The wolf taking a sleigh ride
 

100 replies and about 1300 viewings of this thread probably indicates that it is about to go the way of most other threads, following the end of the Christmas festivities and the big return to gainful employment tomorrow.

Regarding the wolf nearest the sledge theme, for anyone even mildly interested, this one is on the sledge and has been for quite a while.

Ho ho ho and best for 2016.

Making the World Safe for Banksters: Syria in the Cross-hairs | WEB OF DEBT BLOG

Hopefully.

Move along now, there's nothing for anyone here
 

:D

Far be it from me to knock the pig on the head and slit it's throat - after all the thread belongs to MD, so he can do the honours.

Over the Christmas period I ditched Opera as a browser after having a few issues with it and moved on to use of ANO.
Thereby, I lost all of my earlier bookmarks/favourites; I realised that would happen because I couldn't find a way of exporting bookmarks out of Opera.
Anyway, my need now is to rebuild my reading material = obviously blogs for reasons stated above.

Net result:
Here's another one, derived from my earlier ref, especially pertinant to USA folks but good reading for anyone who wishes to understand the world in which they happen to travel.
:innocent:
Blog - Public Banking Institute

I contend that judicious choice of blog reading is a better education than any degree course on offer across the world.
?c?

Been reading this over a period of time and this post plus a few of the others do not mention anything about continuing to ride bikes in the future, most of the posts just mention opinions of others (links ) to what they believe no one knows anything about the future and what will happen.

You will have to make up your own mind, or not
 

Too true.
Being in the HUBB pub and it having been Christmas festivities until recently, it is about typical for this time of year.
Certainly, positions were taken up against all comers, just as occurs in real pubs but there has been no brawling in the bar.

We never really got to the point whereby a Mystic Meg character provides us with some % certainty concerning the future.
That's the beauty of all belief systems be they based on settled science or religion or some other ideology.

"May your God go with you" in 2016 as a well known, now deceased, British comedian used to say at the end of his programmes.

I still contend that one can learn a lot more of the ways of the world from online blogs than from any degree course on offer anywhere in the world.
(Hans Rosling is but one case in point - he has some views, based on his research, about degree level studies).

Yes one of my favourite commidains Dave Allen
Let's hope that 2016 will be a good one for all.

I disagree quite strongly. Yes, there is all sorts of information out there, far more so than is packed into any higher education program. A good BSc program should however focus very much on the way an individual deals with information.

I think the responses on this thread can be quite polarised. Many lines of argument and rather fewer sources have been called upon, but there are those who seem to argue a more reasoned and gracious argument and consider the credibility of sources of information, and those who tend more to pick sources based on how closely they match their own opinions and decry the views of others. I would be surprised if someone with a higher education in a field of science took the latter approach to their arguments.

An anthropological viewpoint
 

Here's another ------ology discussion on a range of issues that relate to your point, albeit the article deals with other, arguably related, more pressing issues.

Yet another wolf that is chewing at the skids of the sled?
https://aeon.co/essays/why-isis-has-...ing-revolution

Well as I don't own either a sled or a sledge I've got nothing to fear from wolves doh

Not entirely sure what you are trying to achieve with posting various blogs or perpetuating an ongoing debate in this thread

Just about last orders in the bar
 

The thread remains open and I haven't left the bar:D

+
That particular article addresses a number of issues raised earlier in this thread, including cross references to the National Socialist Party of Germany.

It is very much up to date being written after the recent incident in Paris, thereby dealing with some of the earlier postings about immigration.

When the bar does close, there is this thread also:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...n-2016-a-85019

Your second point first: for sure, there is an amount of polarisation but that is not new to the HUBB.

Academia, UK style:-


My contention harks back to an earlier post which very briefly touched on the issues of higher education in the UK; not that such issues lie solely in the higher branch but let's stick with that for now.


As is the case for many other areas of UK life, I contend that it has been commercialised beyond the acceptable.


Degrees are for sale; not to the highest bidder but to the 50% of the UK population who are targetted to attend a UK university.
i.e expected to take up higher education for some 2-3 years of their young lives in preference to any other form of activity. Yes, 2 year degrees can be awarded last time I looked.


Even the UK employers have said, in effect, that many UK degrees are “not fit for purpose”.
(they may not have used this particular terminology if only because it has legal implications).


On the supply side, it is not permitted to fail; an academic who recommends to an exam board to fail a student is, in effect, sent away to review things, set resit exams and come up with a more acceptable result.


On the downstream “output” side the more vocal, even thinking, ex-student graduates may even speak up and complain about the outcome, particularly in their personal case – the latter to the extent that they may go to law in order to have their individual result subject to judicial review. If they do not go that far then there are myriad student advisors and the like within the university system who can advise them about making internal appeals as a bureaucratic, non-legal review.
In short, the customer of the university can stand up for what they consider to be an equitable outcome for the money that they have put into their education; what they may learn from all of this is doubtful in my opinion.


I do post as a retiree from engineering and I do accept that my original contention was deliberately meant to generate some thought and further discussion by anyone who has an interest here in the pub.
As ever, your experiences and associated views can be quite different.
To be clear, I am not saying that education has no value: Hans Rosling explains this as well as anyone.
But, students have to want to learn and the product that they wish to study needs to be fit for purpose and that has not been the case for vast swathes of the UK for quite a few years, to my personal knowledge.
In a word, there is a lack of integrity in the UK system of higher education, certainly at the time I last experienced it close up and personally involved, just over 10 years ago.


Incidentally, but not off topic, the last link that I posted to a blog (the one written by a US anthropologist who also works at French and UK universities) makes some points that are related to this topic.

At the risk of contributing to a topic that has so far generated far more heat than light I certainly would agree that the UK tertiary education system has changed considerably between when I was a student in the early 70's and what my children are experiencing at the moment. It's not surprising really as such change, in the form of government encouraged liberalisation and expansion, has its roots back in the late 19thC so it's not a recent innovation.

I'm not convinced that the access bar to universities has been lowered but what has happened as a result of changes in the nature of employment is that the consequences of failure at A level are higher. Back in the days when only a few percent of secondary school pupils would make it to any university, never mind Oxbridge, there was plenty of employment available for lesser qualified individuals. Those that chose the academic route tended to be (for the most part) those most suited to it or desirous of the experience. Many of my contemporaries decided that it wasn't worth three years more penury and left for the world of work.

It's not surprising that many who previously would have left school content with "O" or "A" levels are now taking degrees as that's now regarded as an entry level qualification - and particularly so where the qualification is a BSc rather than a BA. It's also not surprising that when an substantial percentage of undergraduates are there out of necessity rather than intellectual curiosity or temperament that they will look to the small print when things go against them. In my recent experience though the universities are no pushover. My daughter had go before an academic review board when she wanted to change courses last year and when my son had a month off through illness he was told his options were repeat the year or leave - no catch up or concessions.

All bar two of our extended family (25 people) have needed undergraduate degrees or higher (or are currently doing them) to follow their chosen career paths. For the most part that's due to legislation now preventing previously acceptable "life experience" entry to their various professions or to ceilings of one form or another existing within industries for non graduates. Whatever the shortcomings of the education establishment in the UK (and a few other countries that we have direct experience of) it's the world we currently live in. No doubt it will continue to change in the face of criticism, government policy or economic developments but any one in their teens / 20's at the moment will have to work, for better or for worse, with what we have.

At the risk of contributing to a topic that has so far generated far more heat than light I certainly would agree that the UK tertiary education system has changed considerably between when I was a student in the early 70's and what my children are experiencing at the moment. It's not surprising really as such change, in the form of government encouraged liberalisation and expansion, has its roots back in the late 19thC so it's not a recent innovation.
Check.

