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  #16  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
Yeah yeah - don't get me started Walt' x

Oh, ok then - steel subframe (that is actually the main frame), decent pillion provision, comfy seat, luggage capacity, 23 litre tank, fairing & screen, twin headlights, twin front discs, cush-drive rear hub, and an engine that is every bit as frugal as the G650...

Basically everything that you've fitted to yours, as standard... and it's 30Kg more, not 50Kg... and have you weighed yours will all those extra bits on?

I'm just saying there are other bikes out there that will do the same job...

Jen xx

ps. changing that front sprocket then... how long? x

pps. I love Walt, I love his bike, and I love what he's done with it and on it - he knows this is gentle ribbing x
Ahem ... X-Challenge comes with a cush drive rear hub ...

Now look here young lady ... as for fuel consumption, I rode a month with an 07 XT660R (I assume same engine) and it drank 17 litres when I drank 14, drank 21 litres when I drank 17. That's more than 20% worse consumption for same speed, same roads. Admittedly on good roads (fast gravel or asphalt) the consumption and range penalty on the XT was only 5-10%, but it was 20-25% on tougher roads! By Yamaha's own admission, they have used a very "simple" FI system on that engine. They built it "cheap".

To be fair (and you know I am a very fair man Jen) I will give you the fact that it is cheap, solid and probably pretty reliable. But I wouldn't trade my X for two of them! I think as long as you have that bike, you should consider renaming yourself to JMo and the Elephant.

Is there an anti knock sensor in the XT engine? Will it run on 76 / 80 octane fuel? (sorry i should clarify ... thats actually a serious question )

PS... love what you did with your front end.
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  #17  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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Ahem ... X-Challenge comes with a cush drive rear hub ...
Hee hee - yes, I actually thought that after I wrote it... but I'm sure you get my point - the Tenere has a lot of the equipment you've fitted to yours (and that you'd want to fit to any large capacity trail bike) as standard, and at a significantly lower price?

I'm not sure how the fuel consumption compares back to back, but while I was in the US I would regularly get 200-210 miles to 16 litres (with 7 litres still to go on reserve) over mixed riding.

Quote:
I think as long as you have that bike, you should consider renaming yourself to JMo and the Elephant.
Ho ho - I like it! - although I prefer 'The Sofa' - if you've seen last month's TBM, you'll know why...


(the blue and yellow paint scheme looks like IKEA!)

Quote:
Is there an anti knock sensor in the XT engine? Will it run on 76 / 80 octane fuel? (sorry i should clarify ... thats actually a serious question )
Not sure if there is knock sensor as such, but it ran fine on the crappy 81-85 octane stuff you get in rural USA... seriously, the fueling is spot on with the new Tenere - I've taken it from -282ft to 14,110ft, -20°C to 44°C, and it never skipped, coughed or missed a beat...

Quote:
PS... love what you did with your front end.
Yeah... you love what it did to all of it, you just won't admit it xx

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  #18  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
Yeah... you love what it did to all of it, you just won't admit it xx
No Jen, you know thats not true!. But I DO love the fork conversion ... and OK I also love the KTM low front fender. Amazing that no-one else in the world seems to make a decent low front fender and everything in rallys from BMWs to Yamahas to KTM 530s seem to run with the 990 front fender. Its one of my projects this year ... to fit one to the X.

(I am even more amazed that people with this good low front fender as stock (KTM 950/990 adventure folks) get rid of them thinking a high fender looks more macho / off-roady.)

PS did I mention the X-Challenge come stock with a proper size rear wheel?
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  #19  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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I know what you mean about the KTM front fender - but I guess it's because very few 'off-road' bikes have a low fender these days, especially with USD forks - in fact I think KTM are the only one?!

You can buy some very tasty carbon fibre low fenders from the rally-bike kit manufacturers, but they are silly money - €300-400 typically, which is why Meca'system conversions tend to use the plastic KTM one (around £110) - mind you, they do stitch you up for the price of their mounting brackets (if you have single front disc pair of forks) - that itself is about $85 as I recall!

