Smart Phone VS Garmin et al as a GPS tool
 

I contend ,, that Garmin in the past ,, using out dated software,, shoddy workmanship on the units,,mediocre after service and greedy propriety exercise of maps,, have enjoyed many years of monopolistic share of the market. We beat them by using OSM,, now new challenge is on the horizon.

With the advent of the smart phones, which is indeed getting smarter,,,provides many choices of free maps and online resources at our finger tips, without connecting usbs or using their exclusive software ,, can enjoy ,, what is out there on open ,, free and available, for any one. Garmin in general
is becoming less in demand and their financials will hurt as time progresses.

On that note ,, I think as we,, a special breed of riders,, who travel the globe ,, shoud discuss in ernest the merits of the new technology vs old ,,

Software ,,
Hardware ,,
Pros and cons ,,
User experiences ,,
Service problems ,,
The cost ,,

I use and have used Garmin ,, but I am totally committed to Smart Phones.
So you know where I stand. ;)
Please feel free to offer us your insights.:palm:

Reason the Smart Phones Makes Sense as a GPS
 

One major reason is this Locus APP ,, tried many ,, this is the best IMHO

Locus

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#h...iw=925&bih=623

The choices of maps are truly mind blowing,, With SP,, you can actually go on a hike,, knowing that you have many many hours of battery life,, has GPS tracking ,, such as Latitute APP by Google,, where your loved ones will know ,, exactly where you are in the middle of the Sahara desert. If you don't move a ft for a day,, they will know you are in trouble.

With Galaxy Asia version ,, you can watch local TV for free and host of radio station ,, I usually listen to BBC news, when I am on the road. Or have family go to whereismydroid.com ,, register your SP ,, again exact location ,, even initiate a video from their end.

Durability,,, Can Garmin survive this?
Crash test iPhone 4S vs Samsung Galaxy S II - YouTube

Water Proof comes at 12 bucks
Amazon.com: iOttie Waterproof Skin Case Cover Pouch for Samsung AT&T Sprint Galaxy S2 Multi Purpose Protective Skin for Underwater Activity, Fishing, Ski, Snowboarding, Dustproof: Cell Phones & Accessories

Luxury Water Proof at 28 bucks
Amazon.com: Waterproof Tough Hard Phone Case for the Samsung Galaxy S2 i9100 SII European Version: Electronics

Another Water Proof 20 bucks
Samsung Galaxy S2 Waterproof Case - The Beachbuoy from Proporta

Very Sexy Water Proof
http://brandnewthings.com/

A few months ago I didn't know what the word app means!
 

I am eagerly standing on the sidelines of this thread to see what the collective wisdom is. i.e. I don't have a smart phone but these gadgets seem to be all pervasive.
I think your list, below, covers it for now at least because this technology is moving on so very fast.


I have looked back through this forum for approximately the past 12 months and there are very few threads that discuss smart phones.
Of those which do there has been only a small response, apart from this
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-gps-nav-57025
In there are one or two other recommended apps for the software side of things, and OSMAnd gets a few honourable mentions.

One point made in that earlier thread is that the mapping needs to be available offline; my guess is that all "good" mapping apps have this capability.

But, dumb question of the day, does a smart phone need to have online connectivity for its' GPS to be active?

ps to a moderator; this subject is worth being a sticky

Need to be online to use GPS?
 

Not a dumb question at all.
Nope ,, Nada ,, it is entirely separate from internet. Works just like Tom and Gar.

This is a really interesting thread - thanks for starting it.

For me it boils down to the right tool for the right job. The main difference between dedicated GPS units and Smartphones boil down to the underlying tech.

Smartphones will poll the satellite about once a second, dedicated units do it several times per second - this gives a significantly more accurate position amongst other things. Smartphones have batteries that are designed for phone calls etc, a dedicated GPS unit generally has a much longer battery life as it's designed to do just that.

Dedicated units can display maps from multiple sources - paid for and free - and can, via bluetooth, share and connect to a phone in order to share position and updates online via a GSM/GPRS connection. Smartphones can display maps from free and paid sources as well as online sources 'live' - such as google maps. But given the cost of data connectivity outside of your native country I'm not sure about the value of a 'live' map. Certainly an up to date map would be useful.

So for me - a dedicated unit, that is waterproof, hardy (my Garmin Zumo has bounced down the road at 70+ MPH several times and is fine - I dropped my iPhone from my desk onto a tiled floor and it smashed). So why would I want a smartphone, that requires lots of additional software (paid and free) and addition hardware (to make it waterproof)?

Incidentally Garmin are doing very very well at the moment - mainly because they understand that people want the right tool for the right job - there's units for motorbikes, cars, boats, walkers, skiers, airplanes..... all designed specifically to do the job.

I'll put my Garmin Zumo against any Smartphone any day - and it'll win on every score!

Uk smart phone in Europe?
 

Hi, sorry no answers just questions, i have never owned at sat nav and have only recently bought a smart phone (samsung galaxy ace). can i access my maps riding from UK to Morocco at no cost? i was considering the option of buying a Spanish sim card but i will also be in France, Portugal, Morocco and Italy.
Any advice appreciated. Andy

I've been reading into SeoulJoes' link, so I know the answer is Yes!
(Don't ask me how to do it though).
This is the locus link as it comes up for t the EU:-
Locus
Interesting capability is in there :thumbup1:

Hello Andy

Easiest, slick and free "app" for what your want is NavFree for crossing France / Spain / Portugal / Italy when in Morocco you can use Osmand both require no network to operate, but Osmand does require some effort to learn.

Have a look at the Motorola Defy -it's survived my better half for over a year now and that includes me driving over it and her ringing me when she's in the shower (don't ask why please).

UK to Morocco on Galaxy
 

Andy ,,
Go to app market now called Google Store ,, download Locus free version,, then go to google maps ,, save a driving directions under my map ,, then send your self an EM with the driving directions kml attachment and click download in your galaxy em program,, Locus will ask you whether you want to save ,, say yes ,, or in Locus ,, dat,, add ,,,tracks ,,, click my map ,, it will ask you to log into google em account and choose UK to Morocco under my maps ,, you can do this with way points/favourites.

Locus works off line ,, Simply open Locus ,, go to map ,,, download ,, select area ,, high light the area then click download ,, you now have truly offline map,, you can trekk remote corner of Himalaya with confidence now ,,

You have dozen choice of maps ,,

If you like Locus ,, to get more function ,, you pay 3 quid or 5 bucks for the pro version. (But not necessary for basic navigation)

Make sure to go to Harry's Bar in Casablaca ,,,like the movie,,, almost feels like the real thing,, Also golf is great all over Morocco. (Movie was not filmed at Casablanca but at a Hollywood lot)
Food bazzar at Marakeshi ,, amazing.

Amazing Offline Maps for Android
 

All formed ,, constant updates ,,
All free ,,
Google engined ,
Just go to market on your smart phone ,, search MAPDROYD (Use Y)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...droid.mapdroyd

MapDroyd
 

Hi, loading to my phone now. this is much simplier than i hoped and only possible with your help

Thanks Andy

So far, here we have a Motorola Defy and a Samsung Galaxy (not long ago this G word to this UK user was either a chocolate bar or something in outer space).
But, reading webpages tells me that there are loads of these gadgets on sale with lots of model names from a range of manufacturers - are there any others in use by HUBBers that can be recommended for travelling?


Matt,
+1, It is a most useful thread!

I am not sure how much accuracy is necessary; I used to be involved in surveying, yep, using GPS (to some extent when it was just becoming available), and that goes well beyond the requirements of navigation. As I understand things, the extra pings of the system will refine the precision achieved - not the same thing as accuracy.
Without precision, accuracy becomes an illusion, but navigators don't necessarily need high order accuracy in order to locate where abouts they are.