I'm not convinced that the access bar to universities has been lowered but what has happened as a result of changes in the nature of employment is that the consequences of failure at A level are higher. Back in the days when only a few percent of secondary school pupils would make it to any university, never mind Oxbridge, there was plenty of employment available for lesser qualified individuals. Those that chose the academic route tended to be (for the most part) those most suited to it or desirous of the experience. Many of my contemporaries decided that it wasn't worth three years more penury and left for the world of work.
Moi also – I started a degree course at age 31.
However I didn't say that an access bar has been lowered but certainly widened, with first years of degree courses generally covering A level studies as a catch up stage – that was the case 10 years ago.
But, later, I was able to help an individual obtain a position as a nurse just before that vocation (that word is worth noting) was given over to those with degree level qualifications only – I know that she was a great nurse in all respects (or I would not have provided a reference for her), At that time she was dedicated to moving out of “flipping burgers in a burger bar”.
Now we have a lack of nurses and you won't hear many of them referring to the work as a vocation.
My niece has just achieved much the same form of transition in a different line of employment without a degree level qualification to her name. Her new employer saw some talent in her, arguably, and took a shine to her and gave her an opportunity to change over.

It's not surprising that many who previously would have left school content with "O" or "A" levels are now taking degrees as that's now regarded as an entry level qualification - and particularly so where the qualification is a BSc rather than a BA. It's also not surprising that when an substantial percentage of undergraduates are there out of necessity rather than intellectual curiosity or temperament that they will look to the small print when things go against them. In my recent experience though the universities are no pushover. My daughter had go before an academic review board when she wanted to change courses last year and when my son had a month off through illness he was told his options were repeat the year or leave - no catch up or concessions.
Nothing is too surprising; it has all become the norm. But neither does this mean that it is right.


The general case for changing courses used to be that a student could do that at any time during the first semester of the first year I.e during the first 12-13 weeks.
How long do they want to commit themselves?


Consider; the individual cases that you describe are favourable to the finances of the university.

All bar two of our extended family (25 people) have needed undergraduate degrees or higher (or are currently doing them) to follow their chosen career paths. For the most part that's due to legislation now preventing previously acceptable "life experience" entry to their various professions or to ceilings of one form or another existing within industries for non graduates. Whatever the shortcomings of the education establishment in the UK (and a few other countries that we have direct experience of) it's the world we currently live in. No doubt it will continue to change in the face of criticism, government policy or economic developments but any one in their teens / 20's at the moment will have to work, for better or for worse, with what we have.
The professions have been totally involved in developing things to where we are today and are just one more case of organisations with vested interests; but ask the employers what they want and a very different picture appears.
Incidentally, I resigned from my own professional body when I had arrived at the viewpoint that I have attempted to outline in the past few posts; they tried to tell me that this was not possible. You can guess my response.


Summary:
I used to teach HNC/HND level students who really did understand commitment to a career and the word vocation – but those courses are declining if not gone completely - I would have to check on that.


Ask the children about “vocation” and “commitment” and see what is forthcoming.

Warming is cool
 

It is the case that one blog doth not a summer make.
It is necessary to read into the JoNova blog in order to see the content; it is well enough organised to find the information.

Elsewhere, the debate is lively and continuing:
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...ata-tampering/

Quite frequently, the discussions appended to blogs continue to delve into the items under consideration in an informed manner.
Such discourse is very up to date in this bit of that website:
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...ering-in-2014/

Regarding NASA:
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...ience-at-nasa/

So, yes, there is dissent about the computer modelling; in both the potential for corruption of the raw data, and in the modelling itself - that latter feature has not been mentioned in here up to now, but it certainly has been elsewhere.

The very old computing adage, GIGO, comes to mind, but even that does not recognise that the electronic model in the computer brain has to have some level of credence.
Reference can be made to Steven Goddards' professional work in writing computer software for some input about this aspect.

Of course there is ongoing dissent about the alleged corrolation between CO2 and the potential for warming the planet; it will be a much poorer world when there is no dissent within science, as has been mentioned earlier.

A lot of this stuff (including much of the climate debate as far as I can see) seems to depend on which end of the telescope you're looking through. "Vocation" and "commitment" are two words that flag up warning signs whenever I see them written - much in the same way as "adventure" does in a motorcycle context.

"Vocation" when applied to nurses in particular implied a degree (!) of selfless devotion to helping people in time of illness, something done, because of low pay, to the detriment of their own quality of life. The implication being that if they were purely financially motivated they would have been able to find more profitable employment in a different industry and that their willingness to stick with nursing was due to an admirable set of personality factors - one's that the rest of us money grubbers should look upon with envy. From the nurse's perspective they just got little money for doing a tough and at times disagreeable job and there's only so far that public image will go in paying the bills.

I'm not surprised therefore that, for the most part, they welcomed the professionalisation of their world, even with the rites of passage exams and qualifications that came with it. One of the two non graduate family members I mentioned above entered nursing before the shutters came down and doesn't have a bad word (well, ok, a few) to say about the way things have gone.

"Vocation" seems to morph into "Profession" when money isn't in such short supply. Another four (shortly five) of the family group are doctors - 2 x GPs and 2 x consultants. I'm not sure I've ever heard "vocation" being used by any of them except perhaps in an ironic sense. "Commitment" yes, they're all committed to what they do but not to the extent that they'd continue to do it if the pay dropped to an unacceptable level. There is an expectation that the severity and length of the training they undergo together with the responsibility of the job deserves suitable remuneration.

Of course how you select people for university based education will always be a contentious issue and more so with the formalisation of the process resulting from a huge increase in student numbers. Admirable personality traits now count for nothing against A level grades and a number of people who would previously have been able to talk their way past a selection interview are now ineligible. The OU was meant to be a route they could follow but have you seen the price of their courses recently (it's why my history degree with them is on indefinite hold). In my daughter's case the review board was necessary as the course she wanted to change to required higher A level entry grades than her old one (or those she had) so concern was raised as to whether this was a back door route to bypassing the entry standards.

The term commitment (in an academic context anyway) seems to be changing its nature in recent years being more applied to the financial straights graduates find themselves in after finishing their courses rather than the mental effort required to do the work. The fact that student numbers have kept up in the face of such a penalty says a lot about how teens /20's view their prospects without a degree. Any misgivings that "industry" has about the quality of graduates or what they're taught can hardly be laid at the feet of students. They apply for what's available. I do seem to remember similar comments being made decades ago so it surprises me (or maybe it doesn't) that their requirements haven't been acted upon.

There is a lot more to be said about this but as this is supposed to be a bike site I ought to stick to comments about overhead underhangers and how the new AT2 is really a middle of the road CB750 for the bad back generation. Climate change and the demise of petrol driven vehicles will at least enable us to experience true adventure once more when we try to revisit old routes on electric bikes and find a 50 mile range doesn't go very far in the Sahara. :rofl:

Certainly we are singing from the same hymn sheet.

You will be interested to see how your relatives perform during the forthcoming strike of doctors in the NHS.
What did become of the professions' hypocratic oath? - a rhetorical question.

I used to be a course admissions tutor, for my sins, with absolute discretion about who entered the course; that wouldn't happen nowadays - a computer programme and an administrator will do that nowadays with no discretion or attention to anything other than the outputs of that programme.
I also spent an amount of time placing students with appropriate employers in industrial placements, including placing Brit students with German companies; the latter was a revelation, even 30 years ago.

When everyone has a degree then they are pretty much worth?

Meanwhile, here we are in the UK treating kids as adults while treating the adults as kids.


Back at the global warming bit of the pub:
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...dummies-again/

ps
Yes, I am aware of the OU charges; they are why my relatives are packing it in after their current studies and it is but one reason why blogs have added value.
There are free courses online nowadays, usually offered by USA based universities - I haven't got my head around why they do this, other than as a loss leader toward Masters courses (everyone has a first degree, absolutely everyone).

None of my relatives / wife are "junior" doctors so they won't be striking but they will be sympathising having seen what's being asked of them by the government. It is somewhat eyebrow raising (for me anyway) that things should have come to that with one of the traditional professions as I still have strong memories of the Red Robbo style of union muscle flexing strikes in the 1970's based around the threat of economic meltdown.

I worked in a research lab at that time and we saw ourselves as competent professional adults capable of working out for ourselves what our efforts were worth. The union reps that periodically came along to promote their "unity is strength" message and convince us to join were generally given a cool reception. The problem for the medical profession is that mostly they've only had one source of employment in the UK since the 1940's - the NHS. Little by little over the decades whatever independence they've had has been whittled away and now it's only through the court of public opinion that they have any bargaining ability. And that is a very two edged sword. It's been interesting to watch how the "debate" has played out in the media so far.

