Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Regional Forums > Northern Asia

Northern Asia Topics specific to Russia, Central Asia (also known as "the 'stans"), Mongolia, Japan and Korea
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Refreshing, funny, informative, thought provoking, honest, inspirational, infectious, budget overlanding. A handbook, a guidebook but ultimately a genuine traveller’s tale

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12 Feb 2007
Gold Member
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posts: 86
Thanks for the responses.

The shipping agent is still requesting an ATA carnet, (NOT carnet de passage, which is what Mac19406 has got) although we might not have to get it translated, which will save a bit of money.

Does anyone in the HU community who speaks fluent Russian want to clarify a few things with the Russian customs agent via email for me? I think the language barrier might be a problem. I'll be happy to buy you a or two when I get over there in return.

I've still got time to sort this one out. It won't be the end of the trip if I have to get the carnet, but I'd rather not have the hassle, risk and expense.

I'm planning to arrive in Vladivostok on about May 28th 2007.

Let me know via email or private message:

bartman10 ({@}) gmail (dott) com

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12 Feb 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 922
there are a few guys on herewith english wives/girlfriends who might be able to help. if you haven't had any help in the next couple of weeks let me know by PM. I'll try my girlfriend but not sure if her english will be up to an exact translation!!

one thing you could try is to cut and paste the document into babel fish, that should give you a good approximation.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 15 Feb 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Tomahawk,Wisconsin
Posts: 220
carnet...smarnet

OK, so what country needs a carnet if we go west from Vladivostok to eastren Europe through Turkey.
This is the better question.
Right?
Let's make a list of carnet countries.
Could someone with one publish the list on the back of the carnet.
Please.
Arriving in Vlad June 3, headed west with a KTM 640 Adventure. So far without a carnet.
Carnetless.
Yikes....
Bill.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 15 Feb 2007
Robbert's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 486
Carnet's

Such a list should be made per country of origin of the vehicle.

With my Belgian registered vehicle, I don't need a Carnet in Europe, Turkey, Russia ... I'll need one for Iran, I don't know about Kazastan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, ... But I don't care since I need it for Iran anyway.

Also, it is not because a country is mentionned on the back of a Carnet that it requires a carnet. It should accept the carnet as a valid document that allows for temporary import though. I've used my carnet also in countries that where not mentionned on the back.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 15 Feb 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,121
Bill.
RogerM has kindly scan/reproduced the list of countries on the HUBB thread "Countries that require Carnet de Passages en Douane"

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...passages-25671

I don't know if countries have a differing policy depending on where the vehicle (and traveller?) originates from.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 15 Feb 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 922
unfortunately, as discussed in the forum elsewhere, that list is not accurate. a number of the countries listed do not require carnet. if in doubt speak to your issuing authority or email the embassy of the individual country. print off the reply and keep it in your docs.
the reassuring thing about that list though is that no former soviet states are on it!! certainly from UK you don't need carnet for any of eastern europe, except, as previously discussed, you have a big stack of expensive electronic gear.

Last edited by moggy 1968; 15 Feb 2007 at 16:37.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 15 Feb 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bribie Island Australia
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by moggy 1968 View Post
unfortunately, as discussed in the forum elsewhere, that list is not accurate. a number of the countries listed do not require carnet.
I wish people would read the footnotes in that post and not just say its inaccurate. The African footnote says that not all countries require it but the carnet is used to ease the transit process.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 15 Feb 2007
Redboots's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the border - NE FR
Posts: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerM View Post
The African footnote says that not all countries require it but the carnet is used to ease the transit process.
Just a thought.

I have been trying to get an ICMV for a French registered bike.

The French auto club say that there is not one for France and that I should use the Carnet as that contains the vehicles details translated into other languages.
This is true and so can ease your passage.

My concern is that it is a valuable document that you don't want to be giving to any Tom, Dick or policeman.

Make copies and use them where appropriate would seem to be the answer.
Do not use the real thing unless its nesessary.

John
__________________
Nostradamus Ate My Hamster
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 15 Feb 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 922
I did read the footnotes and it is inaccurate! it makes no difference in many of those african countries wether you have a carnet or not. if I hadn't read the footnotes I would have also pointed out that you don't need a carnet for the european countries mentioned, but the footnotes explain why they are mentioned!!!

really the list doesn't help very much. what people want to know is if they need a carnet or not. if you don't need one, why go to the expense of getting one, even if it does save 10 minutes at the border. I see no value in getting a carnet (£1000 for my vehicle last time I checked) unless it is an absolute requirement. personally, I think the list missleads more than it helps. Also, if you have acarnet and the worst comes to the worst and you have to dump your vehicle your in for a difficult and expensive time, whether the country concerned needed one or not. If you don't need it, save yourself a lot of hassle and expense and don't have one.
Anyone that wants to have a look at the various threads about this list follow the link above, I don't want to hijak someone elses thread anymore! then you can form your own opinion.
I'm not having a go roger so don't take it personally!
just IMHO of course so don't hang me for it!!

Last edited by moggy 1968; 15 Feb 2007 at 19:26.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 16 Feb 2007
Gold Member
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posts: 86
Thanks guys! Just one point I'd like to make...

I think everyone needs to be more specific about carnets when they post questions and answers about them.

As I have recently discovered these are two separate documents, and some countries may require one type of carnet and not the other.