I'm sure you could fabricate something very similar to mount the KTM fender to the BMW forks?

Hope to catch up with you at Horizons, or in the Pyrenees later this year? I might even let you have a go on my bike! (so you can eat your words x)

Toot toot!

Jen x

ps. Plenty of tyre options for 17" rims these days too you know - hee hee x
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  #20  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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81-85 MON isn't too bad. It's in the 90's RON if I'm correct.

JMo, I thought you said the dual front disks are a downside in other threads, with them being really overkill and slow the suspension down off road.

Don't really understand the dual front disk, as most other bikes in the same class do fine with one.

Colebatch, the Xc doesn't have a knock sensor, does it? My Dakar doesn't, and I thought it was the same motor with some minor refinements, like weight and a few more HP.

What Europe's thing with low fenders. Have you guys not had it fill up with mud to the point of it not letting the front wheel turn?
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  #21  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by tmotten View Post
81-85 MON isn't too bad. It's in the 90's RON if I'm correct.

JMo, I thought you said the dual front disks are a downside in other threads, with them being really overkill and slow the suspension down off road.

Don't really understand the dual front disk, as most other bikes in the same class do fine with one.

Colebatch, the Xc doesn't have a knock sensor, does it? My Dakar doesn't, and I thought it was the same motor with some minor refinements, like weight and a few more HP.

What Europe's thing with low fenders. Have you guys not had it fill up with mud to the point of it not letting the front wheel turn?
Hi tmotten - you could be correct with the US vs.UK octane ratings, it's certainly got a lot more ethanol in the US brew, but maybe not quite as crappy as the juice Colebatch's been running on in Siberia etc!

As for the twin discs on the Tenere, I wouldn't say they are a downside as such - other than the weight (and that was in relation to the Rally bike of course) - but yes, they do make the front wheel heavier, and thus the suspension has to work harder etc. I think the reason Yamaha specced them on the Ten' was primarily as they envisaged the bike carrying more weight (ie. a pillion and a lot of luggage) over the XT660R for example? And that the twin discs would give more power and a progressive feel? - they certainly are very 'good' brakes in that respect, on or off road.

As for the low fender thing - certainly here in the UK we have more than out fair share of mud, so I know where you're coming from! - however, it tends not to be the same sort of sand/soil that turns to clay when it rains that you find in Australia and the desert in the US for example.

I think it is there primarily as part of the 'rally bike' styling - but a low fender does help keep dirt out of the radiator, and also allows more air though the forks the reach the radiator, and at the same time doesn't flap about so much in the wind at high speed - helping stability?

Should you wish to fit a high fender, the Tenere lower triple clamp has the regular Yamaha 4 bolt pattern holes there already...

xxx

ps. I am sorry, I know this thread was originally about the G650 of course!
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  #22  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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Low Fender

(1) Much better radiator cooling ... My X-Challenge suffered this year from the high fender ... the back end of the fender covers a third of the radiator ... meaning the fan came on a lot. I dont know what the power rating of the fan is, but I am guessing it is significant. 100 watts or so. When the fan was on a lot, (and I was running heated clothing and twin headlights) the bike's battery sometimes went flat. When the fan didn't need to come on, powering the heated clothes and headlights was no problem. A low fender will significantly improve engine cooling because it will give me the lost third of my radiator back. That in turn helps ensure my battery doesn't run out of juice on a cold wet mosquito ridden Siberian back road. And that for me is an improvement.

(2) Improved aerodynamic stability

(3) Lower rock thru radiator risk.

(4) If you clog this front fender up with mud then there in no way the bike would be rideable even with a high fender ... you would be adding almost 2 inches of mud to the outside of the wheel.!!! If you have two inches of clay glued to your front wheel you are going to need to stop and scrape some off anyway. You don't have to have a low fender a few mm above the tread ... you can move it out a bit for more clearance.



