Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

As the obvious affects of world wide climate change continue to worsen, how will travelers cope?

With possible massive forced migration, food and water shortages and general unstable govts., how will a motorcycle traveler deal with such things? :innocent:

Many think "Climate Changes" will only mean higher temps. But science (and reality) now tell us it's Everything that is affected: Record high temps world wide, but Colder temps as well.

Higher winds, longer, more severe droughts followed by record setting floods. More Hurricanes/Tornadoes than ever before and in places that never have had them.

The daily news tells the story best. We see it everywhere round the world from Antarctica to India.

Can motorcycle folk survive and tread there way through? How much more dangerous will MC travel become? Where can we go that might be "safe"?
How much time have we got?

Do we care? Are we just going to ride the Bomb down to oblivion like Slim Picken's did in Dr. Strangelove? (Cowboy Slim "rides" an A-bomb down from his B-52 ... and starts the end of the world)

Recent topics here attempt to describe "Adventure travel". Seems to me as Climate Change truly takes hold travel may become an impossible adventure.

?c?

I think you're being rather dramatic, and looking at it as if the climate is suddenly going to 'change'. It's a continuous process.

Maybe think of the number of motorcycle travellers who are affected by unusually strong hurricanes or typhoons, tornadoes, tidal waves, floods etc etc and multiply it by some factor. I don't think it's going to make much difference.

The machinations of world politics are far more likely to affect the plans of travellers, just as they have done for years. My parents generation could safely drive all over the Sahara, but had no real chance to visit much of the Soviet Union for example.

I have been thinking that climate change will influence the world in general and so will have an influence on adventurers as well.
But new ways will be found and new ideas will be forthcoming because the human race is an adapting one.
:stormy::palm::rain::Beach::mchappy::clap:

there is no climate change, what we observe is climate shift. Normal thing,
happened many times in history of Earth. Nothing to worry about.

+1.

Would you buy a second hand/owner vehicle from the likes of Al Gore?
Thought not.

Agree with the climate shifting (i thought a shift was a change as well?)
Also agree with it happening before but nothing to worry about ? Only if you happen to live anything over 25 meters above sea level and you hope to last a good number of years. If the sea levels are rising this will have a serious impact on global weather patterns. The timescale in which that happens remains to be seen.

Yes, Man Made Emissions are such a threat the Western Countries have taken regulated manufacturing and sent it to Unregulated China.

If you ever read the Bible you have all the answers you need as to what is going on, no its nothing mythical, nothing godlike, merely the higher powers (Government, or whomever pulls the strings) using the same biblical stratagy.
There will BE FLOODS< THERE WILL BE FIRES, THERE WILL BE FAMINE, EARTHQUAKES! And all the other crap that happens all the time.
Now they rolled into "Science' you know, the same science that cannot seem to tell you what tomorrows weather is actually gonna do.

Anyhow, just a joke. Nothing to worry about, we are leaving a little ice age and lots of strange things are happening we do not understand. It is important to understand that Modern Science, is actually extremely young. So when they say "The worst storm in history" rack that up to the worst storm in 80 years or some such nonsense. Which is not always the case.
Much of the US worst events have already happened Decades ago.

Travel, enjoy and worry not about that of which you have no control, other than turning off the TV fear mongers trying to control you.

For you it will Mouldydog! You should stay at home, stay off the net, turn all your power off, if you must go out ride a pushbike!

:nono:

Exactly the point ... and when climate events happen this WILL affect politics.
Big time. Once a country declares a "State of Siege" it will become quite difficult to cross borders or continents.

I'm surprised to see actual climate deniers on this site. I guess HUBB members don't read science journals and believe this is all just a Bible story.
:rofl:

molly

if you were from Minnesota I could understand your thread,but how do you
get cabin fever in California????

I came from the Global warming side nonsense, education and questioning changes everything. Try reading what I wrote, then taking your own advice and reading of that science and in the meantime. Unless you can refute anything I stated, you know about the west increasing polutants in China cause the WORLD IS GONNA END IF YOU DO IN THE WEST, and only in the west.
enjoy your ARk

Pure ignorance. You're living in a fool's paradise. Look at the science, do some reading ... and check out the history. Nothing to worry about?
:rofl: What? Me Worry? :rofl:

We knew this was coming back in 1977 when I landed in a Twin Otter on a Tabular ice berg the size of New Hampshire. (1/3 size of UK?) Also the year they discovered a hole in the Ozone among other things we did that year.

I supported Glaciologists (and many other scientists from many disciplines) in Antarctic from '76 to '79. They knew little back then ... but have learned a whole lot more since. The rapid changes that are now well documented are unprecedented ... and show things that normally would take thousands (or ten's of thousands) of years to occur are happening all the time.
And that's a fact.

I remember interviewing a 89 year old Fisherman in Peru' in 1975.
This back when the first "El Nino" was happening. This old guy said he'd never seen anything like it ... and nothing similar had happened during his or his Fathers' lifetime (Father lived into his 80's).

More recently in Peru', they've had massive Fish die offs no one can explain. Tens of millions of dead Fish. Explain please. :innocent:

So nearly 200 years (a spec in geologic time) of personal experience from some modest fisherfolk of Peru'. What does it mean?
These guys spend their life at sea in small boats. The changes the old man saw he could not believe nor explain. He could only cry.

At the time I had no idea what climate change or global warming was, but we sure as Hell could see something was up and knew this old guy was not making any of this up.

Since then much has been uncovered, studied and proven. 90% of serious, credentialed scientists believe Climate Change is real ... and have PROOF. What's your proof? The Bible? :rofl:

Are ALL these scientists being "paid off"? Are they Commie Rats? And why are the oil companies trying so hard (and spending millions) to shut them up! doh (but can't!) ?c?

It's real folks. Get used to it. This is not some Hippy conspiracy. But back to the question ... how will you get on your bike and ride once the world begins to fall into chaos? Govts. collapse, infrastructure fails and there is no one around to
"Fix things"? :oops2:

Scientists need money my dear, the money is in being an Alarmist, actually it usually is.


Not sure why you have to belittle other members, cant you just sit down and open your mind?

In the 1930's the Germans realised their standard of living could not be sustained given that their agricultural output was maxed out and they were running out of people to sell basic manufactured goods to. A nasty little man and a few dodgy scientists offered a solution that involved the biggest war ever. The rebuild made the cake bigger but sliced it a bit more evenly, hence our grand parents could travel more freely.

Today we have massive populations who aren't going to live at a tenth of US standards, yet the planet is no bigger. Efficiency solutions may come, but you can expect a few fast and easy solutions involving simply grabbing a bomb and moving to where they have air conditioning in the mean time.