Re free courses, if you're talking about MOOCs, yes there's loads of them, and quite a few UK based ones via Open Learn (with somewhat galling irony a subsidiary of the OU). I've been doing about half a dozen a year for the last few years and the first of this year's, complete with around 1500 students, starts next week. Mostly they're self help and pitched at about the level of adult evening classes (most of which have now shut down in my area) but they lead nowhere so in some respects there's little point - other than giving doctoral students some experience as mediators.

You do three or four weeks and that's it. It's an evening activity for me when there's nothing on tv and it's too cold to work on any of my wrecks in the garage, but in my more cynical moments they seem more like bread and circuses for the semi literate, the thinking man's Facebook. In the absence of a UK HUBB meeting in 2016 maybe Grant could arrange one on overlanding. It'd need a suitably academic title - "19thC Romantic Conceits in Adventure Travel" should get them rolling in. We've already got a basis for the syllabus over in the discussion about what is adventure riding.

Young Bikers
 

This thread has been both interesting and informative. Solutions are what is needed and backofbeyond is on that track.

I am especially impressed by the posts of backofbeyond whom I have met personally. He and his group of three (bikers all) including an organic farmer who hosts students of organic farming at his farm, visited rosa del desierto and me at our ranch in Arizona. All were very bright, sincere and interesting people.

I endorse backofbeyond for I have met him and experienced his desire to make the world a better place - to fight the good fight. Humanity needs more backofbeyonds willing to risk everything for the good of others. He is the real deal.

My contribution to this thread is my photo of young bikers accompanied by rosa del desierto somewhere in South America. Young bikers because these represent the motivation and inspiration that is backofbeyond.

Fuggin'ell

The free-thinking intellect and eloquence of so many members on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

I'm gob-smacked (really, I am) .. and [erm] I guess, why shouldn't this be the case, bearing in mind how we all think-through and manage to get ourselves [independently] around this puzzlingly crazy, f**ked-up, and yet at the same time .. MOST BEAUTIFUL WORLD!

thanks fellas :yes:

Keith
.. down in deepest darkest Cornwall (@ 7.00pm and slightly p!ssed-up, already)

Checkmate: everything that you write resonates.

In particular, what you describe above is very much the same experience in academic work (and the anthropologist has a view about the whittling); it has been for a long time with the difference that academics have a poor public image and naff all public sympathy.

The doctors do have a very clear option to work overseas. Of course many do so, probably far more than there are Brit academics who go away to work, although that option has also figured in the careers of some.
Govns are fond of embracing globilisation, but only when it suits them.

I did use the verb "perform", not knowing how close to the coal face they are; indeed it will be of interest to see how such a cohesive, vocal, well organised and supported group fares.

The "Pimlico Plumber" was interviewed recently - the boss of that company that is.
For anyone with a qualification in the trade he offers about 40K per annum; his top earners are on about 85K per annum and a lot of them still come in from Poland. Basically he was one more UK employer with an issue about the outputs of the British system of education.

At the risk of over egging this particular conversational pudding I'd agree that medics can always take their skill set elsewhere - people, by and large, are the same biological entities wherever they're found, but in practice that's not going to happen. Out of the 13 doctors at my wife's practice 11 of them have strong family commitments and links to the area - such as children at local schools etc, so they're not going anywhere. And that's not even mentioning the relationships and responsibilities that build up with their patients. Not quite the same in hospital medicine but I'm sure the government knows the "churn" statistics for junior doctors.

Your point about academic freedom to move is interesting as our family group has 2.5 (:confused2:) academics. One (working in artificial intelligence) is now based abroad and the 0.5 (my son) went abroad to one country for his MsC and to another for his PhD (partly) because of economics. Interestingly (for me anyway) about a third of his peer group from school (the local comprehensive) have gone on to do doctorates, a percentage totally unimaginable to my generation. I very much doubt whether he'll be back in the UK any time soon (other than for holidays) but much of the ease with which they've been able to move has largely been due to the existence of the EU. Now there's a debate for the future.

I did have in mind the movement of academic staff to overseas posts, such as the anthropologist (I know I keep quoting this guy, but he is highly typical).
He has sinecures in the USA, France and the UK.

But, yes, the introduction of "going rate" higher education fees has led to students voting with their feet.
Similarly, individuals I know who work overseas go to, say, Thailand for medical treatment rather than return to the UK.
Conversely, there are plenty of UK nationals living within other countries of the EU who do come back here for, specifically, surgery.
"ERAMUS" was a scheme of exchange students with which I had some dealings; nowadays later generations can make those same moves through their own volition.

As I touched on earlier: when everyone has a first degree that particular form of qualification has less perceived value, irrespective of the true value.

Cited evidence
 

Well, todays' reading for me has included a further denouncement of the all embracing academic system - it appears in the final 1/3 of the link which I cite as evidence for the veracity of my earlier statements.
America Is Being Destroyed By Problems That Are Unaddressed -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org

The world is going to the dogs I'm telling you.
It's rather depressing.
So what do these "rich people" think I often wonder ?
How much money do you need to live a nice comfortable life ?
There are people "worth" Billions. What the F**k do you do with an amount of money like that ? "Invest it to make more!" Please don't make me laugh.
I'd love to take it up against those people to make a living with a few basic tools and your own hands. How can you even think to be proud of being succesfull as a money hoarder ? It's not even real, it's a number in a computer system !
Right, I'll get off my soapbox now :innocent:

People are the same, everywhere in the world
 

I feel your potential pessimism; I know that reaction when learning of something that perhaps had not been clearly in view previously - it is especially easy to become downhearted when that newly-found-view is very at odds with any earlier personal views, opinions etc etc held up to that time.
But, the overall net effect on me has been to want to know more, understand more if only to be better able to engage in discourse such as this.
Ultimately;
"you can fool all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".


To write a meaningful answer I would tend to be way :offtopic:from this thread, and within here we have already moved some distance along the road from climate change - personally, the latter is "OK" as an area of interest but (I think I mentioned earlier) my big concern for at least the last 3 years has been the economy, in the broadest of terms.
To me, that area of my personal research impacts on all manner of areas of study including, for instance, the psychology of humans and what drives people to behave in certain ways.
For instance, much research has shown that leaders of large corporations and the like display psychopathic symptoms.

And when you look at available information about "the economy", taking the broadest of views and discounting nothing, you can start to see recurring themes about how the world does it's business.

Another thread in the HUBB pub has been around for at least 4 years on this theme: I commend it to you and anyone else who might want to understand better how things are done in various places around the world.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...crisis-59853-8

It would help you immensely if you avoided some of the sights (blogs) you frequent for your information.
I was truly waiting for the Bundy battle cry at the end of Roberts blog.

How much money do you need to live a comfortable life? Probably more than most people have. I know very few people (that are not in their eighties anyway) that wouldn't be able to make use of more money - and that includes people that by most standards would seem to be very well off. I know a lot of people (ourselves included) who are paper millionaires (based on house valuations, pension funds etc) but who struggle to pay the gas bill. Everybody juggles their finances - mainly because people tend to live up to the limit of their income. Earn more, buy a bigger house etc. You have to go quite a long way up the scale before that relationship breaks down.

And it's almost expected that you'll do that. It's not that long ago we were being encouraged to spend every penny as our civic duty. One person I know who tried to "forward plan" (pensions, investments etc) his finances has just got divorced because his wife thought he was tight fisted. She wanted to spend now, he wanted to save now, spend later.