The availability of "dead" maps for smart phones seems to be mushrooming and I can see the attraction here.
Could Garmin (I pick on them because no one here seems to talk about Tom Tom et al, so far anyway) be running scared of this? My impression from reading this forum and a few other places is that their software is not friendly to the average end-user who just wants to get the result without playing about with the software.
Then, I assume the dead map version can be updated anytime the smart phone is near a free wifi outlet?

This thread evolved from another one specifically about Garmin and I have been put off, to some extent, by their marketing of GPS for such applications as navigation of golf courses. I surmise that Garmin have seen the threat from smart phones and have segmented their marketing to compete.

I still have an open mind about this and I am hoping for a load more feedback.

Well I've been using an Asus 550 (Vodaphone something or other) for 3 years now - it's my daily phone and has been all over North Africa. It has internet and GPS with a socket for external antenna. It's loaded with Tom Tom as well. Although it's getting a bit slow by comparison to the likes of Samsung Galaxies it has served me very well - the gps is faster than my garmin too.
I have a toughbook in the car that can even use the gps.
It's been dropped many times though she hasn't tried it in the shower.

I must confess to being tempted by the HTC Titan - 4.7" screen and 1.6gig processor running windows mobile 7:funmeteryes: . I have an aversion to Google, via android tracking my every move and then selling all that info on but that's for a different forum:nono:

That's a really good point there actually... when you're stationary it makes very little practical difference - but when you're moving - even at 40mph it makes a massive difference - especially when coming up to complicated road-layouts and the device understanding where you are on that system and importantly how high you are so it understands if you're going under something, over it, or just to the left of it.

Smartphones get around this like the old GPS units did by 'locking' the path to a defined road - when you leave that road, or you hit a complex layout or the signal drops to just 4 satellites then you get very confusing directions and quite often wrong directions as the device mis-understands where you are.

Signal is an important thing as well. Smartphones have single small antennae that are combined with their GPRS/GSM antennae - these have significantly lower gain than the dedicated GPS devices which have the tech required to capture as many sats as possible and move between them at speed. To deal with the speed issue your phone will use it's GSM connection to determine where you are based on near-by cell towers, but as soon as you turn that off (say because you're in another country and don't want the roaming costs) you'll notice how long it takes to find a signal - this is also an issue around high buildings and even mountain passes - where your smart phone may struggle, your GPS will work.

Garmin software is a bitch by the way - hate it - so hard to use and takes so long to learn. Tom Tom software is very very good and very easy to understand but doesn't allow as much flexibility in terms of using free maps and data.

Here's a review I did of the Tom Tom Rider

TomTom Rider Review | The London Biker

and here's a quick comparison I did with the Garmin and Tom Tom when the Zumo first came out..

Garmin Zumo – Initial Review | The London Biker

It's fair to say that over the last two years I've had the Zumo my opinion has changed.

I reckon if you can navigate a complex road network without a GPS and a paper map you probably won't be able to with a GPS.

Friends of mine use an iphone as a GPS when trail riding without to many difficulties. But off course it's not use for turn by turn navigation. Don't see a big need for this anyway. The old route highlighter on a paper map is a function that can be achieved on a smart phone.

I use a garmin myself because to date I haven't liked the case options, but have just gotten one which may work and plan to use backcountry navigator and androzic for overviews when I change a plan. Garmin for the detail.

Androzic allows for oziexplorer maps. This means you can scan in any paper map or download digital maps, georeference them in oziexplorer and load them in. No need for paper maps any more, mean less luggage and less worry about waterproofing.

Should be perfect for RTW I reckon. Screen are big enough now to work out a route without them. RTW doesn't need to much GPS accuracy. It's mostly open road anyway.

Downloading Options
 

Diversity of downloading offline maps and choices of maps are truly amazing. Heck ,, I don't even know at least 80% of the maps they are talking about ,,
Go here ,,, at the very top download Mobile Atlas Creator,,, read the help me files ,, select the area ,, then choose from some 20+ map formats ,,


Download Mobile Atlas Creator from SourceForge.net

Choose your maps ,, tiles ,, details ,, and create your own map... Click offline map in the setting in your map program ,, copy the map file from MAC ,, place it under Locus/map or any other map program you might be using ,,, before using,,, under setting click offline map.

It will take getting used to ,, experiment with it ,,, but ,, ah,, free maps,,,, great software ,, fun doing it ,, making your own map.

Now for online ,, when you travel ,, ask your carrier for the MONTHLY unlimited flat rate data plan,, which can be used all over the world ,, SK Telecom, in Korea provides 10 USD a day plan,, so you folks must have it in EEC and USA as well.
300 bucks a month ,, for internet,, EM ,,, etc ,,

Also if you go to APP store,, download free Kakao Talk ,, this allows you free chat ,, free sms ,, you can send large photo and video files to those with same ,, All free, as long as you are online.

For those coming to the UK and probably similar for other european countries with Orange coverage -
Orange pay as you go Dolphin package in the UK is only £10 month, no contract, no fee 100mb data 400 free texts. Available on line or at any Orange High street shop

Locus easiest offline map download
 

Just click ,, how,, vector maps , choose your region ,, unzip ,, move it to your Locus directory ,, takes five minutes.
http://www.vectormaps4locus.eu/

April Launch for 2012 London Olympics?
 

Samsung Galaxy S3 – Galaxy S III will have 12mp camera, 2GB ram and more

• 0G

Galaxy S3

Well leaked information on the highly anticipated brother of the Samsung Galaxy S II, the Samsung Galaxy S3 will compete against the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 next year. The Samsung Galaxy S III will heavily challenge Apple’s handsets, as the Galaxy SII did well against the iPhone 4 resulting in multiple lawsuits back and forth between the 2 big companies, Apple and Samsung. With the recent release of the Samsung Galaxy Nexus and the hype that comes with every Google phone it makes for the Galaxy S III to have a hard time getting popular.
Samsung Galaxy S3 screen

The Samsung Galaxy S3 will sport a huge 4.6 inch screen bigger than the 4.3 inch screen of the Galaxy S II. Samsung accidently leaked that it would release phones in 2012 with the new flexible glass specifically; FOLED technology. This would make for an interesting concept coupled with the rumored 4.6 inch screen and 1280×720 resolution of the Galaxy S III. Reasons why Samsung have chosen to use the OLED/FOLED screen technology is it uses less power and it also allows for the screen to be curved which is something new.
Samsung Galaxy S III and Android

The Samsung Galaxy S III will obviously run Google’s Android Ice Cream Sandwich, which featured a big database (but not bigger than Apple’s) of applications and games to download. Despite the Android market not having as much applications as the Apple market the Operating system is open source meaning there will be way more customization allowable.



Samsung Galaxy S3 camera

The Galaxy S3 will likely to have a whopping 12 MP camera (MP is merely one factor out of a dozen) which surpasses the Galaxy S2′s 8MP rear facing camera. But Samsung is going to do something innovative — it looks as if the Samsung Galaxy S3 will have a 1/2.3-inch sensor. That’s much bigger than the 1/3.2-inch CMOS chip found in many phones, including the iPhone 4S. To give you an idea of how that can impact image quality, check out another device using a 1/2.3-inch chip: the ultra-stylish £500 Pentax Q system camera.
Galaxy S3 features

Here is a summary of the features which are rumored to be available on the Samsung Galaxy S3 via CNET

• 4.6-inch Super AMOLED Plus screen at 1,280×720-pixel resolution
• 1.8GHz chip with 2GB RAM for zippy multitasking and games
• Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich with a refreshed TouchWiz skin
• Camera-quality 12-megapixel photos
• Styled like the Galaxy Nexus

And here’s what we’re hoping for:

• A flexible OLED screen on a jaw-dropping curved chassis
• TouchWiz mini apps that put social networking front and centre
• Ultra-high ISO photography so we don’t even need to use the sickly built-in LED flash

Conclusion on the Smart Phone Navigation !
 