Could you please specify if you are talking about an ATA carnet or a carnet de passage?

I think it would be very upsetting if you got to a border and found you had spent $20,000 on the wrong type!

Thanks for all the offers of help, it's very much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 16 Feb 2007
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbert View Post
Such a list should be made per country of origin of the vehicle.
Don't think that matters.

The carnet simply says that the vehicle will not be staying in the country. If it were to stay then there would be import duties/taxes.. no matter where it came from. The taxes and fees may change with vehicle origin .. but not the requirement?
__________________
---
Regards Frank Warner
motorcycles BMW R80 G/S 1981, BMW K11LT 1993, BMW K75 G/S
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 16 Feb 2007
Robbert's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 486
Off cours it matters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner View Post
Don't think that matters.

The carnet simply says that the vehicle will not be staying in the country. If it were to stay then there would be import duties/taxes.. no matter where it came from. The taxes and fees may change with vehicle origin .. but not the requirement?
Off Course it matters. Taking a Belgian vehicle into Syria requires a Carnet, taking a Lebanese vehicle into Syria doesn't. Depending on the country the vehicle comes from, the rules may be different. There are some differences with German vehicles compared to Belgian vehicles in Nigeria or Cameroon (don't remember which one) for instance.

Cheers,

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 19 Feb 2007
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nagano, Japan
Posts: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartman10 View Post
As I have recently discovered these are two separate documents, and some countries may require one type of carnet and not the other.

Could you please specify if you are talking about an ATA carnet or a carnet de passage?
Yes, there are two types of carnet.
However, here, we only refer to the CDP. The ATA carnet is not for personal transportation. It can be used for exhibitions or races and for many things other than vehicles. Russia has a system for temporary import of personal vehicles that does not require a carnet.
The reason you are presumably having trouble with the difference is that many places do not see very many personal vehicles coming through customs, especially ports that mostly handle freight. Most of the personal foreign vehicles going to Vladivostok (I assume that is where you are going, as you would save a lot of problems going to a 'western' country first if you are going from the other end) are by ferry from Japan. And those are only like 10 a year.
The big problem will be getting the carnet stampted OUT at a land border. As Russia does not require a CDP for land transportation, the border crossing people probably will not stamp you out.
If your shipper won't handle you without a carnet, find another one or ship to Japan first with a CDP then take the ferry to Vladivostok.
__________________
Japan touring information
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 19 Feb 2007
Gold Member
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris in Tokyo View Post
Yes, there are two types of carnet.
However, here, we only refer to the CDP. The ATA carnet is not for personal transportation. It can be used for exhibitions or races and for many things other than vehicles. Russia has a system for temporary import of personal vehicles that does not require a carnet.
The reason you are presumably having trouble with the difference is that many places do not see very many personal vehicles coming through customs, especially ports that mostly handle freight. Most of the personal foreign vehicles going to Vladivostok (I assume that is where you are going, as you would save a lot of problems going to a 'western' country first if you are going from the other end) are by ferry from Japan. And those are only like 10 a year.
The big problem will be getting the carnet stampted OUT at a land border. As Russia does not require a CDP for land transportation, the border crossing people probably will not stamp you out.
If your shipper won't handle you without a carnet, find another one or ship to Japan first with a CDP then take the ferry to Vladivostok.
Thanks for the info. I might take your advice and try and find another customs agent, or go with plan #2 which involves Korea and the Dong Chun Ferry.

The customs agent in Vlad is insisting on an ATA carnet for the motorbikes and personal effects. It appears to be wrong and I can't understand it, but that's what they want. They haven't mentioned a carnet de passage, ONLY an ATA carnet.

So stamping a CDP out will never be a problem, since I won't have one of those. They don't want one of those. Forget the CDP.

We're talking ATA.

Therefore stamping the ATA carnet out could be a problem, if it transpires that they insist.

Anyway, it's probably only a minor glitch. As far as the trip is going every thing is going nicely. We've got most of our gear, a heap of sponsorship, set up our bikes and saved a pile of money. Off to the Doc next week for our vaccines. Just the visas and this carnet problem to resolve....

I'll keep you posted.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 19 Feb 2007
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nagano, Japan
Posts: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartman10 View Post
The customs agent in Vlad is insisting on an ATA carnet for the motorbikes and personal effects. It appears to be wrong and I can't understand it, but that's what they want.
Well, the agent may want a Carnet for you, but no telling what customs itself will ask for. You may be able to pass customs with and ATA carnet, but once on the road, it does not give you permission to drive.
The following image is what I have gotten in the past after making customs declaration. This was from the Kazakh-Russian border, but I got the same thing in Vlad. Try forwarding it and telling them you want one of these issued. This is the magic paper that every police checkpoint will want to see. Police like official papers with stamps on them!
(I have blocked out personal information)
__________________
Japan touring information
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
visa questions bmw.bec Sahara Travel Forum 11 16 Mar 2008 14:23
Visa Africa RalEva Trip Paperwork 16 19 Mar 2007 13:03
Carnet for Russia and Mongolia Ian Northern Asia 10 18 Apr 2006 18:42
Visa, insurance and carnet for Russia (and baltics) cornepol Europe 7 3 Mar 2004 04:19
Carnet for Russia, Zilov Gap and Siberia Ian Southern Asia 5 10 Dec 2002 11:57

 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:43.