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I'm going to limit my comparison (below) to off-line use of phones or tablets (meaning, not having a continuous data connection via telephony), because that would be prohibitively expensive for international touring, and the need for a data connection would render the phone/tablet useless in areas not served by a 3G or 4G phone network. The proprietary cartographic database used by dedicated GPS navigators is, on average, about 600 MB in size for either North America or Europe. That implies considerable road attribute detail and numerous waypoints (fuel, hotel, etc.). I don't believe that the open source cartography contains the same road attribute detail as the proprietary cartography, in particular, details such as turn restrictions, time of day restrictions, and lane definition. If it did, we would be seeing the manufacturers of GPS navigators using open source cartography, rather than paying vendors such as Navteq or Nokia for their proprietary cartography. There's no easy way that I am aware of to compare the qualities of different cartographic databases, but comparing size of the database (for the same area) will provide a 'rough order of magnitude' comparison of the level of detail provided in each database. There is no doubt that the speed of the hardware (processors) provided in phones and tablets has increased dramatically in recent years, and it is this increase in processor speed that has enabled map display and some navigational guidance to be provided (offline) using phones and tablets. But, at the same time, the manufacturers of the dedicated GPS navigators have also taken advantage of increased processor speed and capabilities to enhance the guidance their products provide. Examples of this include lane guidance, photo-realistic display of overhead signs, and spoken street names. I think that a good analogy would be comparing cameras embedded in today's crop of phones and tablets to conventional cameras manufactured by companies such as Nikon, Canon, or Hasselblad. Phone cameras today take a remarkably good picture, and have come a long way from the fuzzy, marginally acceptable pictures of 10 years ago. But, if you want to take the best possible picture under the most demanding and varied conditions (this being the analogy to urban navigation), a 'dedicated' camera will give you better performance than a phone camera. The other side of the coin is that if you just need a photo to identify something, or to show to a friend, or to email to someone, then there's really no point in going out and spending all the money to buy a dedicated camera. Like I said in my first post, it's a question of "horses for courses". The task one wants to achieve should drive the decision of what navigation system to use. It's a fool's game to try and say one solution is better than another without first doing task analysis. Michael |
Not sure about you premise in detail comparison.
However, the course you're after seems to be way out of scope for most. I've already pointed out that lots odd people stop paying attention to signs etc. |
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Earlier this week, I finished a 10,000 km trip from Zurich to the Peloponnese and back, taking in all but one of the former Yugoslavian countries, all on pavement except for about 5 km. That 5 km was not intentional, believe me. :) A ST1100 is a lousy dirt bike. You and I pursue very different approaches to international touring, hence, it's not at all surprising that we choose different navigation solutions. Michael |
Mein gott!
Today's smatphone gps navigaton DOES not require to have data ,, wifi ,, 3g 4g or any g! These are stand alone dedicated navigation gps. All you need is an app, with map of your choice, which you simply download by clicking a button,, while on line via wifi or data network. FREE! You obviously do not need to connect to a PC by USB, to download any map ,, or go to OSM.org for the hassle of learning to tile their maps ,, nor pay garmin outrageous prices. Especially if you are a street cruiser! This is very good place to start... 62 million users and counting! https://www.sygic.com/en :smiliex: |
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The title of this thread, in total not paraphrased and as I understood it in "conversation" with seouljoe at that time, was to bring out the rapidly developing smart phone issues - hence, and just as one instance, I posted a couple of days ago about how dedicated trail riders in the UK are looking at using GPS to track/plan their riding. i.e. "offroad" not on the established highways. There has been some useful input in the past couple of days which relate to navigation across featureless terrain, whether it be at sea, in the air or across desert: useful because that input provides background information to the utility of GPS based navigation and how it is being used to provide increased levels of information to those driving tin-cans on 4 wheels. Such developments are also being made for (as just one instance) heavy truck drivers so that they have no excuses for becoming stuck under low bridges or jammed between the houses of historic streets in the UK or between the dry stone walls of the byways. But I believe the thread is supposed to be about using smart phones; peoples' experiences with the hardware (changing rapidly), the software (also changing rapidly) and the fixing of the kit to motorcycles (and perhaps other types of vehicles) in preference to the very heavy bias there has been within this forum to dedicated Satnav unts and garmin in particular (as someone else mentioned, at times the HUBB can appear to be a product placement forum for Garmin in particular). I certainly see no reason whatsoever to get on the back of the OP and suggest that the thread be locked or that he should disown it by not making his views known. I still use a really old second hand Garmin nuvi 205W and a tablet to navigate, but most of the time a few sticky notes on the screen suffice. |
Smart phones on the march
An incidental report of yesterday:
The Android OS now has 85% of the smart phone market. Apple takes another 11% which leaves the balance 4% for Blackberry et al to fight over. (I didn't pick up if this report relates to the UK market or worldwide). Who knows where this tech will be in, say, another 2 1/2 years (which is the time that has elapsed since seouljoe started this thread - so it really is all your fault Joe but no "the messenger should not be shot"). |
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One should read a book called War of Religion ,, written pre 9/11 ,, he predicted very exact thing ,, but then the war of religion has been going on since the 16th century. No , never shoot the messenger. bier |
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Enough vibration.. 1) 진동 ,,, Vibration Rest,, 2) Cruise ll 3) Seoul Joe Cruise ,, Meanwhile, Sygic,, turn by turn directions,, in 3D,, even in a smallest Russian villages. Stored music rocking my soul.. One smartphone. |