Having discussed here ,, meant ,, I had better know what I was talking about.
After a careful due diligence ,, I have come to the following conclusion.

Android phone is best,, since most of the software for navigation is in the Windows / Google format.

Best free navi APP is Locus for both online and offline.

Offline ,, again best is the vectormap/locus.eu ,, that gives you navigation function, for ease of installing and using.

Best offline map to use ,, is mapdroyd APP ,, it covers the whole world , but it will lack some finer city details.

When installing the vectormap ,, the tiles are per each country. Russia, however has regional tiles, which means not knowing where you can be a hassle to select the right map,, for this below , a chart of Russian region ,,, send your self an attached EM with this chart and look it up in your phone,, to see which region it is ,

Thanks for all your research Joe. You might have enough convincing arguments for be to go over to Andriod afterall.

I recently stumbled across this app that is based around the soviet military maps. For the people that head out in the backcountry a lot this is particularly interesting as often they are the only decent map types out there.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ovietmaps.free

Besides this I find that most of these maps are as good as each other. My map on an iphone is having difficulties, which makes me glad I stuck with the android platform.

Hearing that a Zumo can tumble down the road and be OK is good news.

Personally I think any phone is built to be fairly tough, particularly basic Nokias, but that must be compromised by both the need to be pocketable, and the fact they don't really want one lasting for 5 years plus. If your phone breaks, well, thats why they sell you insurance, and you can pop to the high street to buy the latest whizz bang smartphone in your next break between meetings.:blushing:

I would hope something "designed" to go on a bike's handlebars will be tougher than that! A 5" screen phone thats only a few mm thick won't stand much flexing, and I've had one touchscreen phone that got a small crack despite being in its supplied case in my pocket that rendered it useless :( In fact, maybe the very fact that a stand alone gps isn't carried round as a phone makes it less open to being damaged?

I'd totally agree with the need for a speedy "high sensitivity receiver" unit too. Stationary, and able to stop at a junction of doubt then maybe not. Otherwise, throw in a few trees or tall buildings with heavy traffic and your blood pressure will rise if it won't keep up with what you're doing! How good a smart phone is in that respect though I don't know though?

Can you for instance download all of the UK, France, Spain and Morocco road maps to a smart phone, as well as having Olaf ready to go on arrival? An old Garmin I had you needed to select only map tiles that covered your route which was really annoying, and I don't want to do that again!

As for not needing a paper map? Good gracious me, surely not?!? ;)

Hey Joe,

I'm not sure you've actually hit the nail on the head here - you appear to have ignored everything people have said about dedicated units, I'm beginning to suspect you'd made your mind up before starting this thread..... in fact a quick look back through your posts indicates a certain, um, dislike, of Garmin...

I've had a really good play with the apps and maps you have suggested. Many of them are very good, despite quite a lot of the data being from dubious sources that are quite out of date.

I've played with the apps on my Android phones (all HTC I'm afraid so wasn't able to test on the Samsung jobs) and they certainly work well. The software is complex and difficult to understand - but then again - so is the Garmin set.

A quick experiment with the phones on my bike though demonstrates several things.

1 - If I don't do something to protect my phone it's not going to last long
2 - It takes too long to set up and the data bill will bankrupt me outside the UK
3 - At speed (25mph plus) it doesn't track well
4 - The battery went from a normal use-time of 4 hours to 30 mins using the GPS all the time....

In my mind that makes the smartphone unsuitable for the job unless:

1 - You go buy and custom fit a waterproof, shockproof holder for your phone
2 - You permanently wire in your phone (which damages the phones battery)
3 - You don't stress about turn by turn directions in an unfamiliar city

As ever - YMMV - but I will certainly not be dumping my Garmin Zumo for a smartphone any time soon - not even for my trusty iPhone with Tom Tom software.

Maps first, Garmin second, phone for emergencies - seems sensible to me!

There is one argument that does stand up... cost. The Garmin Zumo is currently retailing at $649 / £400 (https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=15000&ra=true) but you can get a decent Android handset free with a contract or for about £100/£150 without. A good waterproof / shockproof case is about £50 (cheaper are available but not as good) and the cost of wiring the phone in / buying a spare battery is minimal.

So for me it boils down to one of the oldest arguments in the trademans handbook.... buy a cheap tool that just about does the job or buy the proper tool that does the job very well.

grizzly7
 

mattcbf600
 

Hello Matt ,,
I hear you ,, My gripe with Garmin is well documented here,, at same time ,, angst ridden tight wad I am,, I also carry a Garmin ,,

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...in-gps-62780-2

My personal issue with Garmin is their marketing of the units, in Korea. On purpose ,, they delete Korean keyboards from all Garmins sold overseas ,, therefor,, they charge ,, USD 1,400 for your Zumo here ,,
Another issue is when it breaks,, they must be sent to Taiwan ,, their H/O ,, repair cost plus USD 90 for the DHL .
Lastly,, you your self have said , that their software sucks. Maps expensive.
I have been using Garmin here in Korea ,, through hills and mountains ,, my Garmin battery goes dead in 20 minutes ,, Always recalculating the routes,, recalculating,, My Galaxy s2 with GPS and 3G on ,,,always on target,, battery lasts 8 hours ,, and I have the music ,, some 3,000 songs. This is both unplugged of course.
I pay USD 48 a month for UNLIMITED 3G data here, in Korea ,, and when I travel the world,, USD 10 a day again UNLIMITED.

I use Ram box mount usually I have my Android around my neck in my bosom ;)
See the picks here ,,
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...in-gps-62780-2

Locus ,, will update your map ,, every other day ,, their Vector maps (Basically an OSM map , ,I am sure you are suing it too in your Garmin) ,, I think two months ,,
Some one sad ,, brilliantly ,, we are using this for RTW ,, not to run down the grocery store. Straight line he said.

Again ,, I hear you ,, get a cheap Garmin ,, stick it on your handle bar ,,, smart phone for all encompassing ,,, multifunction ,,,, in your underwear,,I also carry a small notebook,, only because I have to do online banking and download pictures.

Bottom line ,, Smart phones offer far more choices ,, at free cost of the software ,, free internet via wi-fi ,, free messaging,,, learning Russian on it now ,, got instant voice translator of some dozen languages "Talk to Me",, currency converter ,, skype for free phone calls ,, Viber also works ,, love the Kakao Talk for chatting and sending large files ,, camera that matches normal digital camera ,, even got it's own mini tripod,, several EM programs,,,can watch CNN ,, BBC,,,, Listen to the TED speeches "TED air" ,,,keep track of the finances ,, "Global Stock Market" ,, world weather ,, time ,, not just a lip service like Garmin.
I can back up all the files ,, I pay USD 1.8 per month for the insurance,, for two year coverage in case of theft,, breakage ,, or loss,, I get a new one.

Now ,, for some one at a cross road of buying new ,, Garmin or Smart Phone ,,
Go for the Android ,, I say ,, like you said ,, for 150 quid ,, with a two year plan and insurance.

tmotten
 

Truly remarkable details in that program ,, I was impressed ,,

:-)
 

Hi Joe,
"Told you!" - I had a hunch this subject would bring out a load of high quality information and views. :thumbup1:

The soviet maps source is, in fact, the sponsor of this forum - therefore the link is showing up at the top of this page.

