Lusaka to London on a bamboo bicycle. He arrived for the opening of the Paralympics.

The bike is from Zambikes.

There's a picture of the front rack here.




The joints, as on the bike itself, are made from hemp soaked in epoxy resin, wound tightly round the components as appropriate, lacquered and polished.
FAQ’s | Zamboo Bikes - Bamboo Road Bikes

The bikes are now obtainable in London.
Mmmmmm
__________________
TTR250 - London to Cape Town
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 5 Sep 2012
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,514
If you are riding solo, I have always thought it a good idea to just rest the frame assembly on the rear seat. The cushioning will act as suspension and reduce shock loads from your bags.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 6 Sep 2012
Alexlebrit's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West London
Posts: 915
When I first started this thread I was a hard pannier fan, but like a lot of people I've changed my position and am now thinking soft-luggage is the way forward. If nothing else it'll be easier to store note I've moved from a French house with garage to a London flat with tiny shed.

But I'm not yet convinced by any of the soft luggage available, it's either too small, the wrong shape, or most importantly the wrong price.

So I'm contemplating a semi-rigid system, the plan is to ditch a full rack in preference for something which simply keeps the luggage off my high exhaust. That way it won't need to be as sturdy, nor as complicated to fabricate given I only have a shed. I know Chris and I have discussed the merits of a rack (on his site) in providing addition triangulation, so the plan is to run a single tube from the pillion pegs up over the exhaust to the rear rack attachment points.

Now attaching the luggage. Again Chris on his site has brought up one of the problems of throwover luggage, the fact that it's hard to consistently put the luggage in the right place especially when tired or rushed. So rather than straps going from one bag to the other I'm thinking of a harness which straps firmly over and under the seat, staying in place and onto which attach the bags, probably with large side-release clips.



This hopefully solves the problem of consistent attachment points.

And now the semi-rigid luggage itself. The plan here is to separate the functions, support, crash-resistance, water-proofing. What I have in mind is a U-shaped piece of flexible plastic (an old water drum) which hangs from the harness. Each side will have eyelets punched through, and through these a web of paracord so that the the luggage can be compressed to suit the contents. Something like this:



The idea then is to put waterproof stuff sacks inside, as many or as few as required, tighten the paracord, then fold the to over and secure with buckles. It means for instance that you can have a stuff sack full off all your heavy items at the bottom, with another on top for lighter stuff. Also I can quickly shed my waterproofs and just stuff them into the paracord web.

Hopefully this long waffling ramble makes some sense, and if anyone's got thoughts, comments, or wants to shout "No!" feel free.
__________________
Happiness has 125 cc
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 6 Sep 2012
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,227
Now I was going to say that great minds think alike, but you'd probably (and rightly so) feel insulted .

This however is as far as I've got along similar lines albiet with an existing rack in place:

https://sites.google.com/site/poorat...i/platey-thing

The "Green Range" is of course the old National service type army pack with a lot of the straps cut off and replaces with plastic clips. The "Platey thing" though allows said clips to be secured in multiple directions under the bag so the strap takes the weight of the load rather than just having the structure of the bag (particularly the stitching) in shear.

I get my soft bags on in 2 minutes (there is some strap tensioning) and off in 30 seconds, so on that score at least as good as plastic boxes.

I love your string bag idea though and now propose to plagerise it mercilessly (sorry ).

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 7 Sep 2012
Big Yellow Tractor's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexlebrit View Post
Now attaching the luggage. Again Chris on his site has brought up one of the problems of throwover luggage, the fact that it's hard to consistently put the luggage in the right place especially when tired or rushed.
And also with the bike on a side-stand makes it a big faff as well.

I used Ortlieb Cycle panniers bought second hand. They just clip on.

I knew that the clips wouldn't stand up to rattling around trail-riding so used a couple of cam-straps to cinch everything up tight.

The whole setup worked really well. While camped for the night, I left the straps looped slack on the rack. In the morning, load panniers, clip on, tighten straps, ride off.
They are perhaps a little small for some but that was deliberate; stopped me carrying too much crap.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 8 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Luggage Rack BuzzBum Yamaha Tech 3 3 Oct 2008 23:58
H&B Luggage Rack IanW KTM Tech 1 8 Nov 2003 17:43
Luggage Rack XR 600 XR Max 600 Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear? 2 20 Feb 2003 22:49
luggage rack Kurt Ellul Honda Tech 1 22 Jan 2003 03:15
luggage rack Kurt Ellul Equipping the Bike - what's the best gear? 1 21 Jan 2003 23:44

 
 
 

NEW! HU 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar is now available! Get your copy now for some terrific travel inspiration!

HUGE, 11.5 x 16.5 inches, beautifully printed in Germany on top quality stock! Photos are the winning images from over 600 entries in the 9th Annual HU Photo Contest!

Horizons Unlimited 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar.

"The calendar is magnificent!"

"I just wanted to say how much I'm loving the new, larger calendar!"

We share the profit with the winning photographers. YOU could be in the HU Calendar too - enter here!


HU DVD Autumn Special!

Take 40% off Road Heroes Part 1 until October 31 only!

Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries two-up on a Harley); Dr. Greg Frazier (5 times RTW); Tiffany Coates (RTW solo female); and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).

The first in an exciting new series, Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers."Inspiring and hilarious!"

"I loved watching this DVD!"

"Lots of amazing stories and even more amazing photographs, it's great fun and very inspirational."

"Wonderful entertainment!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'HEROES' on your order when you checkout.



Scottoiler automatic chain oilers. The most important accessory for your next motorcycle adventure!


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:39.