How we live and travel now is as unsustainable as century old dreams of treking across Africa with teams of natives to carry your gramophone, dinner service and wine cellar. If we are lucky there will be space for us all on the bus tours, if not we may be going fully funded but all dressed in khaki.

Wishful thinking by air conditioning owners will not change the simple sum of world GDP divided by world population.
Andy

And the worlds flat and carried on by 4 elephants riding the back of a celestial turtle doh

Back to the original question..........if you bikes are getting a little damp, buy a 4x4 and stay dry and cosy :D

Personally I see the current global conflicts, IS etc as more of a threat to adventure travel than Global Warming

Man, thou doth protest too much.

Take the Californian chill pill for the new year.

By the way, it's not real - it is just one more belief system, just as the religion that you tend to belittle.
Throughout the very short history of science, real science that is, the large majority beliefs at any one time have usually been wrong, dead wrong.
A small minority have persevered and eventually published the true state of knowledge.
In recent history of science, the politicians are well ahead of you in this and have taken over the agenda while paying off the academics to write junk science and muzzling the academic "non-violent extremists" via the use of administrators and top down managers.
It equates to the Spanish Inquisition of just a few hundred years ago but now perpetrated by slightly more subtle means.
In this way, the politicians have seen that the fear they need to instill in their populations in order to control them can be continued indefinitely via their own brand of new world order.

Your use of the word "denier" is typical of this whole process - sad to say, but you should take an unblinkered look at what is going on in your own academic institutions in the USA.

it's amazing how naive people are believing in every "scientific" study published
not even questioning who funded it :rofl:

p.s.
It's very easy to manipulate uneducated people and the lowering of public education standards in recent years is not a coincidence. That should be alarming, not climate change. doh

River of Myths
 

I hardly touched on this aspect in my last post but it is far more troubling than the man made myths put about by governments, spin doctors, PR gurus, advertising agencies, NGOs with vested interests and the main stream media including the TV channels.

It also needs to be recognised that the likes of the BBC news, including the world news output, is also complicit in the dumbing down of the information provided to populations.

Knowledge, real knowledge, is power; so don't let the plebiscite get too close to it!

I don't worry about it for I have realised it is all self regulating.
Take fishing for instance, bigger and bigger boats taking bigger and bigger catches. They play around with quotas, but in the end it does not matter at all. One day a fishing boat will take the last big shoal of its target fish and there will be no more. The fishermen will go broke, the boat scrapped and in a hundred years or so the fish will start to return.

Same with climate. All hoo ha about emissions, never a word about all the trees we have lost. Each one a little solar powered factory removing carbon and other pollutants,(about two tons a year each), freeing pure oxygen for us to breathe and storing and controlling the water that now floods freely. Eventually the world will become uninhabitable thus removing the root cause of the problem. It will recover.

There is good sensible science in among the mumbo jumbo and I do subscribe to sensible regulation to control the release of pollutants, as just one example, lead free petrol.
But, as outlined in my earlier posts, and it is just a bare bones outline, the agenda has been perverted by powerful interests to serve their own ends.

Regarding trees; take a quick look at the current policy for generating electrical power at Drax power station to see the folly of "unintended consequences".

Its alarming how many millions have been suckered into the complete fiction of religion over the millennia or do you believe that religion is fact because it wasn't funded by a Government?

Climate Change is well established scientific fact, it's the extent of mans influence on the natural process that is still an emerging science.

OldBMW is spot on, the planet will eventually recover with or without us here to see it

(Good to see the HuBB Pub is started the New Year at a low point)

Read this interview with James Lovelock:

James Lovelock: 'enjoy life while you can: in 20 years global warming will hit the fan' | Environment | The Guardian

there is not much more to be said really. Although I don't agree with his belief that nuclear power will help us.

The problem, IMHO is the Earth is grossly over populated with people and the consequential effect is climate change and mass extinction of other species. The change is taking place now and so it will continue.

As for independent travel by motorcycle / car etc. I think that has a limited future. So enjoy it while you can.

Thanks for the reminder; it's been a while since I heard about his Gaia theory, and I see that he is now aged 88.

I guess Lovelock doesn't get too much public scrutiny nowadays, whereas the guy who runs the web site below has had that very thing in some quarters of the UK, recently.
Welcome

It has been said that the UN has a policy about the world population; I haven't gone too far into that but there is a very interesting presentation by a Swedish medical doctor and statistician about population growth - it's worth a look; along the way he touchs on the subject of ignorance especially among university graduates fed on conventional "wisdom".

Hans Rosling is the docs name and the video is called something like "Don't panic" (he is an optimist).

ps
His 1 hour vid is named Don't panic and it can be seen via various outlets (thanks internet!).
Gapminder is one source of the vid which also tends to bring up reference to the short talks produced under the moniker "TED" - they can also be of interest.

Is Pluto a planet or a moon?
 

Rather weirdly, no one appears to have argued, strongly anyway, about "man made" global consequences (anthropomorphic effects).

I saw a report recently - apologies, I didn't take much notice at the time - to wit all of the planets in our wee solar system are currently changing "climate".

I'll leave the astrophysicists among the HUBB to discuss further, but is Pluto getting warmer or colder?

Piers Corbyn is very likely getting more media attention due to his brother becoming Labour Leader! heaven forbid politics come into it :Lol:

Here we have "Scientist" who refuses to publish the methodology of his forecasts for independent review. Appeared on Channel 4's The Great Climate Change Swindle as Dr Piers Corbyn despite not actually holding any doctorate.

Peer Review of his forecasts concluded

"The results provide little evidence to dismiss the observed success rates as being attributable to mere chance or good fortune"

And the final stunner he has been funded by the oil industry to counter climate change science. Not like there's an agenda behind the oil industries funding is there!

Oh Ok, but the "green movement" is not an industry itself? Do you really think all these billion dollar green plants are built by people who want nothing more than to help the planet? Hell no, those investments are made by people who want to make money as well, and so they do, big money some are evn *Shudder* the big oil companies themselves.

Some history for ya, market dictates more than anything else, that means YOU!
Big Oil And Renewables: Not So Strange Bedfellows - NASDAQ.com

I also attached a picture of early climate change, you know, before mankind.

Some interesting points made here. Without wanting to target individual replies, I would like to remark on the following...

