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Trip Paperwork Covers all documentation, carnets, customs and country requirements, how to deal with insurance etc.
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  #1  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Tax/SORN again...

Sorry for yet another post on this (I did a search but still couldn't get my head around it).

The "framework" for my upcoming journey:

Trip-Duration: 2 months EU, then 10 months through Central Asia into China, India,...Australia. After that: possibly S-America (funds permitting). In other words: more than 12 months journey time
Bike: Registered in the UK, Insured via ebikeinsurance (pay monthly), MOT until March 2009
Carnet: I'm German and can get the carnet via ADAC in Germany (note: the ADAC stopped doing carnets for non-German nationals). Hence I can't stamp the bike out in Dover.

My trip is open-ended: I might come back to the UK, I might go back to Germany, and there is also a possibility I might stay in Australia for a bit (studying - in which case I might officially import the bike into Australia & sort out the carnet somehow).

What's the best thing for me to do once I'm outside the EU?
Should I SORN the bike and cancel the insurance once I'm outside the EU (pretending that the bike is off the road & garaged in the UK)? When I get back to the UK in a year or two: Can I just re-tax it prior to arrival and pre-book the MOT?

About the Carnet from Germany: What should be my first 'Exit' stamp?Germany? Or the last EU country I'm gonna leave (Greece/Turkey)?

Another option for my return: Since I have a German carnet anyway, would it be better (or necessary?) to ship back to Germany and have the bike stamped back in the carnet? Could I then tax/insure/pre-book MOT in the UK, ride back from Germany to Dover, and then ride to the MOT?

I hope someone here can help me. Tax/Sorn/permanent export is complicated enough for me, but the German carnet adds to the confusion.

Bjorn
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  #2  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Hi Bjorn,

Looks like you want to keep your options open.

You can cancel the insurance once you leave the boundary of the insured area.

You can SORN the bike on the internet when the Tax runs out and again every 12 months.

Does not matter where the bike is when the Carnet expires as long as you have it completed for the counties entered. If you plan to stay in OZ after using the carnet to enter have it stamped clear when you pay the import tax.
Only use the carnet when required so no need to have it stamped when leaving EU

If you come back to the UK 1st Get insured, 2nd book and get an MOT 3rd get Tax.

Steve
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  #3  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Not the complete answer you are looking for, but you will not be able to retax the bike without a current MOT and you can't get that until you are back in the UK. When the UK road tax runs out or you turn it in for a refund you will have to declare it sorn or you will risk a fine in your absence which you will have to deal with when you return.
I'm fairly sure your ebike policy is only valid in Europe, so you might as well cancel that once you leave Europe and obtain a new one once you're back in the EU.
I think the German carnet is a totally separate issue.
I don't think there is a correct answer. At some point in your journey you will become illegal and there's not much you can do about it if you are away for over a year.
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  #4  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjorn View Post
When I get back to the UK in a year or two: Can I just re-tax it prior to arrival and pre-book the MOT?
No you can't. Arrange your insurance before you get back into the UK, then you'll have to sort out your MOT, and once you've done that get a tax disc.
You can legally ride without MOT/Tax if you are on the way to/from a pre-booked MOT test. If it really worries you get the bike booked in to your local test station on the day of arrival into the UK, though i personally wouldn't bother - the chances of getting stopped on your way home from the ferry are negligable.
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Old 24 Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by MarkLG View Post
If it really worries you get the bike booked in to your local test station on the day of arrival into the UK, though i personally wouldn't bother - the chances of getting stopped on your way home from the ferry are negligable.
This is the UK we are talking about, you don't need to be stopped anymore, likely you will have the number plate checked automatically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyrider
At some point in your journey you will become illegal and there's not much you can do about it if you are away for over a year
I don't see why, if you complete the SORN when the tax expires and have valid insurance for the country you are in your're legal.

Steve
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  #6  
Old 24 Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by SteveAttwood View Post
This is the UK we are talking about, you don't need to be stopped anymore, likely you will have the number plate checked automatically.

I don't see why, if you complete the SORN when the tax expires and have valid insurance for the country you are in your're legal.
Steve
Quite agree with the first point. I would no longer risk riding a non-taxed vehicle on UK roads, except to a pre-booked MOT. Too great a chance of being picked up by anpr cameras now and the biggest risk is having the bike impounded which would be rather a sad homecoming to a big trip.
As to the second, as soon as you arrive back in the EU with a UK registered, non-taxed and/or non mot'd vehicle you are technically illegal.
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Old 24 Mar 2008
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Tax / Sorn

Last year we took one of our bikes to Croatia and left it there,The tax has expired and so we have it on a sorn. we fly out to Croatia insure the bike with croation insurance company Ten days third party cover £10 .
We will be bringing the bike back to the UK at the end of this summer and so we made some enquiries with DVLC and were told that if a Vehicle is on a sorn it must be in the UK as they may need to inspect it, and that we should have exported the bike .
Any Insurance that you take out with a UK company is only valid if you have a current MOT and Tax, since we have no way of getting MOT and therefore no tax, this is not an option. But you must have third party insurance by law for all EU countries, So my plan is to do as we have done in Croatia and buy Insurance at the country borders for the shortest time period.
Upon arival at UK port find an MOT station and hope it passes.The number of registration plate recognition cameras on our roads would have you stopped within the first twenty miles.
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Old 24 Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by Rick 58 View Post
We will be bringing the bike back to the UK at the end of this summer and so we made some enquiries with DVLC and were told that if a Vehicle is on a sorn it must be in the UK as they may need to inspect it, and that we should have exported the bike .
Unfortunately our government are in the habit of passing laws which either haven't been thought through or they don't care about the consequences to a minority.
Realistically you can only export a vehicle from the UK if you are planning on importing it to another country, which isn't really an option if you are only planning on passing through with a few months in each country and you are not a resident.
My preferred option is to register my bikes in France, where there is no road tax and therefore this kind of thing wouldn't be a problem. However my chances of getting a 1977 BMW and a 1993 ex-army 350 successfully imported to France are fairly low.
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Old 24 Mar 2008
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A great piece of advice (not directly from me) on a similar thread a few weeks ago was NEVER NEVER NEVER ASK OR TELL ANYTHING OF/TO DVLA.