Some people might remember the Alan Clarke quote (a rich right wing UK 80's / 90's politician if you've never heard of him) along the lines that you're not rich if you're living off the interest from your capital, you need to be able to live on the interest from the interest (presumably said before 0.1% bank accounts).
By that definition I doubt whether there's more than a few thousand people in the UK who count as rich. Over the years I've met a few of the very rich in my professional capacity (richest was worth £8 billion (ish) 20yrs ago) and my brief observations of their lifestyles wasn't all that positive. There was something "living in a bubble" about it. I'd rather have less money and more freedom - although a "little" more than I have now would be nice. Still, there's always tonight's lottery draw. If I win the big one I'll finance the next trip for everyone who's contributed to this discussion! :rofl:

In that case I've got my fingers crossed for you :innocent::rofl:

I bought a house when I married my first wife. Got divorced after 9 years and always paid for every single thing that was ever asked for and more. Married again doh and was had for half I owned again (after paying for everything again) and because I'm a stubborn idiot I married a third time. This time to someone who got into biking and off-roading just like me and this year we'll put the house up for sale and be off on our merry way to North and South America end of this year or in 2017 when we'll be married for 10 years :thumbup1:
We share the same interests and have the same views on life and are each other's best friend. We like to help people and we don't need much in the way of material things.
In short: We're seeing where life is taking us being sat here and we don't like the direction so we've decided to jump ship and take the biggest risk we've ever thought of and I can hardly wait !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psmgemvfop.jpg

Puny mankind
 

In among all the hype and grief over the anthropogenic global warming debate it never quite seems right to me that folks oin this planet appear to consider themselves as something special; set aside from the birds and the other mammals etc that are crawling around on the earth.

Here is some evidence that we are, indeed, nothing special.
Global Warming: A closer look at the numbers

In short, if every human being was to disappear tomorrow, the world wouldn't notice, or give a damn.

However, for those who still follow the quasi-religion, it would be somewhat logical to campaign to cut emissions of water into the atmosphere; you know, that stuff you drink to keep you from dehydrating, and then sweat to remain cool.
Or, perhaps we need more H2O in the atmosphere to provide a balanced planet earth?
(news item: a place in Wales, UK has received rain every day for the past 81 days or thereabouts and is well on the way to setting some kind of UK record for "everyday" rainfall).

Ps
It's taken a couple of weeks and nine pages of postings in this thread to arrive at the subject of water vapour in the atmosphere.
Strange how that wee matter is so ignored in the big climate debate, especially in the top-down approach that emanates from the level of the UN.

Oh yes the world will exist without us nonsense which is as poorly thought out as the world will take care of itself insanity. Sorry you are here, you will have off spring as will they. It is your duty as the dominant intelligent species to be stewards of the planet. Regardless of ones belief in global warming or not we have a duty to mitigate our impact on the planet, which we can and should do.
What we should not do is leave a pile of waste for our offspring to deal with, if they indeed can.
So simple steps for all of us on both sides of the fence, recycle, conserve yet live, and always think of the impact for generations to come.

Simple.

Broadly, that's a given.
It must be about 10 days ago that we touched on the subject of pollution and the need to deal with that; back in my days, a key topic used to be lead in paints and lead in fuels.


I am a little bemused otherwise.
My last post drew attention to the small influence that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have compared with those of H2O.
Along the way it is recognised science that CO2 is essential to plant life photosynthesis, as is the presence of water of course.
CO2 Science

Some years ago the USA EPA was considering declaring water vapour to be a pollutant.
Endangerment and Cause or Contribute Findings for Greenhouse Gases under Section 202(a) of the Clean Air Act | Climate Change | US EPA
What became of that concept?

Just hanging out in the bar on a saturday night brings to mind another dastardly gas.

Methane: The Irrelevant Greenhouse Gas | Watts Up With That?

There is a lot of scientific bar talk in the linked discussion.

That was the week that was
 

Clearing up in the HUBB pub bar after another mid-winter saturday night session, I came upon some on-topic reading matter that is possibly published on a weekly basis:
http://www.sepp.org/twtwfiles/2016/TWTW%201-9-16.pdf

It has some interesting views concerning recent flooding events in the UK, US policy, the recent conference in Paris and a few other commentaries including the concensus of 97% of scientists.
Oh yes, and, the location of North Pole.

It's in pdf format, so it can lie around on the bar for anyone to read.
The owner is here:-
Which Way for Now

Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness :doh:

So you post another link to another online source.

The pdf in question blames the recent flooding in the UK entirely of the WFD stopping people dredging rivers................what about the exceptional levels of rainfall over the December period and the continued development in flood plains?

A natural river system does not require dredging to function, this is only needed when man kinds activity affects the natural process whether that be through intensive agricultural practices, constructing in the flood plains removing the natural ability to flood or our habit of constraining natural watercourses in artificial channels.

And just so we are clear the Water Environment (Water Framework Directive) (England & Wales) Regulations 2003 can be found here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0033242_en.pdf

Dredging does not appear in this legislation once

Broadly so, although I don't think the commentator in the link was completely blaming lack of dredging; the people of the Somerset levels were of that view a year ago however when there was no doubt that dredging of their local rivers had ceased for some years in order to protect or otherwise preserve or enhance the local wetlands for the use of wildlife (or words to that effect at that time).
The folk of Glenridding are also of a similar view concerning the shambles that their village became in December 15 - 3 times in one week I think it was.

Flood RE is the answer to the issue; coming into force in April of this year, it gets the current govn out of a hole and passes the problem over to all those who carry house insurance in the UK.
It does this via the simple expedient of imposing a tax on all household insurance so that flood insurance is provided by "Flood RE", still at a cost, to those who live on the flood plains. In effect, it provides insurance cover against the occurance of a racing certainty (3 times in one week?).
But, some flood insurance policies now carry an excess of £10K or 25% of the total bill per event; Flood RE may do similar (3 times per week?).
As I understand it this day, it does not apply to properties built after 2009 - connect with the OTOH below.

Many of our towns and cities were first located upon flood plains, and the confluences of rivers, many centuries ago for goodish reasons at that time, and haphazard development of them continued over many more centuries.
Arguably, they are no longer fit for purpose and should be relocated within this "crowded" island.
OTOH, those who choose to live next to a known flood hazard need to man up to their own responsibility for taking that personal decision.

?c? anyone?

The Somerset Levels are a different issue to this year flooding, they are a natural wetland/marsh system artificially drained to allow grazing and in more recent times arable crop production. The first attempts to drain the area was possibly in Roman times

Here a cessation of dredging did have an impact with flooding, but naturally it is an area of wetlands/marshes/peat bogs were the changed use by mankind has altered the natural situation.

Just one page of commentary and not an equation in sight
 

Canute – commended reading


Reading some of the other documents left lying in the late night detritus of the HUBB pub bar, among all the more usual Sunday MSM, I happened upon this more interesting discussion; the author rang a bell immediately with his description of the tale of King Canute.
Exactly the same storyline was fed to me as a child, especially the aspect that says he was the worst King ever and the evidence proffered of his antics on the beach.
As the article says, the Danish King Canute, who managed to rule most of England, was denigrated by his successors once he was safely dead and out of the way – that does sound much like modern methods of character assassination.


Quite a few centuries later a certain Will Shakespeare carried out a similar role on behalf of the Tudor dynasty in order to blacken the name of the Plantagenets, especially the last one who was also King of England for a while, Richard 3 (killed on the battlefield by those loyal to a certain Henry Tudor).


Modern Day Versions of King Canute Find It Difficult To Replace God.


Commended reading because there is a moral to the story, apart from the treachery of ancient Kingdoms.

Lead is a naturally occuring element, by using your same logic for c02 it was a mistake to mitigate it :nuke:
. While Plants need CO2, too much is bad, as is too little. SO lets explore this, what happens if there is too much Co2? Well wallstreet would love it as it causes plants to grow bigger, they do however lose their nutritional value as they do so. Think of it like this, plants also need water, too little water a plant dies, too much it can also die, depending on the type of plant mind you. https://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-plant-food.htm
Where in that link?

I am not sure what logic you think I am applying to CO2.

Lead.
Yes, not the first time I have mentioned this because it was a major issue here in the UK (and elsewhere of course) quite a few years ago; children taking in lead from a polluted atmosphere was clearly attributable to lead additives in fuel.
As a child I owned many toy soldiers made of 100% lead (and some kids made their own by use of moulds and melting down the solid to a liquid) and I would suspect that I put them in my mouth now and again. Again, in school we all had a stash of mercury, obtained from the chemistry lessons – a matchbox full of the stuff would be in my pocket; it could be traded for other attractive items, such as Nazi regalia from the recently finished WW2 including bayonets, brass shell cases, gunpowder etc
Damn, what a dangerous world it was when the kids of my youth were conceived.