- Some people may have difficulty in appreciating the difference between what they themselves don't know and what science itself doesn't know;

- The media twist and exaggerate all stories, there is always an agenda. It is indeed always necessary to see who funds what research. Academia is of course subject to market forces and differences in opinion;

- I'm not sure if science is a belief system, I think this depends upon how the individual approaches it; there is plenty of bad science out there (e.g. the pseudo-science theories that appeal to certain types of 'believer'), but somehow, as has been observed, the better science tends to last. Unlike religion, science relies on evidence and can evolve;

- Anyone coming from a religious standpoint is obviously happy to believe in certain things without having any evidence for them, so it seems odd to then come to the dialectic criticising others for their lack of evidence;

- I think we can all see that the climate is changing; most likely augmented to some unknown extent by anthropogenic activity, flippancy is easy in those whose homes and livelihoods are not affected by an increase in climate variability or rising sea levels.

- People have been predicting a 'population bomb' since at least the 1960s: mass famines, armageddon etc etc but so far it has yet to come to light. Almost everywhere in the world people are living healthier, longer lives now than ever before.

But back to the original thought; no, I don't think this will have any real effect on overland travel!

Thanks for that. I found it rather an eye opener. It's a bit lengthy but very well explained and I'd advise any one a look at that.

Don’t Panic – The Facts About Population

An eye opener for me also.

While it is very easy to forget specific statistics, I particularly recall his reference to both washing machines and the pedal cycle.

I think he does have some shorter presentations in the TED series, but the 1 hour version remains the bees knees.

Hans Rosling expounds on this very eloquently.

Meanwhile, Geldof the showman, et al other "celebrities", have a lot to answer for.

Lovelock is now aged somewhere into his 90s.
The earlier ref to him was an article from a few years ago so apols for getting his age mixed up.
I do like his approach to critical thinking, even though we could all disagree with one or more aspects of his conclusions.
Also, he is quite prepared to modify his views based on further evidence which is the essence of the good science of the past few hundred years of "the enlightenment".
From 2013:
James Lovelock: A man for all seasons

Matt Ridley's 'The Positive Optimist' is a good read, showing how various catastrophes have entered the public mind (e.g. the Millennium Bug), never to appear, and that despite all this, people are still better off living today than ever before.

Worth a read!

Lol Having studied Climate Science a long time ago I don't need any lectures on natural climate change although it seems some of the deniers do.

To be fair I suspect any Geologist would debate if your 2 photos are evidence of climate change or rather geology in action:oops2:

To add to a couple of those points.

The belief systems of homo sapiens have evolved and will continue to do so.
In most places I think we have stopped making blood sacrifices, including of humans, to the Sun and Moon every so often; but somewhere in the world some kind of witch doctor status geezer may be doing something of that nature right now.
Education has to be a key element in this, but by who and for what ends?

I haven't seen flippancy so far in this discourse; it is possible I suppose and black humour can be an antidote in itself in "difficult cases".

Much of what Lovelock has written in the past deals with this IMO: "mankind is very adaptable and will muddle through one way or the other" might paraphrase him in the proverbial nutshell.

Ideologies; all of them, there lies the enemy.

He has published quite a lot I think including some TED talks.
"The rational optimist" perhaps?
Rational Optimist Book | Matt Ridley

That's the one, thanks :)

It, the solution, was influenced by Californian policies of the day apparently - I didn't know that, until now.
The misuse of Malthus | Matt Ridley

I was aware that USA sourced state-of-the-art-of-the-day programming machines (supplied by IBM IIRC) were used to coordinate the Nazi eugenic policy.
Nothing gets in the way of business.

:offtopic:? Possibly not.


ps
Read on in that blog and there is passing reference to UN ideology right up to the present day.

In the perspective of climate change, motorcycle travel seems one of the least things to worry about.

Interestingly enough, the consumption of fossil fuels does not only contribute to the climate change, but it also sponsors the religion inspired violence in the middle east and far beyond (including 9/11, Paris and all those things in between, including boko haram, including why the Sahara currently is off limits for a very large part). Think of that when you fuel up... .

And yes, the world has seen climate change in the past. Much longer than 6000 years ago. And tempartures and sea levels can be very well correlated to atmospheric CO2 concentration. Maybe that doesn't proof anything, but... . Don't we wear protective clothing just in case... . Don't we treat our water, just in case... .

From the reading I have done elsewhere, the correlation is that the increases in atmospheric CO2 have followed the respective ice ages; in other words, they are a result of climate change rather than the cause.

Sea levels have changed by about 12 inches in a century I have just been reading, which provides more than enough time for man to adapt - London did so actually with the construction of the Thames flood barrier in the 1970s, a project that followed on from rational debate of the day.

Meanwhile, while the ice sheet of the Artic has decreased in recent times, that of the Antartic has increased, so I read.
I have seen this reported elsewhere and there is a concept in play that one compensates for the other i.e. over a long time, each one shrinks and expands in a form of Gaia-like balance.

I was amused by the research ship of a couple of years ago that visited Antartica with the express intention of "proving" the ice sheet there was shrinking (good idea; lets adopt an ideology and set out to prove it correct) - in short, the ship got stuck in the ice and the researchers had to be rescued, no doubt at great expense and expenditure of various forms of emissions by someone.

Finally, for now:
"One recent survey shows that 27% of US Democrats are in favour of prosecuting climate sceptics. This is the mentality of religious fanaticism, not scientific debate".
Five articles on climate change | Matt Ridley

No wonder the 50 states of the union have little faith in their federal government.

My thanks go to Mollydog for raising a great question for the new year.
If this whole subject were to be considered in court it might be thrown out as "not proven".

It will not affect us so much as we are rich but shure if the world population doubles there will be more fights and wars about the recources on this planet so traveler will become more visa problems.

I don't think anyone has mentioned in here, over the past summer of travels, the 1 million who have entered Germany (not Europe, but Germany specifically because that is where they want to be).
I fully expected someone to mention having seen this recent migration during their travels.

Perhaps that movement was insignificant - not sufficiently massive and/or not sufficiently forced?
Time will tell.


Hans Rosling has a very concise argument for why the population will not double.
Nevertheless, the fight for resources will continue if only in lieu of the earlier battles for living space into which tribes can expand - some historians say that was why the Zulu engaged the British in battle.
The Zulu Rubicon was crossed, in the Zulu mind at least.

Well but thats not because of clima change but because of money reasons.
While the people could live in peace in many other countrys as well they chose to migrate to germany because in Germany they will not only get a flat and food for free but also more cache money and children money and old peoples care etc. then they would earn while working in their home countrys or somewere else.

Right now they are building thousends of new houses for imigrants. They never did this for homeles german people.

The german governmet sees it selfe as the middle of the world but has forgotten how small Germany actually is and that they will not be able to feed everyone, if the news of free money spreads through all of Africa and Asia.

