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  #1  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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Carrying M'bike on back of vehicle

I've got an engineering problem, I'm looking for solutions to carrying a KTM on the back of this lorry.

The main issues are

how to get it up,
how to get it down,
how to secure it
how to get access to the rear door without having to get the bike down

I'm brainstorming this with various parties but could do with a bit of inspiration. The bugger is the height of the back of the lorry (a good 5 foot)


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  #2  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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You key difficulty seems to be the back door. Most trucks set up with bikes on the back have a side door instead. There seem to be quite a few designs including mounting a sliding frame on the back with a small winch mounted at the top. Your key challenge will be that the frame would also need to be hinged to one side, similar to a rear wheel carrier to enable it to move to one side. Aside from the challenge of creating a sliding frame going up and down that can also hinge sideways which wouldn't be insurmountable, the key aspect will be whether the frame of the vehicle could support this level of weight on the hinge. Alternative approaches could be either looking at whether you could mount the bike up front on the bull bar instead - doesn't seem as great but you do see a few overland trucks with this set up. Another option could be relocating the door - could you create a side access and not have to use the rear door as this will significantly simplify your engineering challenge.

(Picture isn't loading, tends to happen on this PC so presuming answer makes sense with picture)

Last edited by Toby2; 9 Jan 2009 at 15:54.
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  #3  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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I've seen some photos of Peter at Bikers Home in the desert with a somewhat similar arrangement on either a Daf 4400 or a Unimog. He had what looked like a roof-mounted hoist. Perhaps he can suggest something?

Does it have to go across the back--could it be mounted on the side?

Tim
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  #4  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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I've been pondering the same problem on my land-rover 109 forward control.
The idea I was planning but haven't carried out yet (far more basic mechanical work to do) was to have a rear mounted winch that could be used for rearwards recovery (often you don't want to go deeper into the mire) coupled with a simple L frame on the roof that can swing out and have the winch cable ran over it to lift the bike. It would also raise and lower the twin spare wheels I've got on the back. My truck has the advantage of no rear door.
Some people reckon having no rear door is more secure as you can keep an eye on side doors easier, paranoia possibly.
Sorry for the lack of photos but it's too dark outside work hours.
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  #5  
Old 8 Jan 2009
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Go the whole hog and have a hydraulic tailgate loader fitted, double as a bike carrier, put some cutouts in the floor for the wheels to sit in, tie down eyes, rear under run of course, and a personal lift up to the rear door. I can see the lift function being a better "chic puller" as climbing up a ladder into the back of your truck will be a turn off!!

Tieman Industries > tailgate loaders
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  #6  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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I'm looking at the possibility of a single column light weight tail lift.............yet to find one though
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Old 9 Jan 2009
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Not sideways, up!

Hello Gimp, How’s the headroom in your box ?
I would have thought you lose a stack of storage space with those angled sites, most camper conversions use those top corners for cupboards. Not to mention all that bonnet length which could be living space (shudagotaGAZ ;-) )

How to carry the tender to your yacht:
It might have been a 2 stroke, I’m not a bikespotter, but I have seen a motorbike mounted vertically on the back of an overland truck.
The rack consisted of a U section that slid in a larger U vertically on the back of the truck.
A picture’s worth a thousand words so take a look at the attachment (sorry about the appalling handwriting):

For lowering and raising, only the front wheel clip held it, but once up, the bike was secured laterally with a big ratchet strap which crossed a specially prepared spot between the tank and the seat, anchored wide on the truck’s back wall. He really cranked down on the strap, and the u in a u didn’t rattle at all.
You can make the outer u long enough for the inner U to reach the ground without derailing.

I like the idea of rerouting the rear mounted winch cable so as not to double up on electrical kit (the logic behind mounting a winch on the back is impeccable; you know that where you’ve been is driveable)

I don’t know motorbikes well enough to know if a 4 stroke with its sump can put up with vertical storage but I can’t see why not, when you consider what an off-road bike goes through in use.
Good luck
Luke
(I’ve been lurking on your fun and friendly forum for a bit, but my dream vehicle is Czeck, not Russian, and until She lets me get one I wouldn’t have much to contribute)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf bike rack.pdf (18.8 KB, 204 views)
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Old 9 Jan 2009
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Gimpy - you should've asked me on Zil131.com! Your first mistake was choosing URAL over Zil but oh well, now you're commited...at least it's not a GAZ66

On my 131 the box is strong enough to allow almost any standard column type tail lift to be attached. You see these tail lifts on all kinds of mundane 7.5 tonne delivery trucks. Mostly they have a platform to roll the goods onto and often the platform can fold up. They are electric and at the press of a button will lift the payload up and down. Google tail lift and you'll see what they are. Also you can pick up second hand ones off ebay cheap (< £150).