I also mentioned it because I have seen in the news here about the current issue there is ongoing in Flint, Michigan.

CO2 Science website and plant/sea life.
I find this aspect pretty interesting by which I mean that it catches my attention more readily than the mass hysteria of the climate alarmists and their whole show business.


The single page linked below, written in 1998, deals with the effects of CO2 enhancement on plant development and gives a good summary of other aspects, including the matter of water in the atmosphere that has now just started to be mentioned in this discourse.
They, the CO2 science research group, do appear to have a well developed and extensive research programme into plant and sea life research..
CO2 Science


Ah, now there's the rub.
That is a hoax.
You have proven that someone is reading this!
More detail about the hoax is here;
Water Vapor The Next Demon Gas | The Resilient Earth

keepcalm

Somerset Levels:
The name says it really.


Agreed, the post-flooding event solution came, in part anyway, by dredging the rivers of that flooded area.

The locals had dredged the rivers for years under the auspicies of the local drainage boards, all disbanded in favour of a national body that knows best.

And, the flood effects were dealt with by means of pumping.
Once push came to the big shove, everyone had had their say and the media had waded up and down the drowned roads a few times, the Dutch hydraulic engineers were called in to assist in solving UK issues on the levels with the pumps.


Just as we now need French engineers to design our next nuclear power station, basically because it is so long since we last did anything of that nature that all the British expertise in nuclear technology has retired in the meantime.
C'est la vie.
Do what you are good at doing and buy in expertise for what you are not.


But, there again, the people of York have not heard the last of the failure of pumps on the rivers in that area last month.

Just can't get the staff nowadays!

Science Fiction or Science Fact
 

Settled Scientists in denial.


List of excuses for ‘The Pause’ in global warming | Watts Up With That?


Having settled on the hypothesis of settled science and now that the evidence is not stacking up to match the earlier prognoses we can find the book of excuses for why the ongoing measurements don't match the predictions; as per the link above.



This one is a classic from academia and ties in with my experiences of working alongside some of those who are engaged in "research":-
50) The observational data we have is inadequate, but we ignore uncertainty to publish anyway: [Carl Wunsch in an NYT Article]

“The central problem of climate science is to ask what you do and say when your data are, by almost any standard, inadequate? If I spend three years analyzing my data, and the only defensible inference is that “the data are inadequate to answer the question,” how do you publish? How do you get your grant renewed? A common answer is to distort the calculation of the uncertainty, or ignore it all together, and proclaim an exciting story that the New York Times will pick up…How many such stories have been withdrawn years later when enough adequate data became available?"

If you like, you are welcome to come play in the piles of Arsenic in my home area. Despite our parents warnings the arsenic sand was soft and fun to play in.
I later worked in it doing both reclamation and just doing dirt work as the concentrations are very high in certain areas not being reclaimed.
This was in large a major reason why I got out of the dirt work in this area, not worth it. But hey, it is natural right?


Tree rings show global temperatures where a bit higher during roman times, scholars suggest this was do to a lack in volcanic activity,,, now we should be cooling more as we are slowly moving away from the sun.

On with our tale...
Attachment 16946

Attachment 16947

anyone remember those kids at school who seemed to think the only way to win a debate was to shout louder than everyone else? seems we've got some in the pub atm :rofl:

Now there's something worth discussing- only a few weeks before the new season premier :)

Historically, we have had more than our share of heavy metal contamination in the UK, including that of lead, as I indicated earlier.
Now, all lead pipes have been removed from the water supply systems in the UK which is why the current events in Flint, Michigan caught my attention.
It is bemusing, to say the least, that in your country you still use pipes constructed of lead for the supply of water for human consumption.


My background is in the application of “settled science” knowledge, fully recognising that it is not the holy grail of, in this case, physics but it serves a function on a day to day basis.
I refer to Newtonian theory and its application to everyday engineering.


In my case, for a number of years, this engineering application was in the fields of water supply and the disposal of dirty water (what you guys sometimes refer to as grey water).
Consequently, BOD and COD calculations and similar maths based solutions to everyday problems were the bread and butter of my life, at that time – I have done other things also.


Like you I have learned a fair bit over many years about pollution, in my case from playing, as a kid, on bomb sites left from WW2 to being involved in designing and implementing engineered solutions.
Here in the UK, we have dealt with most of the issues of pollution; I am not saying that things are 100% hunky dory but we have made great strides in such things and I had a small part to play in that, over the past 40+ years.


It is because of this background that I can hold my current sceptical outlook toward some issues despite those who perpetrate the idea that their brand of “settled science” cannot be challenged – we have gone over that earlier in this thread and those who hold such views and belief systems will probably continue to do so; keep the faith no matter what, as the Jesuits were inclined toward (just as one example of the dogma approach).


I, on the other hand, continue to make a judgement on the basis of what occurs rather than what is said - “what is said” feeds into that of course and that is where the internet is a powerful tool for such personal research.


This continues to be a great thread exhibiting a wide range of information, views, facts, anecdotes and the like.

I watched the first couple of seasons and quit, did not seem to be going anyplace. Now it supposedly is interesting but the world is watching sooo I wont bother just because it no longer has just a cult following :thumbup1:

If you are not very well informed on the global warming nonsense, why I am not surprised you do not know much about this either.
Your own country still has a lead pipe problem, which really is not surprising considering how old many buildings and infrastructure really is in the EU, it is not on a major extent but then again, governments love to save money and point fingers elsewhere, dont they?
http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/consumers/ad...flets/lead.pdf
in 20 years of digging up and replacing old water line I have never encountered anything but steel water lines, and even once wood water line, that sucker was old :thumbup1:
We do not, nor have we in decades used lead pipes, believe it or not America actually has standards which ya'll end up basing much of your own environmental legislation off of.

Flint is classic of many American cities now, and yours to follow. As the global economy exports jobs and immediate pollution, which saves everyone money in one area, local governments run out of money as they lose their tax base and are now barely able to take care of potholes. Again, flints water problem its not indicative of all however we do need to address our problems, that means you as well, in order to advance as supposed intelligent human beings. I see little advancement where it matters.

so you were either a sanitarian or a sewer plant operator, nothing wrong with either as they are important jobs.

Says you......coming from one of the world's biggest polluters....US dropping Eco bombs on other countries now are they. Wind your neck in and shove your guilt up yer jacksie. See you are still talking down to people...believe I called you out on that several years ago....nothing changes then. :nono:

Interesting, if its true, a big huge yay :D
The Good News on Global Warming: We've Delayed the Next Ice Age - Bloomberg Business

Now I could accept differing opinions on Climate Change and environmental issue, but after that you and me are going to fight :nono: ::


Both involve managing crap, something we've seen quite a bit of in this thread;)

Crap is right! :thumbup1: Shrek gets his info from Koch bros paid "studies", studies designed to discredit real science. Hasn't fooled anyone paying attention, only right wing, pro corporate zealots.

I bet he's got Fox news on 24/7. You Brits/Aussies know Fox news, right? Rupert Murdoch owned/Roger Ailes managed? You must be so proud ... they've done such a nice job in the UK! :rofl:
Their motto is "Fair and Balanced"! :rofl:

Others are being tricked by little companies like Exon/Mobil, who are now being investigated by US Feds involving covering up facts they knew regards global warming going back to the 1970's. Gee, what a surprise. doh

It's clear (from their own employees and internal memos) they knew then what was happening (lots of documented studies) and saw clear patterns, had the data... and then set out to cover up facts, discredit legit science and use FEAR and bullshit to push forward their agenda. Have spent hundreds of millions to do this. Anyone surprised to see this?

I could post THOUSANDS of links refuting everything deniers posted here. All I would ask is read legit studies from established, accredited scientists, not crack pot right wing nut jobs we've got stinking up this thread.
keepcalm

Oh dear
 

There is quite a bit of hysteria in the pub bar tonight.