Ah and most importend: While the Government invited the people to come its not them who will have to pay for the costs of all the imigrants but its the small working german population who allready pays for Greece, Irland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Romania etc. because nowbody ever asked them. The German depts are 80% of the tax income per year or 26.816 Euro per german citizen and rising. Now houses of imigrants are burning...

Correct, but it is not just big oil, that is nonsense perpetuated by the left to demonize. From sweatshops to oil, to diamonds lots of reason for conflicts, most of which do not need to be happening. However leave it to a government to make sure YOU the consumer are at fault, you are not.
you like anyone else need to exist, you do not put forth the rules which dictate horrible or good corporations. There was a time when we could choose with our pocket books, now you are forced to buy from a handful of corporations boo on them.

Co2 is also part of our atmosphere which saves us from being baked from the Sun, that convenient part is left out.
Things which need to be worried about is pollution in general, mostly from organic Chemicals.

I actually held his theory although on the Biblical fear end (If anyone at this point thinks I am a holy roller, your reading comprehension is very much lacking) as a means of control. However the premise of his thoughts are correct, please do your own research, it is how I came from the global warming side.

I grew up in what is now the worlds largest reclamation site, so I hvae a very different view of pollution than most. For your consideration
Thoughts of the Ages: When will it end?

State of Fear - MichaelCrichton.com

I didn’t want to write it. I decided I wouldn’t write it. I had breakfast with a friend of mine who I hadn’t seen in 30 years and I told them my dilemma and he said no, you have to write it. I said I might get killed for this. He said, no, you have to write it. I would like to be able to say that as a result of that conversation I decided to write it. I didn’t. I went home and I thought, you know, I’m not writing this. It doesn’t matter. Keep my opinion to myself. I started to work on something else and I felt like a coward and I thought what are you going to do? You have looked at the data and you really believe that it’s in effect but not something that we as human beings should be worrying about. […] It’s low on the totem pole. We ought to be taking care of disease. We ought to be taking care of world hunger. We ought to be taking care of a lot of things before we do this.

I cannot believe I am the first to point out, that Hollywood has proven we will ride on!:funmeteryes:

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Well said young man (you have to be younger than me :thumbup1:).

On your final point, you are not alone - until today I had forgotten or never knew (that age thing again!) that Viscount Ridley has a blog.
Here is an extract from about 4 weeks ago: as I say, you are not alone.

"The Paris climate has attracted about 40,000 conference delegates and camp followers, ranging from politicians and civil servants to journalists and campaigners. I don’t have the numbers, but I would be willing to bet that a very small number of them paid their own air fares or hotel bills. A goodly proportion will have sent the bill to taxpayers in various countries, either directly or via the grants that governments give to green pressure groups.
Perhaps the politicians should stop listening to the vested interest of the Green Blob begin asking what long-suffering taxpayers and real voters think about hitting poor people today so as to raise the incomes of very rich people by 1.3% in 2100?"
It is the summary of his blog entry here, for reference:
Five articles on climate change | Matt Ridley

ps
I didn't read your earlier posts as coming from the perspective of a "bible thumper" but it can be easy to misread the written word.
Of course, there was an era when it was forbidden, on pain of death, to print the bible and disseminate it to the common man - such would never do for the simple reason that it would undermine the power of the church of the day.

Only with a BMW product perhaps.
Like the cockroaches, they can survive anything.

Unfortunately only as long as they pay big money to hollywood but not in reality. Guess why here are more problem threads about BMW bikes here then any other bike brands?
Well if the world population doubles every 25 years, in future the brand of your gun will be more importend...

One can only be expected to listen so much choral harmony before reaching for the knobkerie.

Andy

It's one of the reasons we want to jump ship and move somewhere else. Europe isn't big enough any longer. It's not the actual space available but the small mindedness of the people (and politicians) living there.
We no longer desire a nice big house/car/TV and paycheck to pay for it all. We want to be, or at least feel free, to do what we want and be happy.

Ice age is really recent and CO2 levels where low and have been low since. If we want to compare with history, we'll have to go back to the miocene when carbon dioxide levels where comparable to what we see today, some 15 million years ago, and see levels closer to 1000 inches higher... .

Some things to consider.

The United States wastes Half of the worlds food, no poor people are not to blame, nor is population the cause of this nonsense which has to end.
Hope the Embed works.
Edit; It did not, what am I doing wrong on Embedding?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aud6n52dJCY

While the current "crisis" of migrants in Europe is viewed as a detriment, It is not. That is the same nonsense we have heard for decades upon decades in the US.

Migrants will boost Europe's economy - Nov. 6, 2015

Clamping down on Immigration in the US hurt us badly, something I also had to change my mind on about 15 years ago, sigh.
Georgia's Harsh Immigration Law Costs Millions in Unharvested Crops - The Atlantic


I am curious how many Migrants are those of you in the EU actually Seeing?
A close friend in Slovania was up in arms over all this (usually a very level headed engineer, I know the two do not go hand in hand) but a few months later he has never seen a single refugee. How much is the usual Media bait and switch?

Am I the only one who finds the US's concern on immigrants highly ironic?

After all it is an nation of immigrants

TBH the same applies to a lot of western nations UK included.

The migrants are put everywhere where there is space, be it in empty government buildings, schools, rented accommodation etc. etc.
None in our +/- 5000 inhabitants village yet that I know of but there were talks about putting around 50 persons in a building next to a school. Great, so the migrant kids get to go there too ? No, they were planning to put 50 grown men in there. Girls have been attacked and raped by similar groups in a village in Holland not far from here.
I'm fine with migrants, worked with a good number of them personally and I can't think of a bad thing to say about them either ! People from Brazil, Portugal, Turkey, Morocco, Afghanistan etc.
All people eager to make an honest living for them and their family and as far as I'm concerned they are welcome to do so. Unfortunately there are companies who will hire them for lower wages than they'd pay a native. So what happens: The natives get upset as "they take our jobs!" a cry echoed by the right wing parties who blame everybody for everything but come up with propaganda and not a single solution in sight.

Anyway, on with the topic in hand !
Have read through this about Co2 and Permafrost
Melting Permafrost | Weather Underground

Yes and because no cheap flats are available for Germans in Germany anymore. The Government pays more for Immigrants then working single mothers or students can afford.

But to be fair, The German population is declining so immigrants are welcome as someone has to pay into the pension funds.
There are also more one-person households in Germany now than ever before which also takes up a lot of housing.
The economy is doing better than every other European nation so they'll have jobs, spend money, pay taxes which in turn pays off the houses that are now created for them.