Now this is what I call radiator cooling !!

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  #23  
Old 12 Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by tmotten View Post
Colebatch, the Xc doesn't have a knock sensor, does it? My Dakar doesn't, and I thought it was the same motor with some minor refinements, like weight and a few more HP.
Dunno, how do you check? Pavey told me it had one, and I ran it on straight 76 octane (from totally empty) several times, without pinging.

The engine was pulled apart in Kazakhstan after 45,000 km, and many tanks of 76 and 80 octane fuel, and the pistons and valves were completely normal.

If it doesnt have a knock sensor, and it does have 11.5:1 compression, then i dont understand how it does it.

The guy I was riding with had an 05 Dakar, and filled up with the same fuel ... also several tanks of 76 octane, and he too reported no problems. In fact he did about 30,000 km all up, NEVER using anything more than 92 octane (95 is recommended minimum)
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  #24  
Old 13 Jan 2010
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Not sure how to check. The GS Maintenance manual or somewhere on the Chain Gang shows an image highlighting all the sensors going to the ECU, and I know for certain from discussions on the chain gang that the GS hasn't got one. So I guess it's the same for the Xc, but I'm not sure. Dunno about the relativity about that and the compression though. Out of my league of knowledge.

I haven't had any issues with fuel either. Not even with the dreaded Bolivia fuel that I heard so much about. You never really know what's in it though. But it ran fine. Love FI though. No looking after required.

I recently saw a video RR on a DVD set in central Australia where they rode through a sections that had seen some rain. Amazing how quickly the mud collected. The only bike that had problems with it was the 990 with a low fender. All the others had high fender, and although they weren't going anywhere fat (walking pace), at least they were going scraping mud off as they went. The low fender one didn't go anywhere. It actually threw him over the bar I think.
We had something similar with out old 3AJ Tenere in Mongolia. From there on in, I'm only using high ones.

I might be a bit naive here, but doesn't the high fender cover only the central frame? My radiator sits behind that anyway. It's got holes cut into it anyway.
I've heard stories of fans coming on from gaiters before, but I've never had that issues with mine. Now that I've put USD forks on it I noticed that fan being on on the first test ride (around town). But it was stinking hot that day, and pretty slow going. Will see this weekend on a longer ride how it goes.
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  #25  
Old 13 Jan 2010
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I might be a bit naive here, but doesn't the high fender cover only the central frame? My radiator sits behind that anyway. It's got holes cut into it anyway.
I depends on which model bike you're talking about - an enduro machine tends to have a pair of radiators, one either side of the central down tube - however, some bikes (like my Tenere, Colebatch's G650, and matey on the 690 Rally above) have a single radiator in front of the down tube, and this is where the problem would occur...

I agree that a low fender can get clogged:


But that was in pretty extreme circumstances! (in Utah in this picture), as Colebatch suggests, the reality is if it's that clogged, it is probably catching on the fork legs too, so you need to stop and scrape some of the crap off (which is what I was doing here)...

I guess the rule of thumb is if you envisage riding in a lot of wet, clay type soil that will bulk up like this, it's worth fitting a high fender... otherwise, if your bike has a full width radiator, a low fender for 99% of a trip is actually a sensible choice?

J x

ps. I know the XR has twin rads - but there is still an improvement with airflow in general, over a (high) flappy front fender (and this bike has no fan btw.) Another plus point for a low fender is that you can actually see where your front tyre is when standing/off-road riding?
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Old 14 Jan 2010
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Right ...

I think we have had more than enough NON X-Challenges on this X-Challenge thread ... so I feel obliged to link a couple in from around the internet ... some mine, some not mine:

These are from MetalJockey's ride through Namibia:







And a few of mine:









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  #27  
Old 14 Jan 2010
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In the hands of a Russian Motocrosser

Ooohh this is gonna hurt !



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  #28  
Old 14 Jan 2010
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Consensus?

OMG! great pics mr. Batch!