Fortunately, for those who live in India, China and Russia, their governments have pretty much said that they will be ignoring the mass climate alarm of western "civilisation".
Didn't Pres Obama say something similar before the non-binding conference in Paris?

You are not really reading anything I post up, are you?

You lost me when you mentioned you rode your Ninja sport bike on an ISDE qualifier. :rofl: Having actually RIDDEN an ISDE qualifier ... and having owned 5 Ninjas ... :help smilie: Well, not much changed from there. :rofl:

(I notice you didn't deny anything I said regards your sources for info! Fox news ... and of course Jo Momma/Church & State on ADV Rider!) bier

keepcalm this has what to do with the topic at hand?
People who own stacks of bikes impress me not in the slightest, I would state why but why bother?

Gee,ice discus[/quote] yea, the articles I posted up clearly came from faux news, you know the same company which posts skeptical science, live science, Forbes, bloomberg as well as the university studies I reference.
as I mentioned to another member in here earlier, you would do well to read something other than opinion nonsense. Perhaps you could try reading some actual studies yourself? It goes miles for having an adult conversation, and is far more pleasant than talking to chicken little.

Here's a thought from a self-educated scientist
 

http://www.famousscientists.org/fs/w...-faraday-1.jpgNature is our kindest friend and best critic in experimental science if we only allow her intimations to fall unbiased on our minds. Michael Faraday, 1791 – 1867

If governments collapse and the world goes to hell I would probably not travel by bike internationally anymore. Not saying it could not be done but it would not appeal to me. Travelling then would be more expedition style, light or heavy. If I "had to", I would go light and try to fit into the starving masses. Bad times for GS owners I guess.

Hmmmm ..... maybe you guys would find me scavenging the streets of Germany, riding my old GS500, toting leather jacket, machete and a sawn off shotgun ... plus my personal weed plantation right in my living room ...:oops2:

Hey SOW,

if you want to come on over to the Old Continent, I will give you a tour of the refugee camps in my AO. Our small town of 5000 currently houses 140 "refugees", with a new building for 90 persons in the works. Plus another 60 persons will be housed in an industrial building. Next small town: 120 fortuneseekers/refugees housed in two heated tents. The town I am working in currently houses about 300 persons and the list goes on and on.

I was told buying weed has gotten considerably easier since the Gambians arrived on the scene. But that must be a lie. They probably just like hanging out at the local schools to socialize ... but being black they certainly stick out like a sore thumb.

Germanys biggest problem is not the migrant issue. We have a huge problem with Angela Merkel and her ilk.

Wow? A wopping 140? how on earth do you cope?
it must be terribly stressful to have to look out your window and see people living in a "Camp" who lost everything after it was blown to shit.
Which is?

Wow, really surprised at this thread!

Predator guy, trust me, you can get cabin fever on any coast. Here's my place that I leave every year. This isn't me merely someone who visited. Everyone thinks they want to stay for WEEKS or MONTHS, but 3-4 days is average, all people can handle.

Regardless of whether there is climate change or not, the bigger problem imo is we've ****ed up big time. Anyone who's traveled over the decades can see huge differences all over the world. We suck! Garbage everywhere, and not just in 'other' countries. Rwanda banned plastic bags a few years ago. The WHOLE COUNTRY. America? Europe? Adventure travelers lives have already been affected. Hasten the day we ride an electric bike that feels WILD.
(rant over)

The point was that I was telling you that fortune seekers / "refugees" are everywhere to be seen.

They mostly did lose everything in the sense that they sold everything to pay people smugglers to bring them into the EU, especially after Angela opened the door into Germany. Against current law, BTW.

If it is of interest to you, Iraqi migrants are already flying back by the hundreds every day because Germany did not meet their expectations.

Why chancelorette Merkel is currently the most despised of woman in Germany you can find out yourself.

Hey Lorraine,

why not consider an electric moped? :biggrin::biggrin: In ten years unpaved roads will be sparse anyhow. :(

Is that what you call people who have lost everything, fortune seekers? LOL
Attachment 17041
That is what anyone with the IQ above cannon fodder would do, try to find safety in a country which has an economy. You know kind of like all those migrants who left Europe, trying to escape the endless war and poverty for America
You mean because you treated them so Paltry they realized their only chance at a future was going back, or is it because Iraq has one of the worlds fastest growing economies?


Might want to start reading some legitimate news sources and put down Mien Kampf, shame to see the rise of the Riech all over again.

I guess if the US had a crystal ball, they would not have rebuilt a society that had did so much evil, seeing as though the future looked to repeat.
Your welcome BTW

Wow, that is one big leap of imagination.

I have read Pete3's posts in here more or less since he came to the forum.
Never has he come across in the manner that you imagine.
Quite the contrary actually; much as other German nationals, he loves his country and has posted ride reports to that effect with some excellent photographs and description of his own locality along the way.

Even over the past 48 hours, Frau M has changed her tune mightily, no doubt because she is losing support in Germany.
Time will tell; there are elections coming and the German government is a coalition.

Certainly, there are immense differerences between refugees, migrants, asylum seekers and such terminologies.
There is a strong argument that any nation that allows the best qualiifed and educated of another nation to move on denudes the latter of virtually any possibility of rebuilding itself.
For example, the UK health service doesn't educate and train enough of it's own needs and so it poaches people from just about the whole of the rest of the world.

In addition, the arrival of some 1 Mn immigrants into a single country over such a short period of time, and continuing, is unprecedented.
Again, time will tell how this develops; no one has a clue at present.

ps
i before e doesn't work in the German language.

Hey Shrek and Warden, why don´t you guys relax and take a dump before you start posting on the HUBB? It would improve the quality of your contributions by a far margin.

Call me a Nazi, I don´t give a rat´s a**. You know nothing about me and obviously not one bit about contemporary Germany, too. I might come across as harsh and I agree. I have a fair imagination of what lies ahead for my children and their offspring.

Immigration of non-Europeans has not been a success story in this country, must be because old Adolf is still controlling our minds from this base on the moon. Oh wait, the way I see it, it has not been a success story in other European countries, either.

Hey, that´s probably not PC to say! Hey, and guess what? I freaking don´t care! :tt2:

Now if you would please excuse me. My feed are itching, must go goose stepping for a while.

Oh and SOW, the German guilt thing is getting really old. If you want to insult me, why don´t you come up with something innovative?

You might want to wind your neck in a little....................

I liked SOW's post because the current anti immigrant hysteria fuelled by the media is giving strength to the ultra right wing movement across the globe and that is not a good thing for anyone.

You posted moaning about 140 immigrant in you locality, well so what? these people are facing hardships worse than you or me have ever experienced and hopefully will never experience in our lifetimes.

Interesting stuff ... massive unplanned or forced migrations will have an affect on travelers too. Anyone up on the current numbers flooding out of Syria? In the millions by now I'd expect.

But to steer things more back on topic: Climate and RIDING ... I just received the online free Motorcycle Explorer Magazine, issue 9. Excellent publication, IMO.

Seems you've had some "unseasonal" rain lately in the UK and the editor has commented on it. Sort of relates to the topic here. Find editor Owen's opening article here (page two) :

https://www.joomag.com/magazine/moto...D%3D&ref=email

He said he hasn't seen rain like this "since he was a kid". Just a random rain storm? ... or more to it?

The Climate Change Cult
 

Climate Change Cult Alarmists

What we have seen in this great thread is

a, Skepticism of the subject matter
b. Skepticism of the politics involved in the subject matter
c. Non acceptance of the settled science theme (a theme that is utterly illogical in itself because, by definition, such a concept is not scientific)
d, Non acceptance of the theme of climate change – well no, actually, why shouldn't the climate change? After all, everything else in the universe changes, or was Charles Darwin in error?
e. Non acceptance of the current global warming theme; not proven beyond reasonable doubt for many reasons
f, Non acceptance of the specific that mankind is the cause of climate change
g. Plenty of use of fallacious lines of argument, which has been interesting in itself as a subset of psychology.
h, Skepticism of the positions taken up, against all comers, in any situation; what I referred to earlier as the “closed minds” syndrome.