To maintain the departure angle the apparatus should lift the bike quite high, about half way up the box and for our application I don't trust these tail lifts to be sufficiently robust enough to carry the bike off road long term - depends on the bike (I'm fixing a heavy Ural K750 - my KTM goes INSIDE!) you might feel the tail lift/platform is plenty strong enough. This means you need to fabricate a platform to rest and attach the bike on/to having lifted it up. I'm planning to emulate the spare wheel carrier for this purpose, attached to the chassis and hinged like the spare wheel carrier is. This is what will carry the bike on the move, the tail lift is there just to lift the bike. The platform of the tail lift will be altered just to lift the bike beneath its' tyres or depending on what I get maybe fold out of the way.

With your LAK body if you want to use a column lift you will need to have a structure fabricated to attach the tail lift to (the vertical runners) as the fibre glass my not take the strain. You are fortunate that your East German URAL has the spare wheel between the cab and box so you have more room on the back of the box than other URAL's or my Zil will have. There is another type of tail lift called a "Tuckaway" or cantilever type tail lift that may be more suitable for your truck. Download this PDF and you'll see how this one works http://www.palfinger.com/palfinger/20360_EN.pdf but basically it attaches to the cross member at the back of your chassis rail only - no vertical columns needed and tucks away there when not in use. The absence of the spare on the back might mean you can lift your bike to a lower height which these lifts seem to do and still maintain the departure angle and it might be robust enough to carry the bike on the move too so no further platform will be needed. One of these designed to lift 1,000 Kg or reven 2,500 kg should carry a 200 kg bike even off road and if you can score a re-conned one...If I can find one cheap or re-coned I may use this type myself on my Zil if it lifts high enough. In this PDF there's a wide range of tail lifts complete with dimensions and drawings, check out the partial width cantilever type in particular: http://www.rossandbonnyman.co.uk/pdf/TAILLIFTS.pdf

There may be simpler solutions than this but most of the kit is standard and a bit of welding and fabrication and you have a getup as strong as the rest of your truck - your fabricator should be able to figure it all out. Also you will still be able to use the rear doors AND lift up 600 tins of amber nectar in one go! Can't be bad.

And that KTM better be a 950 Enduro R too or you are just gonna spoil the whole image of your URAL
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Last edited by Fastship; 9 Jan 2009 at 12:23.
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  #9  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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Another use for a tail lift

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  #10  
Old 9 Jan 2009
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Must be a sod getting the spare wheel off. Perhaps the table retracts into the 'floor' like some devilish prop in a Bond movie.

Q
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  #11  
Old 10 Jan 2009
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...just wondering if there is room to place the bike where the spare wheel is and relocate the spare wheel?
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Old 10 Jan 2009
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Good point well presented, will have a look at it
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  #13  
Old 10 Jan 2009
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Here is some inspiration...

It is made for a pickup truck but the principle could be applied to your vehicule

UltimateMXHauler

Patrick
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  #14  
Old 14 Jan 2009
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The problem with your container is that it is made of aluminium (correct me if I am wrong). It is not that strong.
What I have seen so far is they mounted a subframe against the container and made a big hinge and an L-frame to mount the bike

picture from: WWW.ya4440.aanhet.net

But it is always heavy

regards,

Henk Jan
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  #15  
Old 14 Jan 2009
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I’ve been having a similar design problem with my truck at the moment.

The truck is an 18t box van and is already fitted with a 1.5tonne column tail lift; I would like to use the lift as a platform for storing a quad bike. The alternative of using a trailer would mean I would need to take my artic test which is both expensive and time consuming. The manufacturer’s recommendation is that the tail lift cannot be used to carry goods while the vehicle is moving but is anyone aware of an example where someone has modified such a tail-lift to carry a bike or quad?

I have some ideas but it is always reassuring to know that someone has already done it.

I plan to fabricate brackets so that the tail lift can be pinned rigidily to the truck on either side, preventing it from moving up or down. I will also use a straight bar to prevent the tail-lift from rotating as the truck goes over a bump. Apologies for the rubbish drawing but it gives an idea of what I plan to do, the straight bar is the red line and the pins are the red dots.



I am aware that I will need to attatch a lighting board and underrun bar whenever I intend to drive with the tail-lift down.

Anu suggestions as to whether my idea is safe or feasible?
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