I am still reading, and watching, intently.
There's no rush for me. :thumbup1:

Walkabout
 

Hey ,,,it was a very good idea for you to suggest to start this thread,,

Discussions interesting and very proactive....

Look at the Galaxy s3, when it comes out ,, I am dying to get my hands on it ,,
Saw the Galaxy Note ,, lots of nice functions ,, just too damn big.

my money
 

There is NOTHING that comes close to a ruggedised dedicated GPS unit for durability.

There is no trip I have done to date where a smart phone could have done the job ... no serious international trip.

For me, its not about software, its about durability.

Challenge accepted. :Beach:

I reckon it depends on the riding style. But even then, I'm constantly amazed on what you can get away with. As said, friends of mine mount them to their trail bikes and they don't seem to want to die. The map data, if you don't care about turn by turn, is vastly better either way.

I'm concerned about the bar vibes. Wait and see I guess.

Congrats with the record btw. Extremely well done.

I do agree that rugged specialist units are best, but just to show my luck, my Garmin montana has died within 2 weeks of ownership and was sent to the Garmin hospital yesterday,

My iphone, I have used on the bike regularly, for 2 years, and it only had a fit once with a software update where I lost my music. The only thing that lets the smartphones down are the mounts. I got through 3 plastic iphone mounts, and that was on a road bike, on roads.

colebatch
 

Hey Walter ,, welcome to thread ,,
Wonder if you count , since you ride in some freaky places,,

Tell us what make you are using ,,

As far as Garmin , the durability is a myth I am afraid ,, as mine went bunkers,, only after a month ,, USB port connection. And the pursuing horror customer service. Other testimonials below.

Our navi unit has to come in a total package ,,
Hardware ,, software ,, function ,, durability ,, dependability ,, customer service and economical sense,,
All of above is a right we must and should have as a consumer.

Whatever ,, comes after is a bonus to us ,,, And smart phones do indeed has so many
We are here to discuss the added value of the smart phones and to see whether it can live up to such a myth of a dedicated gps unit being durable.

Garmin horror stories ,,
Accidental Drop Test | POI Factory
Garmin GPS III Pilot ...horror story
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=12001
Cracked Face on Forerunner 310XT | Applied Vitals

Will you do this test on your gps?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDtNCiBQ8lc

Fern
 

Fern ,,
Whether the unit is water proof ,,, or built like a tank ,, I hate anything exposed on the handle ,, giving me a silhouette and a questionable mount system.
I have always used the RAM , Big Box Waterproof ,,, to hold what ever unit I am using,,padded with soft sponge lining,,power cord coming out at the bottom then sealed ,,
Gives me good protection ,, even when I go down.

Durability
 

Walter made a good point ,, for people like him, who does extreme riding,,
I did some Googling ,,,

This German GPS phone ,,, Nice ,, but only the 5 mega pixel camera.
Tak Wak delivers a rugged GPS-smarthpone-radio for the outdoors

Military Grade GPS ,, really rugged ,, Is the screen vulnerable like everything else?
AIS- Rugged PDAs | Rugged Military PDA GPS |Rugged Mobile Computers|Sunlight Readable Touch

Some more tough phones ,,Many are pumping Motorola phones as tough.
JCB Android Phone vs New Durrocomm Oberon Rugged Phone - YouTube

Tough Phone Test ,,, but are they smart?
Tough Phone Test - YouTube

Now ,, where is the right balance between brawn and brain ,,

Finally ,, tough smart phones..
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#hl...iw=925&bih=623

Good links there Joe - I think we've covered off that it very much depends what you want to do.

To be fair, this is an adventure travel forum and the advice people seek is for riding or driving in some extreme places - not just around their own country.

I just found this over on the Garmin Blog

Garmin customers giving thanks

I know it's from Garmin, but still, a pretty impressive story.

Also it's worth pointing out that my Zumo has come off my bike twice now. Once at 70mph on the autobahn after I didn't pop it on the mount properly and once at 30mph - again for failing to mount it properly... it bounced quite happily several times and now has the scars to show for it. But it's still working very will - that was 3 years ago. I love it because I can just grab it and it works - no messing about with add-ons, no messing about with cables, not messing about with worrying about GSM costs or GPRS or turning this or that on or off to make sure I don't get stung when I leave the UK... it just works.

Some more links

Consumer device waterproof test - Garmin nuvi 500 Waterproof Test - YouTube

and then.... actually you know what I'm going to stop. It's clear you don't like Garmin and you have an issue with them - whatever is said you'll argue with and I have riding to be done.... and then a beer. There are more important things to worry about!

Some interesting links Joe and good to see the hardware getting some discussion.
Anything marketed with the J C Bamford (JCB) mark is going to be tough, but you got me looking for more, and I have ended up looking at some websites I haven't seen in some years. :innocent: No! not those, Toms hardware.
One of your youtube vids is for phones from 2005 but coming up from Casio is the smartphone equivalent of the G shock watch:-

Casio's Super-tough G-Shock Smartphone Looks Indestructible

There are also phones being marketed with the Caterpillar logo - will they be the match of JCB??

It will be interesting to hear if Fern's experience with Garmin after sales service for Europe is as bad as yours' has been for Asia, as outlined over on the thread about best value Garmins. :innocent:

Fern,
Would be very interested to hear how you get on with the Garmin after sales + warranty (presumably) coverage.
This thread was started by Joe to explore the whole life cycle of software and hardware issues for smartphones Vs other GPS products (Garmin et al, although Tom tom etc are lying low right now).

Thanks for bringing up the iphone also. There has not been much in here to date about actual experience with different hard wares, and I think you are the first to mention the Apple product.
The mounts also; there seems to be some cheap products on sale, some claiming only for mounting units to cycle handlebars and others for both cycles and motorbikes.

Tough GPS phones , Android based.
 

Hmmmm,,
So ,, phone makers are also seeing a niche ,, smart phone + GPS + durability + waterproof ,,
So this is the magic bullet we are all looking for?
Walkabout ,,That Casio phone looks mean ,,, I can see using that for the RTW ,, leave my Galaxy at home, for my casuals,,,, and really throw away my Garmin ;)

this is what failed everytime...
BikeConsole: iPhone bike mount, iPod Nano Wireless Control on Bike + Cycle Computer

only because the fixings and hinges are not strong enough, the button fell off, two mounts cracked with pressure over time, or worked loose. The recess for the charger didn't fit.

I think its designed for bicycle use primarially, and occasional motorcycle use, but not regular daily use. I still use it but it is held together with araldite and elastic bands!

This is another option
Wunderlich MediaBag

as is the ram box which I would consider if I hadn't have got the Garmin.

I am not sure it has come to market yet; that weblink, as at January 2012, casts doubt about a release date or even if it will be sold.
Casio do have this one in use though:-
Casio G'zOne Commando Review - Watch CNET's Video Review

Hardware:
Early days in this thread, but we can also expect feedback about using tablets to navigate?
Somewhere in here I think I saw use of a tablet in a tankbag on a bike, and there are certainly people using them in 4x4s.

Software:
I do wonder if there is any serious competition to the Android system and the Apple?