In my case, I came to this subject as an agnostic on the totally of the matter. I did some reading at that time and then moved on to other wolves that are chewing at the runners fitted to the sledge of mankind.
Now I have continued to read articles about suchlike – not in a quasi-religious manner with my mind decided, one way or the other and as a blind act of faith, but to see what clear arguments are put forth. It follows that mere anecdotes are simply discounted (as an engineer by profession I have a healthy regard for the scientific process and the purposes to which it has been put since the age of the enlightenment).
However, my latest reading leads me to say that my agnosticism ends with the advocacy of CAGW; that is where the stink of politics really does stick in the craw.

In the instance of the global warming/cooling alarm there is plenty of publicity for that view expounded ad infinitum via many forms of media – sure,”that” makes me immediately suspicious, it flowing from the settled science school of (non) thinking.
By “that” I refer to the band-wagon politicians, scientists, place-people in society, commentators and presenters in a wide range of media, especially the MSM, who dive into their discourse with a preconceived theme, scarcely prepared to entertain the idea that they could just be wrong; frankly, during my working life, I have put up with far too many people of that brain washed ilk.
It is worth remembering than the ultra-brain washed UK meteorological office has recently lost it's contract with the BBC for weather forecasting because it has been repeatedly so wrong.
To summarise this: Ball
But, of course, it goes much further to the issues flagged up earlier: the persecution of those who dissent from the quasi-religious cult and its mantras.

For the other camp, there are various written papers, blogs, websites and the like which are just part of that picture in that they vary in quality (and quantity) so it is necessary to continue the personal research.
However, it might be that such outlets are growing in both number and quality and, over the life of the quasi-religion, increasing easier access to the WWW can only mean that the good science will eventually be revealed to debunk the junk settled science whatever it's nature.

The agnosticism reminds of the old joke:

Guy is approached in the street in Northern Ireland, and challenged to declare his allegiance:
“Are you a catholic or a protestant?”
“Neither” says the street walker, “I'm an agnostic”.

“Well, are yee a catholic agnostic or a proddie agnostic?”
(In some circumstances, it isn't possible to sit on the fence).

And here is a paper which makes some very interesting arguments on nearly all of the themes which have appeared in here up to now, with the exception of the odd anecdote or two and one or two other aspects not mentioned much to date.
Nor does it deal in any depth at all with the subject of how our sun affects our planet, but we can come back to that.
Fallacies about Global Warming | Originals

Viz:
1. Temperature records
2. Temperature trends and extrapolation
3. Acceptance of climate modelling results by judgement of the outputs of the models
4. Consensus among scientists is required, or even important
5. Dominance of scientific papers (at a point in time) is conclusive of the truth
6. Peer reviewed papers are accurate and true
7. The IPCC is a reliable authority and it's reports are both correct and widely endorsed by all scientists
8. It has been proven that human emissions of carbon dioxide have caused global warming

And, yes, they do have a blog!
The SPPI Blog

When you do not allow people to assimilate then they retract, as they do so distrust evolves. By essentially tossing migrants into prison camps and not allowing opportunity you are showing that you are exactly like radical Islam tells them, now what do you think happens from there?

America worked only as a melting pot because there was opportunity, had that opportunity to advance and live not been there, she would have self destructed immediately. With the rise of extremist groups UN America she still might.

Your horrible migrant crisis is what America faces every year, in fact yours is watered down like crazy in comparison.
Now with migrant clampdowns happening as low IQ radical right wingers come unhinged we face economic problems as a result. As they arrest or deport our crops rot, as they rot Tax dollars are lost, as they leave local stores suffer as they lose customers.
Those that stay stick with their own as they do not feel safe, that is where gangs come from, in fact that is how radical groups are born. If I again look at the dark past of Germany we know how bad mustache man came to power under the same basic ideals. I would hope a history lesson on this regard is not needed.

One you have two choices, you can walk to that camp and show some humanity, or you can poke the dog with a stick and see how long it is until that dog bites back.

Btw the US rebuilt Europe and forgave your debt so you could prosper, it worked wonderfully, had we not the problems never would have ended.

I think the entire Eu has taken in around two million refugees. While Lebanon, a country of just over 4 million has taken in over a million!

My wife struggles with why it is even a problem. She says we have so much unused uninhabited land how is it we cannot help more?
I guess when you grow up barely able to eat, you get it. When we grow up with full bellys we worry about someone else taking our snack.


Something you will be effected by more than climate change is ground shifts as empty voids from gas and oil being pumped out start to settle.
This is why the climate hysteria has screwed us, it has pulled our attention away from other, more important and immediate pressing issues at can and should be dealt with now.

It would have to be recognised that those circumstances were a "one off" situation at a particular time in the development of your new nation.
The 21st century is so very different.

It is not simple, quite the opposite, being related to the absolute essentials of how homo sapiens deal with each other.
It continues to be interesting to see how those of the USA view Europe – arguably, the most complex place on the planet, certainly on a continental scale and giving due cognisance to the sub-continent of the middle east.
Within the link below is a view of a particular northern European nation written by an Indian national; it is just one view, no one has to accept it, but the existence of that particular website is some indication of the history that lines up in peoples' minds.
You are being redirected...


Just recently on UK TV there has been a programme that explained the reverence that is held in the Islamic world for Baybars, almost as if he lived just a few years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baibars
Significantly, the man was a big influence in the cities of Syria that we hear of every day in current news.


On another hand, there is St George who is still commemorated in a wide range of countries, viz:
“St George is still venerated in a large number of places, by followers of particular occupations and sufferers from certain diseases. George is the patron saint of Aragon, Catalonia, Georgia, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, Germany and Greece; and of Moscow, Istanbul, Genoa and Venice (second to St Mark). He is patron of soldiers, cavalry and chivalry”
Abstract from St. George - England's Patron Saint
He is also the patron saint of England and his death on 23rd April is remembered each year.

That was very kind....considering we (Europe) gave birth to the US :D

Anyway I thought this was about Climate Change and not about 100's of thousands of young men of fighting age wanting to come in to Europe and cause problems, maybe the Mod's should move all the other stuff to a new thread

Wayne

why does everyone continue to call the US new? The French evolution followed ours. Further EU IS full of all kinds of new countries in the previous century. Its not like there were no people in the US pre Christian invasion.


:rofl: Since you like Fantasy,I shall put forth one of the best Fantasy books ever written which is historically actually fairly accurate, I strongly suggest you read it, you will learn much about the history of Civilization.
Robot Check
Curious, did you know that Persia, now IRan took several hundred thousand polish refugees during ww2?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpJvDQVX_Dc
Your link sucks btw.

what a coincidence since the west celebrates all kinds of figures which were brutal, you know Napoleon, Columbus, Alexander the Great etc
Non argument as usual on your part.

Edit: I usually toss people in the nonsense bin who say the Middleast is the war ravished problem of the world.
While I have no real problem with britain, it has invaded 90 percent of the world
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...per-cent-world

The US has been at war for 213 years of its short existence, you know liberating people for business purposes, much like Britain and some other western countries I should not need to mention.

Perhaps its time to look in the mirror.

I've only just finished reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Litt...y_of_the_World

The external view of the USA as being a new nation is because that is what it is.

The website may "suck" but the fact is that it exists.

Baybars is something of a hero to some people to this day.

Britain built an Empire, following in the footsteps of the Spanish and to some extent the French; the Dutch were doing the same.
All these nations were creatures of their times; each took on the role as their fortunes ebbed and flowed.
Now you guys have to live with the same responsibility.

keepcalm

Strictly speaking, you guys were late to WW2:oops2: so it's only fair you helped on the rebuild:clap:

Oh yes our patron saint from.................er Syria doh

I support the notion to move the immigration/refugee issue to a separate thread.:thumbup1:

Back to the topic of RTW travel post/while climate change.
Do you think this guy would stand out of the crowd?
Do you think this guy would find locals to help and protect him?

http://www.joaoleitao.com/wp-content...ara-desert.jpg

Warden, Warden ....
 

... Shrek is calling Walkabout a troll. You like Shreks post. For everybody who has followed Walkabouts posts this is a clear affront. He might enjoy a heated discussion but he never resorts to name calling and he always stays reasonable. Unlike me ....

A troll, huh?