Free speech and differences of opinion
 

More than once in this thread that perjorative, derogatory word has been used; I can't quite place when it first appeared in print anywhere else with regard to climate, separate from it's earlier, more established use for those who choose to exercise their right to free speech with regard to the holocaust.
However, see below for the way these things tend to go.

In Turkey, to this day, it is illegal in their law to discuss the genocide of the Armenians during WW1.
There is no difference.

Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

It's simple use of the English language.

Denier-noun
A person who denies something, especially someone who refuses to admit the truth of a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence:


Natural climate change is a fact (the area of debate is the level of mans influence on the process). Statements posted claiming the contrary would make the poster a denier


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The troops who faught at Rorke's Drift were, mainly, from the Royal Warwickshire Regt albeit they had recruited a goodly proportion of Welsh choristers to their ranks.

Later, as part of regt amalgamations and the like, the regt of Warwickshires became the South Wales Borderers; I suppose that was enough to justify the amount of singing in the movie of 1963. :D

Where?
The term is over used and rarely ever applies as the main argument of the supposed "Deniers" is simply man is not the primary effect as other factors are involved. Thus making it nonsense put forth to push a political agenda, nothing more.

Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

Another derogatory comment ;)

Please provide some evidence that natural climate change doesnt exist.


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Use of any language is far from simple, even if that is the honest intention on the part of some.

As for the "settled science" line of argument; it is just that = a line of argument, nay propoganda even, to be disseminated at each and every opportunity. Any self respecting scientist would consider this very idea to be utter tosh; an idol no less.
There are many who have demolished the settled science line in every facet; not least in the earlier references to blogs, particularly Ridleys', and websites.
I have to recognise that you do consistently stick to "natural" and steer away from the more controversial man-made version of the storyline.

So, junk science remains exactly that, junk, and those who perpetrate it could well be accused of denial of the search for truth, the end of the enlightened era and heralding the approach of a new dark ages.
A new "Spanish Inquisition" at the very least, while those in positions of power would rub their hands in glee.

Scientific understanding does and will change that is a fact and proven over and over again throughout history.

Throughout this post people seem to be confusing 3 separate issues

Natural Climatic Change - something that is established with significant scientific evidence

Outright denial of Climate Change of any type (climate change denial)

Skepticism - questioning current scientific, political and commercial arguments to make us more informed.

The deniers position that all the research and scientists are tied into to some huge conspiracy is simply ludicrous. It's just not the way the scientific world works

Unfortunately there are a lot of very eloquent people stood on their soapboxes shouting loudly and think that makes them an expert (not referring to anyone here) they range from nutters, journalists pseudo scientists. Most have little capability to back up their claims

Then you get the skeptics who will challenge politically funded research using science to ensure we are using fact to base our understanding of the issue.


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Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

It's easy to see why so many apparently deny the science, EXXON, Kosh Brothers, etc, spent untold millions on subversive propaganda campaigns - and only had to sell an idea that people already wanted to buy - that we don't have to change our lifestyles or reduce our impact on the physical world, we don't need to feel guilty because our actions don't really have consequences.

Even if we do collectively accept this, few are going to elect politicians whose manifesto is banning gas guzzling automobiles, or rationing red meat, etc and corporations are only motivated by short-term profit. I don't eat meat, it's the least I can do, but most people I meet won't change because 'it's tasty'.

In the States, the science of climate change became politicized, and like everything else, polarized. This has been disastrous really, with any concern for the planet being reduced to 'lefty crap' and anti-business.

Lastly, our media is owned and tightly ran by a small minority whose interests are very much in continuing the status quo, apparently at really any cost - plain old hubris or something more sinister?

To answer the OP, I think with climate change, resource wars and the serious knock on effects that will all have, ending RTW moto travel will be the least of our problems. Just the other day I read that globally we've got sixty years of arable top soil left. Sixty years! But as usual Al Qaeda 2.0 were dominating the hysterical media.

Have you ever worked with Scientists? They are fallible and subject to their own biased and bigotry which is unfortunately human nature.

Correct, on both sides of the Fence.
Most who tell me to read "Science" probably only listen to a blurb now and then on CNN or other nonsense type of programming and do not follow their own advice. It is merely a way of putting others down without having to back up their own statements.



Meat is how our brains were able to grow, why on earth would anyone quit eating it? Indeed we should research our consumption overall, and we should push for higher quality meat standards, that by no means is an excuse to go backwards in evolution.


BTW, how many of "Inconvenient truths" benchmarks have been made?

Yes I have thanks, often an interesting bunch but at least their work is based on fact and scientific process, unlike politicians and their own bias and bigotry rarely effects the work they do.

But have you actually read the science to confirm if its merely a way of putting others down without backing up their own statements or whether the science is correct?

lol ok.




But have you actually read the science to confirm if its merely a way of putting others down without backing up their own statements or whether the science is correct?[/QUOTE]

Again, I come from the other side, research taught me otherwise :)

Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

Your post is riddled with logical fallacy. Saying just because science is sometimes wrong, which by the way is the whole point of it, therefore the 90% plus consensus that the release of carbon is causing an unnatural and unprecedented warming of the earths atmosphere is wrong, is like saying just because it has rained often today it will rain tomorrow. Nonsense basically.

As for not eating meat, regardless how how our brains evolved trying to link it's original evolution, which by the way if you have any evidence please provide, something that occurred hundreds of thousands of years ago to what should reasonable be done today, is also a fallacy. For reasons why we can't afford to eat meat, see Cowspiracy.com

I'd agree with you that the media often misrepresents science and that most people don't have the time or knowledge to view peer to peer reviews scientific journals, they must rely on journalists who can, and that is often flawed due to poor journalism and because of clandestine propaganda campaigns by the big polluters.

For me, I don't know for sure what is happening in the world and I try to apply a few filters and review my sources the best I can, but what, you seriously think that globally, thousands of scientists from institutions like NASA and the U.N, are all wrong? But based on what? The difference seems to be they have evidence to prove what they think is the case, where you do not.