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But that's not to say I don't do trips in the mean time. I just don't update the blog with them. Like Joe and I were pointing out, the type of navigation that you seek is where it all started. Yes, the file size off the established competition also increased which could be explained as more detail. Not sure about that one, but how much detail you are after to warrant spending hundreds of dollars on a device and then again on the maps depends on the course you seek for your horse. Apps already have lane recognition, useful on big inter changes. But who aims for motorways on their route? Apps also do 3d maps (sygic I think, don't use it myself), but to me that's already too much detail. |
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I took a good look at the Sygic website today. Overall, I'm quite impressed with what their product appears to be able to do - provide route guidance with lane direction, provide traffic (though not by FM RDS, they use the cell network), identify speed limits on roads, support and use road attributes, and provide speed camera warnings. I have not downloaded the application (at $70 for world coverage, that's a bit too expensive to download strictly for 'try-out' purposes, although it is certainly a reasonable price for the application and cartography). So, I have a few questions for you, as I presume this is the application you use. 1) What about the 'waterproof' issue? Are any of the Android smartphones waterproof (for example, IPX-7 rated, as most motorcycle GPS navigators are)? I use an iPhone, I know it is not waterproof. If one puts the phone inside a waterproof case, is it still possible to control the navigation application via touch? 2) I note that Sygic states that their cartography comes with a lifetime licence for the Android platform. But, their application runs on both the Android and iPhone operating systems. Do you know what the cartography licence (and availability of free updates) is for the iPhone? I couldn't find that information on their website. 3) How much space does the cartography take up? My iPhone has 64 gb of storage (it is an iPhone 4S), of which about 30 GB could be made available for storing maps. Typically, there is a direct relationship between population of an area and map size for the same area. By way of example, how much space does it take to store all the cartography for South Korea (population 50 million, roughly the same as Germany)? 4) How does one cope with the cartography storage limits when moving from one country to another, or when traversing a large country such as the USA? Can zones of coverage be removed and added from the phone at will, using a Wi-Fi connection, or is computer support needed for storing all the cartography that won't fit on the phone? 5) I was a bit surprised to see that Sygic claims (on their Apple App Store website) to use the same cartography as Tom Tom. Is this commercial or open source software? I'm not familiar with Tom Tom cartography. Do you know who the major provider is, for example Navteq, Magellan, Nokia, OSM, etc.? 6) It appears that if one buys world coverage ($70) plus most of the bells and whistles offered as options (traffic notification, speed cameras, HUD, etc.), the full initial purchase cost will be about $100 to $130. Nothing wrong with that. But, how does this company generate ongoing revenue? Do they charge for application (software) updates? Or is it truly a 'pay once, use forever' service? 7) How is route planning carried out? Can it be done on a computer (rather than the phone)? My experience with route planning for aviation done on phones is that the phone is a lot more difficult (cumbersome) to use for route development and route planning than a traditional computer application, followed by transfer of the route to the phone. Based on my initial review of the product, conducted by only looking at their website and app store entries, it is attractive. The only significant negative I can see (aside from relying on the phone itself for processing power and speed) is that they don't offer comprehensive coverage of many lesser developed countries (e.g. the Balkans), only 'major transit routes'. Would appreciate whatever answers you can provide. Michael |
I can chime in on the gloves thing. Can't be of any help with Sygic sorry.
I've got an S4 which I use with an Ogio case. With mountain bike gloves here in Canadia, which are actually the same gloves I used riding trail bikes in Australia, I don't have any issues with the screen not responding. On the S4 you have to push into the case bevel a bit to get to the soft touch buttons as the case sits right on the edge of them, but Iphone's do have those. In winter when snow shoeing, skiing or snowboarding I haven't had any issues with the e-gloves or the thinner glove mitten liners. Possibly sometimes the thumb can be hit and miss with e-gloves which is probably due to me not touching it with the capacitive bit. Leather gloves may need some of that capacitive thread sewns in the tips, depending on the thickness. As a comparison, on the Garmin resistive touch screens it's hit in miss comparable to using a capacitive touch screen with a thicker glove. Thicker than what I've described. Personally, I think I'll stick to using my old S3 on my bike in a GPS for Less case because I take anecdotal failure evidence from Noel seriously enough to not want to go through the hassle of explaining my Mrs why I'm dealing with the phone company on getting an S5. |
tmotten:
Do you mean that you can enclose the phone in a waterproof case and still control the touchscreen satisfactorily using the various gloves you mentioned? The context I am thinking of here is a phone enclosed in a waterproof case mounted on a motorcycle (in the handlebar area, similar to where a dedicated GPS navigator would go). I'm not concerned about using physical buttons on the phone, because those are not used by the navigation application. Everything is done through the touchscreen. Michael |
Yep. Everything but foam lined or thick leather gloves. Actually, I was wrong about thinner glove mitten liners. They don't work neither. Too thick to conduct. My mountain bike gloves are Fox motocross gloves and they work fine. But there are plenty of guys that sew a bit of conducting tread in the finger and thumb tip as well.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Maki...-Touch-Screen/ http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-ha...screen-gloves/ You just actually motivated me to get some for my ski gloves. Maprika is an awesome app that tracks you across the resort map (not a plan view interpreted topo one but the ones they hand out). If you ski or board you should check it out. It's freaky but awesome. https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...=Maprika&hl=en |
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