The people you speak to are uninformed, disinterested and also spreading what DVLA would like the position to be - not what it actually might be. No one really knows, under the highly complicated, incomprehensible and ambiguous sets of rules that now exist, having been formed through a series of knee jerk reactions, whose primary aim was to raise revenue.

SORN used to ask at which address the vehicle was kept off the road. That has now been dropped. Therefore I feel (in Lord Nelson's fine spirit - not what they pickled his body in!!) justified in SORNing a vehicle being KEPT OF THE UK PUBLIC ROADS no matter where it is - therfore not requiring UK Road Tax to be paid. I will argue that endlessly in any Court in the Land (UK) and risk the slight chance of 2 grumpy Magistrates that day.

The further you are from home (in terms of countries outside the EU) the less likely the police is to know what he is looking at. Ones primary aim must be to protect the continued journey and outside of breaking LOCAL laws I feel anything is justified to achieve this aim.
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Old 24 Mar 2008
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Thanks for all your answers – all clear now. And rest assured, I certainly won't phone the DVLA

My tax is coming up end of March, so I'll tax it for 6 months only. After that, it's a SORN

As for the carnet: Just so I understand it right: I'll start the carnet with getting stamped INTO Iran. And I'll finish it with getting stamped OUT OF Australia. (Not showing the carnet in countries that don't require a carnet).
So: At the end of my trip I could send the bike back to either the UK or Germany.

Another option could be: Stamp out of Oz, ship back to Germany, with the bike in Germany: import into Germany and get it MOT'd there

Bjorn
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  #11  
Old 25 Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
A great piece of advice (not directly from me) on a similar thread a few weeks ago was NEVER NEVER NEVER ASK OR TELL ANYTHING OF/TO DVLA.

The people you speak to are uninformed, disinterested and also spreading what DVLA would like the position to be - not what it actually might be. No one really knows, under the highly complicated, incomprehensible and ambiguous sets of rules that now exist, having been formed through a series of knee jerk reactions, whose primary aim was to raise revenue.

SORN used to ask at which address the vehicle was kept off the road. That has now been dropped. Therefore I feel (in Lord Nelson's fine spirit - not what they pickled his body in!!) justified in SORNing a vehicle being KEPT OF THE UK PUBLIC ROADS no matter where it is - therfore not requiring UK Road Tax to be paid. I will argue that endlessly in any Court in the Land (UK) and risk the slight chance of 2 grumpy Magistrates that day.

The further you are from home (in terms of countries outside the EU) the less likely the police is to know what he is looking at. Ones primary aim must be to protect the continued journey and outside of breaking LOCAL laws I feel anything is justified to achieve this aim.
I second everything he said.
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Old 29 Mar 2008
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Coming back from my last trip in Africa my vehicle was untaxed, unMOTed and uninsured. I had declared it as sorn.

I bought insurance over the phone from Morocco. So I had insurance whilst driving through Europe - the policy was posted to my uncle who veriefied it turned up etc. I timed my arrival at Calais so I could reach my normal MOT garage on the same day and had booked a MOT with them making it clear they may need to verify the booking so please write it in the diary etc.

I then passed the MOT on same day I arrived back, collected the already posted insurance documents and walked around to the Postoffice and bought the tax on my first day back.

It's the best you can do and you would win in court I think as you have done everything possible bar putting your vehicle on a tow truck to avoid breaking the law. From Dover into Central London I must have been flashed by quite a few cameras but never received a fine etc - doing it all on the same day probably helps in that regard.

At least we are not Dutch - they have to keep their vehicles taxed no matter what!
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Old 29 Mar 2008
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Grass is not always greener......

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Originally Posted by roamingyak.org View Post
At least we are not Dutch - they have to keep their vehicles taxed no matter what!
There is always someone worse off!
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Old 30 Mar 2008
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Bjorn with regard to your carnet:

I have just obtained my carnet here in Australia and have been told that to get the carnet discharged at the end of my trip, I have to physically present the bike to them. Apparently some countries will try to claim duties on the carnet even though both vouchers have been stamped. They said that if I don't present the bike at time of discharge, the carnet remains open and I could be liable for any claims against it. I don't know the rules in Germany but suspect it will be the same. That is how I understand it.

With regard to you wanting to keep the bike in Australia at the end of your trip, be very careful. You are stepping into a minefield of bureaucratic red tape. Just one of the requirements is that you have to get PRIOR approval before importing a vehicle, otherwise it simply won't be allowed in.

Maybe your best option is as you said previously- ship the bike back to Germany.

Kenny

P.S Are you going to the HU meet in Germany?
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