Possible solution to global warming for RTW
 

If we are entering an ice age that may slow us RTWs down a bit, but if it is global warming coming, no problem, *just tape ice cubes to your wrists, this will cool your blood and the cooled blood will journey to all parts of your body and brain.
Also, resting in a hammock and gently swinging the hammock tends to lower body temperature by keeping the body at rest as opposed to exercising, and because of the slight movement of air created by the swinging hammock. It helps if you can find an assistant to attach a rope to the hammock and swing you in the hammock thus allowing you to remain even stiller, and in between swings, your assistant might replace the melted ice taped to your wrists with fresh ice. Remember not moving is the key, just stay calm and don't worry.
*leaned many years ago in hot and humid Puerto Limón, Costa Rica while serving as a U S Peace Corps volunteer,

Or, not finding anyone willing to help out, which is often the case, just attach a rope to a nearby tree - a few feet to one side or other of the hammock and swing yourself so the outbound swing of the hammock puts you within reaching distance of your catch of ice, usually some kind of ice chest, and you can scoop ice in a cupped hand without too much movement and then gently replace the melted ice under the wet tape on your wrists with the fresh ice. 9 out of 10 scientists agree this process cools the body below ambient temperatures if the ambient temperature is above 98.6 F. The one dissenting scientist was old school and no one really took him seriously anyway.
Hope this helps.

xfiltrate eat, drink and stay kool

LOL so do you know otherwise, or someone TOLD YOU what to think?
BTW, what are the odds the weather report in your area is correct next week?

I am going to do something I rarely do, BWAAA HAAAAA
Sorry bro but I am literally laughing hard here. Meat has Vitamins, Minerals and fat which your brain and body need.
Some can be substituted by a vegetarian lifestyle as you still gain some of the fats you need via dairy, eggs etc. a vegan lifestyle is simply idiotic.
There are vitamin substitutes however extraction methods are often suspect.
Lots more on that topic I am not getting into, link below with others.
It also is to note that hunting is the worlds largest wildlife conservation movement. In america alone over 1.5 million deer are smacked down on Americas highways, so why not help cull the herd so to speak?
Good healthy meat, you get to see where your food comes from, donate to something positive and get to spend time outdoors :)
This is true


One more time.
Most of the supposed solutions are not new at all. Most are not only a waste of money but dangerous to the environment in their own regard.
Going balls out and throwing money around is what gets people into problems to begin with. We need to sit down, relax and figure out whats up.
I would ask you again, if Climate change is such a dire threat to the world, then why is the US consistently time and time again the main country taking measures nobody else is taking? Money, and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
Further again the west in general is allowing unprecedented amounts of pollution to come from factories it in a sense SPONSORS in third world countries is completely counteraction to the supposed panic state we are in.

Now again, I am very much against pollution in general, in a big way, I want my Children and their children to live in a happy content Eurphoria on Earth, which probably will never happen since Governments do indeed know how to control the weather. If you control the resources, you fully control the people. Period.

Links for your consideration.
How Has the Human Brain Evolved? - Scientific American

https://www.newscientist.com/article...-of-the-brain/
around 2 million years ago would have been essential for the expansion of the human brain, since meat is such a rich source of nutrients. A richer diet, in turn, would have opened the door to further brain growth.

https://www.aip.org/history/climate/RainMake.htm

Who Controls the Weather? - Businessweek

Moscow Testing Cloud Seeding; Promises Winter Without Snow | Meteorologynews.com

Links on Automobiles which helps you understand, hopefully why oil was chosen
History of cars: The story of automobiles from prehistory to today

The History of the Automobile - Gas Engines

Algae IMO is our only real solution to substitute oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxyvVkeW7Nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_HbQ5cWSk

Obfuscated science
 

The discourse has developed well, while following predicatable lines.
By "lines" I mean specific unifying themes that are to be promoted, if necessary over and over again - just one of the techniques that is taught nowadays, including to those in the media industry.
Sometimes this is also called the storybook (fairytales comes to mind) or the "lines to take" but the principle remains constant.

There are other techniques such as the strawman approach:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Look out for these as the thread arguments and counter-arguments continue.

Not just in the States.
These factors are common across much of the so called developed world.


If there is a general agreement in here by now (there will be some deniers of this!!!) that the global warming concept is not the wolf nearest the sledge of homo sapiens then it might be useful to try to identify what is that wolf.
For instance, the parlous state of the international methods of financial investment and fiscal control of individual nations is considered by some to be on the point of meltdown; even the chinese have belatedly woken up to the reality of their current condition.
This money system could implode well inside a 60 year timeline; some would argue that it is imploding now as an ongoing consequence of earlier financial crisis.

How many is of us sustainable?
 

I do believe that climate change is man influenced. Even if you do not I think this is the case. I think most of us can agree the climate is changing, weather patterns are changing and seem to be getting more extreme.

Also as a species how many of us can this world support? That is in a way that is acceptable to the many. After the world wars the difference between the have's and the have not's was far smaller, perhaps because of the guilt of the ruling elites to the many for their sacrifices? Now these memories ere fading and things are going backwards.

The top 1% now own 50% of everything! Also the the Population is getting bigger, much bigger and world resource is finite! So it seems a reasonable assumption that the vast majority will have to make to with less?

Could and should we manage our populations?

How can we decide what a fair system is to do this? Let a lone manage and enforce it?

I want to travel (by land) as I see a lot more of this world, rather than my air as I only ever get to experience the world in small bubbles about my landing points, never really joined up! Traveling more slowly on a bike is very efficient especially if it is not that bigger one! But the way things are going I see things sadly getting more polarised and therefore harder for us to explore the planet!

We will still be able to do it but the risks and obstacles will be more. I hope and believe it is still worth it though!

Lol, ok bro, in other words you got nuttin.

No, I wouldn't say that I got nothing.
I was simply saying that it assists in grasping points made by contributors, assessing the validity of proposals and the like if only to be able to understand how these techniques are in use today.

e.g.
I made this statement on the basis of https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
(the UK criminal courts have a term something like "beyond reasonable doubt" or words to that effect; the civil courts have a lower burden of proof).
Anyone can scroll through that whole list of fallacious techniques to see further ways in which arguments are made.
All of that is without any recourse to actually tampering with the results of experimentation, direct political interference in the practice of science or any of the other issues raised in this thread to date.

By the way, I have been reading your blog entries: not all of them by any means but some of the more recent.

More examples
 

It is quite possible, even likely, to come across examples of this:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

and this is very commonly employed during discourse:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

As I mentioned earlier, the use of language is complex and fraught which is why I much prefer to judge people and events etc on the basis of their actions and the outcomes of them; much as the scientific method come to think of it.

I like your posts bro, just messing with ya :)

I am slightly surprised that your theme here has not been taken up.
Leaving aside the pollution aspect (probably a given that it is a highly important, tangible and relatively easy factor to quantify) I have continued to read the earlier links supplied in this thread - it is noticeable that the "pro-posts" do not cite their sources. I guess that is the settled science syndrome at work.