For low IQ refugee hating blood drinking German Nazi bastards dreaming of the Forth Reich like me that sounds like you agree.

If you don´t, it would be time to speak up, man!

Just wondering ....
?c?

keepcalm

Initially that was all I was going to respond to your deliberate attempt to provoke a response (commonly defined as Trolling). I don't think I really need to explain myself to you or anyone else, but I thought I'd provide a reason, so there you go.

Meanwhile back at the planet
 

Will climate change spell the end of RTW?

No, between the hot water I am always in with the monitors of the Hubb
and this fix, the next ice age doesn't bother me at all.

xfiltrate

A combined heat and light plant is a step along from a combined heat and power plant.

The inculcation of ideologies
 

Mainly referencing back to the discourse about education from about 4 weeks ago, but this article and the accompanying comments also reflect on cultural influences on personal views, opinions and belief systems leading to the adoption of ideologies (such as climate change alarmism).

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/02...t-for-purpose/

Along the way the MSM, in the shape of Bloomberg in this particular case, are also in the spotlight of this article.

this thread is hilarious

tried and true designs?
Attachment 17058

Attachment 17059


Or modern?

Attachment 17060

Attachment 17061

Not versatile enough, I'd take ones of these
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ncWUXPfKTX.../riptide03.jpg

Anyways heres a link to a blog which takes the conversation away from the topic onto a new debate
The Pointless Blogger...: The World is Going Downhill...

More about St George
 

A turkish soldier is often the attribution.
Or Roman; I suppose it depends on who one listens too, much like the Climate Change business.

Apart from the earlier list of countries associated with St George, he is also commemorated annually in Mons, Belgium:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducasse_de_Mons

Well when you make crap up you can change it as you go, of course almost nobody would argue that he was indeed Syrian, read your link. He was also famous for slaying a Dragon:rofl:
To go along with mote made up nonsense Jesus was an Arab, born to a child who was knocked up by a 40 year old man who had left his wife. You know, the only time in history a teenage girl hung out with a man in his 40s got knocked up and the world believed her. If the villagers with an IQ of a modern 4 year old were not fooled with the god nonsense she would have been stoned to death, as presented by the Middleastern God, you know, the one you want everyone to worship, cept when Muslims call him god in Arabic, then he is evil.

So to recap, white men hate the same brown men that share the same entities for worship, jesus and god, because they are, well brown, look and talk different. Why is that? Well apparently they do not worship right, cause you know there is a specific way to worship imaginary made up crap.doh

I gotta go, the tooth fairy is at the door and looking hot.jeiger

:rofl:

heres a link which explains that jack frost was indeed a real person and decided whether children should get onions for tea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Bunny

We got off track, but hell, this has been fine, fine entertainment

Attachment 17062

Attachment 17063

Attachment 17064

In a search for the truth about climate change I've turned to the bible for the answer.

I was somewhat surprised to read about Jesus' fondness for Hondas
http://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/...-Honda-car.jpg

It seems that you guys have plenty of lead pipes and, as yet, you don't know where they are.
Flint mayor calls for immediate removal of lead pipes

Your UK reference of 6 years ago. aimed as general advice for the consumer, confirms that we banned the use of lead pipes here in the 1970s, just 25 years after the end of WW2.
Most use of lead pipes for water supply in the UK ended around 1944 but at that time we had been dismantling metals from all sorts of sources and putting them in to our war effort alongside 50 lend lease destroyers.

The situation for the UK, as at 2013, is summarised here:
http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/stakeholders...dance-lead.pdf
Read beyond the headlines and appendix 1 tells the tale about how the UK stacks up in comparison with the good people of Flint; the latter do appear to be let down greatly by their own politicians.
Quelle surpris.
I deduce that we have much to learn from the USA experience but those lessons are not to be emulated.

?c?:taz: doh

The UK has plenty of problems finding pipes etc in the ground, if you spent anytime in the construction industry you'd know how much time and money is wasted on incorrectly charted utilities and unknown ones. Even stuff laid 12 months ago get badly recorded

Appendix 1 doesn't actually compare the UK situation to Fint, it shows how many lead samples were taken by the uk water companies and how many failed the limits. Did you not read it?

As we're still playing this game, here's my link to an unrelated website
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyl_cat

Its a crime that the world politicians are not doing more to remove the terror of the polydactyl cat from our drinking water supplies. I demand action tomorrow:innocent:

There's a lot of racket in the bar today; I've just turned up the TV volume, we have a Calcutta cup to win :thumbup1:
Half time score is 6-7 and the flag of St George is flying high.

That expains it, too much focus on nonsense sports with what little reading you do being broken down to entertainment baseless opinion blogs.

Let's correct a few more things then I am done with this nonsense.

First The Roman Army was comprised of people from all over, much like the French foriegn legion. Smart armies always use shock troops which do not matter as sacrificial lambs before the elite troops set in. the elite troops then get the credit. "men die for pretty ribbons" Napoleon


Governments all over lie, while we all have the illusion of freedom in reality little has changed. For the most part elite wealthy families regardless of nation rule.

As warden pointed out your assertion that all water lines are tracked and replaced is nonsense at best. I was a contractor for almost two decades, tracking lines can be a nightmare. Regardless of how good a project sounds, there is still a budget and lot a of nonsense covered up with the common man non the wiser. If you think this is indicative only to America you are indeed a bigger fool than I ever anticipated. America is the distraction country for everyone else, so while you still have water problems your government makes sure to wave a hand and distract you, always works on fools which is why little ever really changes.

Last as I mentioned before your links suck, try reading from material which has a bibliography, then spend a little time making sure at least some of those references are correct. You would be surprised how often on the net references are nonsense or countersubject to the article at Hand.

Last I do not play the my country is better than yours nonsense, countries are little more than names placed upon imaginary lines with tax values applied.
There are differences of course however overall the general goal of mankind is essentially the same, fish, F@&$ and eat. I could give a crap less how a ruling party does, what I do care about is the betterment of the common man, a goal I though this site, comprised of world travelers shared, being a citizen of planet earth and all.

At anytime any of us could lose everything as historically societies since the spread of especially the white man (yes I am caucasion) have had little more than a handful of decades at best of peace. I would like to think that if something happened another place might welcome me as my ancestors were welcomed here.
I care about substance and not flash.

9-15, a fair result for a very open game.
The cross of St George overcame the Saltire of St Andrew, but I can't find a patron saint of the USA- not enough history.

England also has as patrons Edward the confessor and Edmund the martyr (thanks to the Danes for that one).

ps
Do keep an eye on our referendum, it's going to be interesting.

It would really help having a conversation if you had even a basic knowledge of history.

America was founded on the premise of religious freedom, thus why we had secular Ideas. Those ideas are guaranteed within our constitution so that no establishment may make a law regarding religion. Anyone who reads history knows how absolutely dark and macabre Christianity was, which is no surprise for anyone that has actually read the book in it's entirety thus why this clause was written. The bulk of early migrants to the united states were escaping religous persecution.

I really do not care about your referendum to be honest, it seems the bulk of your people are operating on emotion and bar stool patriotism similar to the US. I cannot imagine why things rarely get better.

You will be suffering from a surfeit of British black humour, the sort of thing that gets us through a lot of troubled times.
+ all the scratching of heads, jumping through hoops and leaping to conclusions is really quite wearing. :innocent:

I have worked, overseas, with many nationals of the USA and as individuals you are very fine fellows but come together in a group and you have very little sense of the absurb nature of the world.

ps
ref your last post, yep, I know that.
It is why you have a young country of course.
Some historians consider that your war of independance was a continuation of the English civil war, just in a different place.

pps
There is lots of chat in the bar tonight, but I have to get out of here and do some travel planning - the nights are getting shorter.
Superbowl tomorrow but it puts me to sleep!

People in glass houses !!!!!!
 

Great video. It encouraged me to write about my wifes transformation from Poverty in the Philippines to her introduction to my home here in Montana.
She was amazed at the toaster :P
Thoughts of the Ages: A young lady from abject poverty goes first world.

Here's the full length version of the homage to the washing machine and much else besides (from page 2 of this thread).