Fern
Unlucky -it happens- don't worry- Garmin should replace it under its warranty very fast.
I fully agree with Colebatch & Matt- you have to be able to chose and trust your kit for the environment you will be taking it in-
Vibrations, dust, sand,water etc all conspire to wreck your gear. The Montana has been designed with that in mind and it is also IPX7 certified which is wayyyy more than my Galaxy can ever hope to be :biggrin:

:biggrin3: and for those who do love their Montana:wub:, just a heads up that Touratech have made a mount for it-

You will still need the Garmin power/voice feed mount which all fits together. in the TT one. Solid.
Equipment, as with everything in life, is all about personal choice.:thumbup1:

I think I'm about to offend a few people here, but I reckon there is a lot of dramatization on the supposed ruggedness of their requirements and of the extremeness on rtw trips. Some of the most extreme terrain I've riden were simply the poor roads of Kazakhstan. I'm talking about extreme for the equipment which in my view is different to extreme for the person. I can find those conditions in my backyard to be honest. Even planning to look them up this weekend.

The biggest things that're responsible for equipment failure are shock, vibration and temperature. This is ignoring water and dust for a tick which are relatively easy to design for. Most equipment are standard pcb's with some sort of case to protect it somewhat. So given this I all comes down to the case of the smartphone as to date the same design constraints haven't been adopted with phones, likely for ascetic reasons. We're seeing some change in this now luckily.

I'm planning on giving the ultimate addons case a go for my adventure bike. Not to keen on putting that on my trail bike until my contract runs out of I can buy a cheap second hand one because things lead much harder lifs on that thing which is very evident with my 60csx since it's lived on that. Nothing that the altiplano threw at it could worry it , but since then it's showing some scars. Rider error off course. :blushing:

One Trick Pony
 

With a smile and chagrin,,,
Folks we all know what Garmin and others do ,, navigate.
We are here to explore ,, how we can maximise a multitasking, not only to navigate but improve our lives, while travelling ,,
How many here rides in North Pole ,, comes off the 40' cliff in Himalayas ,,,
And why would you drop anything ,, going 70MPH?

Well the US Army is going with Android and I-Phone.
Army Wants to Issue Battle-Ready iPhone and Android Phones

Let us find that ,, brawn and brain piece of equipment that will cover a range of riders..

Only three months to go ,, where I will do an "Android Only" trip. To see your views in action.

Hardware: one of the big things that lets an Android smartphone down is mounting it to the bike, and you can understand why. Why? Because the market is small and the cost of tooling up for the huge and rapidly changing range of phones is massive. Look at the range of designs, all different sizes, thicknesses, with buttons and sockets in all different places. This is why decent, ruggedized cases and mounts are rare, and we're left to bodge together something from a soft bag, or roughly sized box, with a flexible, badly reflective over-screen, probably designed for city-centre cyclists rather than desert-riding bikers.

So even if Casio, or Samsung or whoever come up with a suitably rugged phone (which by the way you'll probably pay several hundred pounds/dollars for as the market is so small cellphone companies won't subsidise the cost) you still have to attach it to your bike. And you have to know it will stay there, with power running into it, rain or shine, day in day out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an Android smartphone fan, I love their versatility, the wealth of constantly evolving software, the fact that I can have one device to do all things, reasonably well, and that I don't have to pay several hundred pounds for a dedicated device the benefits of which I may only rarely see.

But, as a serious tool for the serious adventurer, it think they have a way to go, and I think until someone designs a decent, waterproof, secure, easy to use mounting system, they will always be second best.

Maybe Garmin should make smartphones?

Casio brand
 

I used to have a lot of faith in the Casio brand back in the days when electronic calculators cost a weeks' wages and their watches were certainly tough and more or less scratch proof on the face.
But I can't say I have bought their products for a long time, so it caught my eye to see them involved in the smartphone business.

I ,, totally agree with you ,, for us adventurers ,,, also when I go sailing , what a hassel to put the phone in and out of the waterproof bag,,,

You know what,, I will call friends at Sam Sung ,, next week ,, and throw the idea around ,,

Garmin make smart phones?
I wish them bon chance ,,

Casio Sony ,, Walkman ,,, Remember Those
 

Transfer of technology my friend ,, same way US lost the shoe industry of 1900s ,, shipping industry of UK ,, Nordic countries ,, to S,Korea soon to China ,, then to Africa ,,,,Cost vs hunger ,, vs ambition as a nation,,,
Sony et al ,, now days rarely made in Japan ,, gone to Thailand ,, China,, Malaysia ,,,
Never touch Japanese stuff any more ,, used to worship their product ,,
Even now ,, that Casio phone uses BING no Goolgle Maps ,, oh dear ,,,

Still ,, for scenery and people I go to Japan,,
For food I go to France and Italy ,,
For conversation and civility ,,I go to UK ,, then to my favourite ,, Scotland ,, Edinburgh and St.Adrews,, Like Leeds ,, too, Wuthering Heights,, and that 3 inch steaks,, I used to be a Chelsea whore in 80s,, off the Kings Road.
For fashion and good times I go to New York ,
For boating to Monaco ,,
For massage I go to Thailand ,,
China , been there 10 times ,, enough,,,
Cambodia,,Laos ,, Vietnam, once is enough ,, India ,, been there dozen times ,, will go again ,,
Egypt ,, three times enough ,, Jordan to Saudi Arabia ,, 3 - 4 times ,, had enough ,,
Libiya , in 80s ,, no Berbers there any more ,, bunch of Arab schmucks ,,,
Turkey far far better ,, Morocco ,, nice also
South of Sahara,, Gabon,,Ghana ,, Sierra Leon OK,,once is enough,,, rest ,, no thank you ,, Kenya, in 80s wonderful ,, two years ago ganz schitzel ,,
Times change and so do the people ,,
Casio was OK ,, 40 years ago when we were students,, better looking than Timex ,,,
Let's move on ,, let's look for that , awesome Android ,, Space Odyssey kind of Android phone ,,
Arthur C. Clarke , used to stay at his house in Unawatuna ,, dated his daughter ,, what an honour ,, what a nice man ,
We had tea and banana chips ,,, on the beach ,, so so long ago ,,
Chandra Soma,, Hector ,,,,,,, even played village doctor,, amazing times ,,,
Unawatuna ..... no more.

If the bag were well designed, and the attachment secure it wouldn't be a problem. Sadly it's not.

While you're there can you get then to throw me a Galaxy Note, to replace my battered Galaxy S, for evaluation purposes of course ;)

Alex the Brit
 

Wait till S3 comes out Alex ,,,,
It makes more sense ,, same and more function than the Note, but smaller. It will fit in your shirt pocket. The case can be replaced very easily,, if it's the exterior.

Apple going Galaxy ,,
Rumor: New iPhone to Have Larger 4.6-Inch Retina Display | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

Americana ,,,
A Thousand Dildos For The Military Wives | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

SeoulJoe, if your friends at Samsung can design a phone with a 4 inch display, thats vibration, dust and rain proof and can put decent GPS software in it, then I am sure people will begin to consider it.

Somehow you also want a software interface that can read Garmin map files ... because thats the format all the maps are in. You might be able to get away with google maps, but you will want to be able to download all the maps at all the resolutions for the areas you want to travel across and save them onto your SD card ... because data charges outside of home country. when using google maps, is very high.

Android, Apple and what else?
 

Time for me to admit; I have no idea what alternatives exist for the software!

Reading somewhere else, is there something on the market to do with microsoft that works inside these smart gadgets - smartphones in particular but tablets also.
And Linux: I am aware of its' existence. Is that software anything to do with this thread?

Why would you want Garmin map capability for RTW? Their content is very limited and I doubt if they'll ever catch up. I wouldn't be surprised if they throw in the towel by ditching their own platform like Archos and go with Android in future. They've already tested the waters with their phone, but noting to serious.

I would prefer Oziexplorer capability, which already has a beta android app out. Androzic allows for existing commercially available maps like Hema maps in Oziexplorer format to be viewed which is brilliant for Aussie outback trips. Those maps tend to be the most detailed.