I just picked this thread up and it seems only one X Challenge is represented. What's the general consensus on this bike?

In California X Challenges are selling pretty cheap ... no longer produced.
How many have had Colebatch's success going on long trips on an X Challenge? What's the general consensus? Is there a X Chal specific site to learn more?

Also ... is swapping out the air bladder a must-do? Has anyone done long rides, fully loaded with the Bladder? What happened? In a nutshell, any problems with the bike on your rides?

Colebatch, I love the set up on your bike. How much all up weight is all your gear? (including the space station dash area). What do you carry that would surprise us? Have you ever crashed on the bike? I would worry about being pushed through the dash board, might be bad for legs, knees? Any worries there? I've done this on Motocross bikes a couple times! OUCH!

Mc D
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  #29  
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In California X Challenges are selling pretty cheap ... no longer produced.
How many have had Colebatch's success going on long trips on an X Challenge?
Its not that they are no longer produced ... but rather "production has been suspended" due to the economic crisis. There was some talk production would restart this year, but I don't know if there is any truth to that or just rumour.

Not many people have done long trips on the bike, because its new and there is a bit of an irrational phobia about travel on new bikes. New engines I might worry about, but not a new model with a tried and tested engine. Half the guys out there still wont tour with a fuel injected bike despite FI being around since WWII.

There were a few other interesting trips on X-Challenges this year. The first 3 pics above come from one of them. Here is a link to that ride report if you want to read it.

The Wife, the Ex and the kid do Namibia - ADVrider


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Originally Posted by Mickey D View Post
Is there a X Chal specific site to learn more?

Also ... is swapping out the air bladder a must-do? Has anyone done long rides, fully loaded with the Bladder? What happened? In a nutshell, any problems with the bike on your rides?
There is a ton of info (too much) so you have to filter through it:

X-Challenge - Accessories/Farkles - ADVrider

New BMW G650X (merged) threadfest... - ADVrider

I believe the ride report above through Namibia kept the air bladder. But I would recommend swapping it for a coil over shock.

No real problems with the bike. Only mechanical failure was the starter clutch has died after 50,000 km.


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Colebatch, I love the set up on your bike. How much all up weight is all your gear? (including the space station dash area). What do you carry that would surprise us?
Weight of the bike? Stock bike is 144 kgs, we saved 2kgs with the exhaust, we added 3 kgs with a rack, 2 kgs with a bashplate, 2 kgs with the extra fuel tank, about 4kgs for the front fairing / cockpit. Thats 153 kgs ... with a few other minor bits n pieces lets call it 155 kgs with empty fuel tanks.

I carried a huge 5kg tent ..., that will surprise you ! I wont be doing that again. And a Eee laptop - with proper mouse.

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Have you ever crashed on the bike? I would worry about being pushed through the dash board, might be bad for legs, knees? Any worries there? I've done this on Motocross bikes a couple times! OUCH!
Two crashes at any kind of decent speed. No real problem for the bike apart from the fact that the way the Touratech handlebar risers are set up, the bolt that goes up through the risers and only to handlebar clamps bends, and you have crooked steering until you can get another bolt to fit (not easy). Just badly bruised my arm on one fall and ended up with a big lump of blood under the skin for a few weeks. Bike needed a quick epoxy metal filling where the generator cover had a small leak from sliding down the gravel at 70 km/h.
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In California X Challenges are selling pretty cheap ... no longer produced.
I considered buying one of these when I went back to the US at the end of 2008, but all the new ones were sold out by then... a chap (from California) I was chatting to in Morocco earlier that year said that some dealers were getting rid of the last of their stock for just $6000! - which would have been extremely tempting! - that's less than I paid for my XR650R!

Even in 2007 when I was in LA I saw a brand new one in a dealership for $8000 - and that's when we were getting two dollars to the pound - makes you weep!

I reckon with a coil shock and a big tank, it would be a great off-road adventure bike...

J x
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