"Today’s gentle warming, progressing much more slowly than expected, is also accompanied by generally improving conditions. Globally, droughts are declining very slightly. Storms are not increasing in frequency or intensity: this year has been one of the quietest hurricane seasons. Floods are worse in some places but usually because of land-use changes, not more rainfall. Death rates from floods, storms and droughts have plummeted and are now far lower than they were a century ago. Today, arid areas like western Australia or the Sahel region of Africa are getting generally greener, thanks to the effect of more carbon dioxide in the air, which makes plants grow faster and resist drought better"
That quote is drawn from Ridleys' blog of about a month ago.
i.e. it is as current as any other view.
Five articles on climate change | Matt Ridley

This summation paragraoh from the same source is also of interest.
"The 40,000 people meeting in Paris over the next ten days are committed to the view that the weather is certain to do something nasty towards the end of this century unless we cut emissions. In this they are out of line with scientists. A survey of the members of the American Meteorological Society in 2012 found that only 52% agree that climate change is mostly man-made, and as to its being very harmful if unchecked, only 34% of AMS members agree. The rest said they think it will be either not harmful or not very harmful."

I have read elsewhere that there is an absolute minimum amount of CO2 that must exist in the atmosphere or plant life will die because the chlorophyll fails to function correctly.
Logically, all animal life would cease after such an event, or is that a fallacious logic?

Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

Shrekonweels, the fact you just linked climate to weather just goes to show how scientifically illiterate you are - maybe all that red meat has gone to your head bro.

Oh brother, I linked articles to consider about possible intentional weather manipulation, which is a far cry from EVIL COMMON MAN EMITTING CO2
clearly you are lacking in vitamin storage upstairs lol.

Seriously do some reading, try some critical thinking and then possibly we can have a intelligent conversation, I look forward to it.

Following links from one to another, as one does, I came upon this as part of todays' reading:

"As some of you will already know, I am one of 7 US academics being investigated by US Representative Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ) who is the ranking member of the House of Representatives Committee on Environment and Natural Resources. Rep. Grijalva has sent a letter to the president of my university requesting a range of information, including my correspondence, the letter is here in PDF. Before continuing, let me make one point abundantly clear: I have no funding, declared or undeclared, with any fossil fuel company or interest. I never have. Representative Grijalva knows this too, because when I have testified before the US Congress, I have disclosed my funding and possible conflicts of interest. So I know with complete certainty that this investigation is a politically-motivated “witch hunt” designed to intimidate me (and others) and to smear my name.
For instance, the Congressman and his staff, along with compliant journalists, are busy characterizing me in public as a “climate skeptic” opposed to action on climate change. This of course is a lie. I have written a book calling for a carbon tax, I have publicly supported President Obama’s proposed EPA carbon regulations, and I have just published another book strongly defending the scientific assessment of the IPCC with respect to disasters and climate change. All of this is public record, so the smears against me must be an intentional effort to delegitimize my academic research"
Abstracted from:
https://theclimatefix.wordpress.com/

I am aware of other blogs which have closed down following Twitter-based campaigns and similar "witch hunts", but this guy has pulled out of the research all together albeit he has other interests and has not lost his livelihood.

I believe the onus is on the denier/skeptics to provide evidence contrary to the established scientific beliefs.................but we'll just end up posting swathes of links no one will read on both sides of the debate

http://climate.nasa.gov/system/conte...aph-080315.jpg
Source - NASA

http://climate.nasa.gov/system/conte...mp_anomaly.jpg
Gobal Temp Rise from 4 separate sources - NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, NOAA National Climatic Data Center, Met Office Hadley Centre/Climatic Research Unit and the Japanese Meteorological Agency

97% Of Published Climate Scientists agree that mankind is influencing climate change

Source - J. Cook, et al, "Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature," Environmental Research Letters Vol. 8 No. 2, (June 2013); DOI:10.1088/1748-9326/8/2/024024

Quotation from page 3: "Among abstracts that expressed a position on AGW [Anthropogenic, or human-cause, Global Warming], 97.1% endorsed the scientific consensus.

And of course we have the dangerous side of polls and statistics where 30% of US Republicans voted in favour of bombing Agrabah - a fictional city from Aladin ROTFLMAO

I have read most of the links that you have posted in here so far; skim read in some cases + your blog (I wonder if anyone else has read that).

There are no inconsistencies IMO and I have learnt a bit about your part of the world (Montana for those who haven't indulged themselves).
Thanks!

BTW I can control the weather! at least that's what my previous project manager stated when he dragged my into a meeting with HR following a months worth of rain in 12 hours August 2014- I no longer work there :D

I am reading posted links, but a couple of graphs shown in isolation do not amount to a readable document.
Within my link below you will quickly find an article about changes of mind among the scientific community + further commentary about the corruption of the data sets used for the temperature graphs - Piers Corbyn, the "amateur" weather forecaster, has also drawn attention to the phenomena of altered data to suit preconceived ideologies derived from computer based modelling that did not come up with the "right" predictions (it's in his website linked earlier).
JoNova
She is an Aussie so she doesn't mince about in her blog :thumbup1:

So, what did we find out after the initial question was asked ?
The world is changing like it has always done.
People argue, like they have always done.
The climate change will influence the ways of the adventure rider, albeit not in dramatic ways. (unless you didn't count on mud in a previously drought stricken area and you never learned riding in mud :lol2: It might make throwing mud at each other even easier though ! )

My last post will only remain true until the lady blogger makes a few more entries into her home page.

So, here are better links.
[url=http://joannenova.com.au/2015/12/10-reasons-we-know-global-warming-is-not-man-made-physics-prof-explains-his-switch-to-skepticism/]10 reasons that show global warming is not man-made. Physics Prof explains his switch to skepticism.
29 Dec 2015

http://joannenova.com.au/about/archives/

http://joannenova.com.au/about/index/

Not sure that a online blog has much if any scientific credibility compared to a peer reviewed scientific paper. I could post thousand of links to scientific papers but I doubt you even bother to open 50% let alone read digest and form an opinion from the contents.

"There are lies, damn lies and statistics"

Anyone who has studied statistics for even a brief second will know that with the correct application statistics can be used to confirm anything you like.

Of course the 3 % of published climate scientist who don't agree that mankind is having an influence on climate must be right. But so far non of the supporters of this view have posted anything to demonstrate this other than on line bloggers opinions


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Thank you, if you dig through my travels are there as well.


I agree, however the question asked in the future how will our travels be effected?
Well according to Gore and crew, they already should have been, islands should have been swallowed up whole already. Thus far none of this has happened, the Ocean continues to rise at roughly 3 inches a year which it has done for a very long time.

couple things regarding this.
One as noted by Walkabout the link is supposedly to emissions leading to climate change, at least that was initially the argument, now it has broadened substantially beyond that emissions in the US at least are lower than they have been.