The ability to us any topo map is much more appealing to me. Gives the out of work cartographers something to do as well. There are already plenty of apps with OSM and Mapquest maps which allow zooming to increase detail.

Cause 3rd party providers like OSM that are free and have the BEST coverage of the non developed world are garmin compatible.

Its like microsoft and PCs ... its not about being the best, its about having the universal format.

So, back with the hardware, Garmin do have a phone and it is using Android:-
Garminfone - Specifications ~ Garmin-Asus
Is this the one that is "nothing serious"?

Apple and Android now rule OK?
 

Continuing my own research I find that there have been a load of operating systems, but I guess they have been beaten into a pulp by Apple and Android based on this article from "not all that long ago" - but it is probably an age in terms of smartphones.
HowStuffWorks "Smartphone Operating Systems"

You got me looking for more about this aspect:- Garmin Smartphone Link Helps Android Users Provide Live Services to Their Garmin Nuvi Devices

Two aspects struck me about this:
1. Garmin seem to be selling additional services that can be obtained for free via a smartphone in any case.
2. You end up "owning" two screens which sort of ties in with earlier comments in here, if you happen to own a Garmin anyway, and all as per the title of this thread - what goes around, comes around!!

The biggest negative for me would be - lose one, lose all.
Not yet seen a robust smartphone/PDA either and most of them don't seem to that good at being... a phone.

John

Fair enough. Not sure if the Garmin platform is a good base though. I thought it was closed source. Looking around the traps a little bit it seems that the oziexplorer format is very popular for the ability to georeference. This is obviously not for the same target market as zoomable mapping like OSM.

Interesting development, but I can't help but think it's half-hearted as was their phone attempt in partnership with Asus. A colleague had one and it was rubbish.

It's understandable to not want to make a complete shift in software platform when you consider this company as a workplace. Not easy to say to long term staff that designed and developed the base software to either move into Android/linux platforms under the supervision or guidance from newly recruited staff with those skills or face retrenching. But they could end up missing the boat like Nokia.

Still sitting on the sidelines = me.
 

Yes, that is one of the factors for where this thread originated, talking with various folks in a different thread about the best value Garmin on the market.
I have never been keen on multi-tools, whether it be that it gets lost, or broken or simply that they tend to do all jobs but none of them particularly well.
But, when it comes to electronics then other facets appear; in this case, Android seems to be a really well regarded "multi-tool" (i.e. loads of apps) operating system. Time will tell.
Even though the OP doesn't like Garmin (I think primarily for its' software, but he can speak more on that) he still carries quite a few tools in his bag - (see earlier posts for his) = smartphone, laptop and, yes, a Garmin!

But, one gets the sense that smartphones are in their infancy for developments regarding navigation apps/software, and who knows where they are going in this regard.

Hardware ruggedness; Yep, needs more development, but I would think that will happen - it did for standard mobile phones with rugged models aimed at farmers (at least one of the vids in an earlier link here is from Farmers Weekly, or some similarly titled source), builders, climbers etc etc.
For the farming video, they drive a tractor and a 4x4 over the various phones on test with no significant distress to the phones.

There are smartphones that don't make calls??

ps Don't have a smartphone, nor a Garmin, but I do have a Tom Tom (but no one talks about them!!)

Android ,, Locus and GPS in Tokyo
 

Spent the weekend in Tokyo ,,
All of above performed well.

Hi,

Tom Tom is out of discusion because there are hardly any good and free maps available for real travel in third world countrys and also the company is selling there cusomers to the police:

TomTom: Navi-Daten der Kunden an Polizei verkauft - News - CHIP Online

Im shure everyone who allready did a real offroad trip knows that Smartphones will not stand the hard vibrations and the dust but my old Garmin Nüvi 250 for US$50 surwifed Africa and Southamerica...

Greetings, Tobi

Tobi,
I haven't gone to Google translate so I will take your word about the information in your link.
Can we be sure that Garmin are not doing the same?
After all, they are tracking their customers which, in itself, is a good argument to revert to old fashioned paper map and compass!

Yes about the availability of maps for them; I have just been reading a GPS thread in the 4x4 section where it is stated that Tom Tom has poor map coverage outside of Europe (which I take to include North America in the context of the theme of that post).

ps, Here's that 4x4 thread
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...inefield-57224

Garmin don't track their users, in the same way that Apple don't track you - despite the fact that a file containing your location data is bounced around servers but is not stored - it's used for figuring out which data to send you on devices that display traffic alerts etc....

For dumb terminal devices nothing is sent back... more importantly when you turn these services on you're warned your location data is sent to Garmin.

My 660 doesn't send anything back to the server, ever, because when I was first asked I said no. That also means I don't get any traffic alerts, software update alerts, or any other nonsense from them.

However, your phone carrier is storing your location data and there's nothing you can do to stop them doing so. They store it for three years and it can be called upon by the police to prove your location in court. So when using an Android or other smart phone that is in any way connected to a mobile network.... you're being tracked, like it or not - another reason why I prefer a dumb GPS to a smart Phone.

m

Just keep your nose clean Matt. Or just report your phone stolen when you get picked up. bier

Next Smart Phone War
 

Is water proofing,,,
Sam Sung is already using waterproofing with HzO WaterBlock Technology | Electronic Devices Waterproof System
for Galaxy S2 ,,
They are in talk to enhance the coverage, not just for phones but also for tabs ,, notes,, as I am told from Sam Sung guys. Expect an announcement soon.

So we sort out the water issue.
Impact issue,,
Software we all know already , APPs are free and superior to Garmin.

Water proof phones already in the channel Fujitsu
Fujitsu ARROWS ES IS12F waterproof phone | Ubergizmo

I'm a great believer in Android, so would love to believe they could be competitive, but I don't believe they can, yet. Aside from all the other factors listed above there's also the screen issue. I use my Galaxy S and when the sun is out it's impossible to read, which makes it useless. Compound that with having to take your gloves off to work it and there's two more issues to surmount.


BTW, daughter?

You can't control the galaxy with your gloves? I tried and worked ok with some pressure.

Alex'es complaint about the Android Screen
 

[QUOTE=take your gloves off to work it and there's two more issues to surmount.


BTW, daughter?[/QUOTE]

Screen;
Alex ,, Galaxy screen ,, I can touch and use ,, over the RAM plastic cover ,, also the waterproof bag I am using ,, just make the display "bright"
S3 coming out with flexible screen ,, probably waterproof too!
Stop arguing for the sake of arguing !

Daughter;
Yes,, guy was a flaming closet gay ,, but he had three god daughters , very exotic looking,, three nieces ,,, very Aussie beautiful,, also called daughters ,,, a step son. A bit of predator as well.. used to pinch boys. Still I respected him ,, had great sense of humour , tight with his money.

I am not going to divulge which daughter / niece ,, that I dated ,, to respect the past.

I used to hover in the days, when there were only 5 - 6 whites around X-Mas time ,, one crazy Asian , would come end of December and leave in April,, moi ,, cast of 60 villagers ,, some 70 fishermen from outlying villages. Whole beach to our selves. My ritual was to wake up ,, go to the beach ,, lay in the sand naked ,, then take a swim to wash ,,, a sweet boy with a great smile would bring my tea in a tall glass. Then off to the village chief,,,Chandra's hut for lunch,,dinner time to time at his house.

I used to rescue beautiful German girls from axxhxxx French boy friends,, who abused them,, then I would end up with the girls,, ,, took care of the suicide of the local innkeeper ,, hanging by the electric wire on a palm tree ,, wife continued to serve toast and eggs,, while her husband swung ,, sea and the wave in the back ground.