Two, I honestly quit reading the temperature readings when I found out the readings were beings messed with. If readings were not according to what they were supposed to be, they were adjusted, that is flat out screwing numbers. Another reason I came to the other side!

I would however thank you for your post, I love a debate based on data to back it up, very much appreciated :)


With that said, I like the apocalypse nonsense, talk about adventure!
I wonder what the Visa requirements will be?
Attachment 16805

This is the Best Proof that God Exists (in My Opinion)

There's a blog that claims to prove that God exists, even quotes some science, the authors written a book as well so it must be true doh

The apocalypse fantasy adventure I imagine involves being Kevin Costner?

The trouble is, for everyone who imagines now great it would be to be Livingstone, there aren't the required 500 imaginistas willing to think of themselves hauling water on their heads. Every Napoleon fantacist requires a few hundred thousand willing to imagine standing in a fog of gunsmoke while ten thousand shot guns are fired randomly. We never imagine ourselves as the bloke in the red shirt no one knows stood next to Captain Kirk when it kicks off.

Andy

Dramatic? :eek3:
But it has been ... and WILL continue to be dramatic. We've already seen this throughout Latin America for decades. It only gets worse.

My experience may not be necessarily directly related to climate change but all kinds of events happened and WILL happen in future that will cause major disruptions for travelers. Climate Change will make these events more serious and more common ... and more dramatic.

I saw this during my short 7 years in the area. Massive mud slides and floods, bridges out, no water or power, major roads closed ... and ... no help!
Not for just a few days but sometimes MONTHS! Been there, seen it in person.

Man Made Climate change will most definitely worsen these events. They will likely (and are) be happening more frequently than ever before. Guaranteed.

Dramatic? Look around you ... and don't take your finger out of the dyke! :oops2:

But GO ... (go soon!) Do your trip the best you can! bier

Sticking your finger in a dyke can cause serious trouble or so I heard.. doh

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps1ltzvsdo.jpg

We will make that trip even if it's the last thing we do.

Did they quote the Higgs Boson as evidence? ?c?

It really looks very bleak! The Paris talks did more than nothing but a lot less than what's needed. The last time western civilization was faced with a urgent, real and existential threat the US answered it with the Manhattan Project, and we need another one for fossils fuels. Hard not to wonder now would nano-solar and geothermal technology world look if Bush et al had spent the trillion on research instead of smashing up Iraq?

Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

So you're saying they are false? Or do you believe NASA, et al along with those who carried out that research are wrong?


Evidence?


But are you disputing that the link between Co2 and climate change or the problems with computer modeling? In your mind could it be you are more likely to believe an amateur in Australia because it conforms with your worldview, more than agencies like the International Panel on Climate Change, the MET, NASA, etc? By the way that blog comes across as false, shrill, loaded and cherry picked, to say the least.

Oh ok, sbut third world countries poor infrastructure and design have nothing to do with the slides or inability to get back up and running. Nothing new we have been having dramatic shifts for some time, welcome to earth.
From the founder of the Weather channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr5O1HsTVgA

lol the International panel was a joke, others have came out against it. Further nobody has bothered to refute what stated about all those international countries NOT taking any actions about the supposed DIRE danger.

Will Climate Change Spell The End of RTW Motorcycle Travel?
 

See;

Argumentum ad lapidem

- dismissing a claim as absurd without demonstrating proof for its absurdity.

Appeal to authority

- where an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it (besides not even caring to disclose said authorities?)

- perfect example of an inductive fallacy (not to mention cherry picking) i.e. that unknown quantity of undisclosed nations allegedly took no action to mitigate consequences of climate change therefore climate change isn't real.

\

Edit: Truly, reasoning with you is impossible, especially when you make zero attempt in your life to learn anything objective at all.
Sad and entertaining.

The thread has moved along at a pace; barricades have been strengthened, positions reinforced, reinforcements summoned and minds increasingly closed.

A word about blogs:
They didn't exist a short few years ago - we were reliant on the Main Stream Media (MSM) and other printed matter + the spoken word.
The general tradition of dissemination of information consists of a top down approach, based on the existing establishment of the day - through recorded history this has been the case and until very recently that is how things have been done, whether it be the Iman preaching from the pulpit (mixed religions therein) to the illiterate congregation or whatever.
Now, remarkably, here we are discussing a subject on a worldwide basis, more or less in a single language (with occasional tower of babel misunderstandings).


I like blogs because they pull together views, of all kinds, and are a developing new outlet for discourse such as occurs in here, now and again.
Of course some blogs are better than others just as there are websites that are better than others.
Right enough, a reference to a blog requires an open mind to actuallly do some reading/research; it is all too easy to hang on to the status quo, accepted dogma in a semi-religious fervour which is the outcome of the settled science scenario so beloved of our lords and masters.
In summary blogs are a convenient means of accessing information in a bottom up manner - that does require the will to do so of course.

Now, there is an enormous publicity machine that lies behind the current infatuation with so-called climate change (CC).
The CC that conveniently changed it's name from Global Warming (GW) when the evidence started to indicate that GW is not occurring, or it is occurring to a very small degree which does not threaten the current world order.
Compound that with the increasing indications that the raw data has been corrupted.

I very much doubt that anyone in here is very well read on the subject matter or is directly involved in the issues in their everyday existance - no one has spoken up in here to say "I am your great saviour who is all knowing on this issue, trust in me" or words to that effect.
I certainly have not.

Just one more point on the settled science:
Last century, Einstein developed theories in physics that confounded the Newtonian laws that had served us well for a few hundred years. But, Newtons laws of motion do continue to serve us well in our day to day affairs especially in the world of engineering.
Now, current physics is developing theories which indicate that Einstein was less than correct just a few years ago.
But I am supposed to accept, according to some postings in here, that the science of CC is a done deal; no arguments will be brokered, it is unacceptable to dissent, plain wrong man! Accept the truth pill.
As I mentioned a few pages back; that is medieval thinking, at best, and it really does work out well for the top down dissemination of smoke screens that divert from the real issues that the powers would rather not address.

I also mentioned a few pages back about the wolf that is much nearer the homo sapiens sledge; that is a subject that I have been following much more closely than CC over the past couple of years, so apologies if I have not provided full disclosure of every single source that I have considered in the past with respect to this thread topic.
Do your own research I would say, and remember to consider what folks are doing rather than what they are simply saying during this El Nino year and in the future.