Sunset was a religious ceremony above the temple mound ,,
One day at dusk ,, my tea boy that always smiled,, dipped his fishing line at the waters edge by the temple ,, I was the only one watching ,, he then all of a sudden was pulled into the water ,, his head kept bobbing and disappearing over the horizon ,, I ran to the end of the beach ,, screaming ,, hollering ,, some 280 meters ,, fish men were putting the boats away ,, then there they were ,, some 20 men ,, in two boats ,, rowing out to the sea ,, silently. The sea lost it's warmth and golden hue ,, was turning steel grey. I stood on the beach with half dozen fishermen's wives and children.

When they came back, in the moon light,, boy's hand was cut into the bones ,,they don't use poles. He kept smiling. The fish was 1.20 meters long ,, 80 CM high ,, looked like a Rugby ball ,, with fat thick lips and small fins,, 30 CM thick ,,

I picked up the boy,, shoulder high ,, gave him kisses and hugs,, gave him 20 dollars for the fish,, barn fire was built over palm tree leaves ,, rice was cooked,, we fed some 50 people that night ,, every one in the village and several Europeans ,, No Yanks ventured out that far then ,,

Then there is the story about the night time monkey rescue, with Chandra ,, operations I used to do on kids with horrible infections on their limbs,, feet ,, and hand ,, Australian volunteer girls ,, flashing their eyes ,, one used to come every weekend from Colombo, to spend weekend at my hut ,, Canadian ambassador's daughter ,, I had known many daughters in my youth ,, now that I have a daughter,, I think twice ,, thrice,,

Walking into a temple ceremony at 3AM ,, in Kandy ,, couldn't sleep ,, heard faint drum beats far away,, bampa ra bamapa bam bam pa ,, bampara bampa bam bam pa ,, it was coming from the other side of the lake,,,listened to it for another thirty minutes ,, thinking it would end ,, didn't ,, walked towards the sound of the drums,,dark night ,, moon was trying ,, long and wide lake,, heard water monsters burping ,, at the water's edge ,, hoping the drums would not stop...then on the right,, on the hill ,,dark ,, immense,, big ,, black stone temple ,,, no one around ,, drum beat getting louder and louder ,, and at the top ,, you enter a gate with huge elephant tusk crossing above your head ,,then down the long steps into a long torch lit chamber ,, rows of effeminate boys ,, in bizzare make up and costume ,, dancing ,, non stop..bangles every where ,, eyes rolling up and down,, worshippers ,,hundreds of them sitting leaning against the long wall. I,,,stoned out of my mind ,, sat and watched ,, thinking of LSD I took long ago in Manzanillo, Mexico,, when the sun came up,,we all went and washed our feet together,,out side ,, a long wash basin ,, then rice and curry was served. Boys looked like girls coming out the disco after it closed. I went back to my hotel exhausted. No water monsters on the way.

How I met Sting at the Galle Hotel ,,, the Victorian collumns ,, boys in long white aprons ,, Casablanca ceiling fans ,, one of the best wine collection ,, good quartet of base chello .. violin ,, guitar and piano. Followed up with Sting in Y2K,, X-Mas at the Rio de Janeiro ,, same hotel on the beach,, right next room.. we both had family then.

Other time,, a couple ,, English ,, looked hungry,, on honeymoon. So I fed them at the Galle Hotel ,, lanai .. ordered wine and had several bottles,, I was lonely too ,,They were grateful and their money was running low,,, tells me to call them, when I am in London,,he turns out to be an owner of a famous club in Chelsea ,, when I went to London next Spring ,, they threw me a party ,,Chelsea insiders,, introduced me to Zxxxxxx ,, an Ethiopian fashion model, with face on the Italian Vogue ,,, I was in love with her for two years.

Ferry from Jaffena to Tamilnadu, India ,,, two Italian heroine addicts on the way to Goa ,, I with them ,, almost got me killed. Another time.

Unawatuna now,, from late 80s,,they raped it with third rate hotels ,, then Tsunami hit ,,
Sinhalese are very greedy people hiding behind the facade of religious - intellectual blah blah ,, while treating Tamils like dogs ,,

No, I can't control the Galaxy with gloves on, I don't see how you'd be able to as it's got a capacitive screen, not unless you've got really, really thin gloves. I have a hard enough time getting it to work through the thin layer of plastic on its waterproof case.

And brightness is at its highest, but the reflections off the waterproof case's screen make the image underneath nigh on invisible. I know not a problem with the phone itself but if the method of attachment is unreliable the phone is useless.

Incidentally, I also had a warning that the battery was over-heating whilst charging in the case, it paused charging while it cooled, but the warning pop-up kept popping up, obscuring the sat-nav display.

So no, I don't think they're perfect, yet. But they're not bad if you accept the shortcomings and spend time, and money getting past them.

Ah the gloves !
 

You are right ,, hard to do with gloves ,, but so is Garmin.
Power heating ,, hmm ,, never happened to me,, on both S1 and S2 ,,
Looking at the screen ,, until water proof ones come out , we have to use the protective case ,, vision always blurry.
Imagine a Gopro Android.
Soon Alex ,,

Roaming charges for Europe are to reduce, and soon
 

Good news for Europe is that the EU has ruled on roaming charges - they have done enough to make the mobile phone companies unhappy, so watch out for other charges to make up the difference!

EU agrees mobile roaming price cuts - FT.com

Here's the idea, in case the link doesn't work:-

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. EU agrees mobile roaming price cuts - FT.com

(Oh well, seemed like a good idea, but they don't like C&P).

Nope, sorry, not true. The Garmin 660 has a dedicated non-capacitive screen - this means it can be used with gloves - even dirty great bit Hein Gerike rain gloves.... like mine. Or a stylus, or your sun glass, or... well anything works really.

http://www.hein-gericke.co.uk/media/...schwarz_29.jpg

In fact, the 660 'knows' when it's on the motorcycle mount and automatically changes the menu to use large glove friendly buttons so you don't have to take your gloves off to change settings or put a new address in...

http://www.thesatnavwarehouse.com/cm...nu_address.jpg

Oh yes... it also allows you to customise the menu with the buttons you use most - nice big quarter screen buttons - so you can do things like quickly view the compass and what-not.

Matte
 

Well Matt,, one for the Garmin 660 ,,
I've tried Galaxy with thick leather gloves ,, won't work.
Only the 660 model? My Garmin 755T also will not work with thick gloves.
But again, is it a such a big deal to take one's gloves off to enter a data?

Google Maps
 

Due to Google's licensing demand,, Locus or any other APP based navigation software will not carry the Google online map any more. You can still use Google Places search for the address then add the way way points to Locus.

It is if it's cold and pouring with rain or you just want to hit 'petrol station' when you're at lights or heading down the motorway, or you want to hit a way-point. it goes back to my point of a device specifically designed to do the job rather than a kludge of tech to make it work some other way.

So to be clear - I'm not saying all Garmin devices are suitable for motorcycle travel - I'm saying the ones designed for motorcycle travel are the best on-bike GPS tools you can get.

Tom Tom
 

On the "et al" side of the title of this thread - specifically concerning Tom Tom - it seems that Smartphone technology may lead to the demise of their domestic use products:-
Post number 16 in this thread indicates that Tom Tom may withdraw from the consumer market for GPS
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...or-nay-62779-2

Who would that leave to fight it out with the Smartphones?
Garmin and Magellan are the two that I know about.

Dave
 

Dave,, I think ,, you will find many urban folks will prefer smart phones to et als,,for city navigation and auto driving. Also for bicycle riders , smart phone is catching on,, and increasing use by motorcyclists as well, here in Korea.

I have augmented my G2 with following two cases,, one is a waterproof case, from buybit UK,
Ultimate Addons Components :: [ BuyBits ] The Ultimate Addons
which can be mounted on the handle bar and has sturdy locking structure as well as very thick inner rubber padding. In the demo,, I do see a biker using it, with riding gloves on.
The white one is another water proof bag that will actually float and can dive to 30 meters and camera can be used under water, which I use for sailing.

My recent trials between the Galaxy2 and Garmin ,, I find that smart phone locks into the satellite quicker and maintains the link longer than the Garmin. Where else ,, I keep getting signal lost or weak from my 755T.

As for Mapdroyd App ,, I find it rubbish ,, X blow outs not impressive at all. Rather using Locus ,, under Map ,, selct online map of your choice then Download ,, By Country ,, X 1,2 ,3 , 4 , 5, 6 , 7 and 8 gave me much clearer X blow outs. And with Vector Maps as a back up on my Locus for cities,, I can define the streets with maximum X blow outs. These you can use for OFFLINE ,, Even the online maps ,, including Google Map, Mapquest and OSM ,, if you cache the map, in significant quantity,,you browse on line ,, I find that I can carry x6 minimum on my phone for reference OFFLINE ,,

So , to download custom maps , you simply click few buttons in Locus,, rather than downloading OSM then using Mapsource to transfer to the et als.

But as I've said ,, like to put eggs in several baskets ,, will keep my Garmin, on the bike.

As I posted in reply there, it looks like TomTom may pull out of the hardware market to concentrate on producing software. This makes sound business sense as the profit isn't in building and maintaining factories to make wires and stuff, rather in paying a few coders sat in front of computers with cups of coffee. They've been doing that for smartphones since the early days of Windows Smartphone 2003 which needed a dedicated bluetooth GPS unit. No doubt they could also provide software for other sat-nav makers so expect to see Mio GPS with TomTom built in and TomTom for Android and iOS.

Garmin seem to have decided to diversify offering dedicated machines for anyone and everyone who ever ventures outside, it will be interesting to see whose business model suceeds in the face of stiff smartphone competition. We may argue the merits of one or the other for adventure bikers but we're a very small market and while smartphones may not yet satisfy the needs of the dedicated multi-day adventurer, for everyday round town with the convenience of Google's all powerful search engine they're hard to beat.

May I gently :smiliex:draw your attention that, for OSM, you have the direct option to download an .img file that simply needs be copied (and renamed if you wish) to a micro SD card ready to use - without the need for MapSource at all.

Joey, there is another GPS application designed for Android you may wish to look up and try. It is called SKOBBLER. Quite effective and free.

Bertrand
 

May I ,,, gently..... be blunt?
Try Sygic ,, even better ,,you download the map direct, within the program.
Your bike mount must have cost same as your Garmin ,,
Belly button bigger than the stomach?
Simplicity is the most flattering form of art.
Thought , I was talking to Matt ,, about his cooking. Gee,,,


Had Sygic long ago ,, had crashing problem ,, recently tried it ,, great OFFLINE NAVIGATION App here for now.

Hiya

Not having a smart phone so not knowing, but does your Galaxy do that when it has no phone signal too? I thought phones used 3G to help locate them, so no signal and it will perform worse, or???

To what extent do you think your opinion would be altered if you had a bike specific gps, and your unlimited data costs were £35 a month as they would be for me in the UK today, and then spiralling out into big bills if I were to travel with it? (Put another way, can you tell me where I can buy one of your SIMS ;))

Is an inny or an outy belly button better for gps reception on a bike?

Jason

:)

3G and Smart Phone Navigation
 

Grizzly ,, if you have an OFFLINE map ,, you do not need need to be wired. Also the phone signal is not necessary.
For OFFLINE GPS navigation ,, so far ,, OSMAND and Sygic apps are best.
OSMAND is free ,, Sygic used to be free now they wat 55 euro for Europe and Russia ,,, There are other APPs as well ,, but having tried them all ,, I found Locus for ONLINE navigation and Sygic for OFFLINE are the best. For smaller area of 10sq miles,,, cache the google map then you can also navigate OFFLINE.

Unlimited data for 35 quid a month is a godsent deal. You can work your smart phone as a navigation tool as well as a PC ,,
Here in Korea I have same deal ,, unlimited data for 35 quid and When I am overseas ,,, USD 10 a day for unlimited data, for the days I am using. Meaning I can do internet and navigate. The plan covers 55 countries, including Russia.

I doubt you can buy unlimited data sims ,,, but you should check with your home carrier for overseas data roaming.

iPhone hardware
 

There is some technical chat in this thread http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...santiago-63651 about rigging up a charging system for an iPhone.
Interestingly, there are a couple of links in there to motorcycle mounting systems for iPhones, each of which has an amount of water resistant (relevant since nothing is "waterproof") capability:-

Dave Mac’s Blog

First iPhone Motorcycle Mount allowing control of iPod Music with Gloves when you ride | Android iPhone iPad WindowsPhone - intellimail.Pro

Sygic for Smartphone
 

Bought the map for Galaxy S2,, Europe and Russia for 54 Euros.
Pros ,,,, if you press the screen on a local city and zoom in,, you get local POIs (point of interests) pops up with clear location. Extensive POIs ,, bakery to hospitals,, universities to famous churches. You just press the POI you want and navigate to it.

Once you buy the maps ,, you own it for your life time ,, not the unit life time. You can also transfer the ownership of the map.

You download the map of your choice, within the program, using wi-fi,,, download speed is 200KB to 2MB per second , amazing speed.

Completely OFFLINE..

Cons,, you can not import your own route or POIs ,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkL1L...eature=related

Tango
 

App.. Tango on smart phones..when online. Free video phone call. Time HUBB had an app.

from what i've heard/read, the new hubb when it goes live will work with tapatalk.

JCB are even more rugged
 

Meantime, for the hardware, JCB are continuing to add their brand name to smartphones:-
The Next Generation Of The World’s Toughest Phones - News - JCB Toughphone

For instance, there is a JCB edition of the Motorola Defy with an extended warranty:-
Handset Range - JCB Toughphone

Between those two links there are claims of waterproofness, drop test resistance, military specifications, and dust proofness - all singing, all dancing phones basically!!

Android apps
 

There's some more reference to Android software within the Morocco forum.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-morocco-62915

While some of this has been mentioned in here before (OsmAnd), I think this one is new here:-
Features

Home1

How many more apps can there be, and which are going to dominate this market??

Osmand
 

Dave ,
OSMAND free version, you can download 8 maps. Fee based for USD 5 unlimited.
Very good maps ,, clear in detail and numerous preloaded POIs (point of interests) However,,, after trying both free and fee version ,,I am finding that it hangs up time to time and loading of map is very slow. Also the menu ,, I found was primitive at best. Last kicker ,, frequesnt I/O Error, while downloading the map.

GPSmapp ,, you have to cache tons of Gogle maps, in order for it to work offline.. found it too slow and boring. Yes it is free ,,

There are many other APPs,,,
Some good reports here ,, though a bit dated.
Android Sat Nav Apps

Who will dominate?
The one being used by industries...

Sygic's clients.
[IMG]file:///Users/Yun/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

Sam Sung Galaxy S3
 

Not much of an improvement from S2.
Just heavier, same 8MP camera. Improved processor speed. For my purpose,, do not see a need to change for now.

I disagree. I'd be all over that.

S3
 

Let us know ,, your findings. I do like the wi-fi charging feature.

I'm still on my contract, so will have to sit that out first. Nothing wrong with my S2 for the moment. Loving the DLNA stuff that's out now. Torrent downloading is awesome. Just found that as well.

Waterproofing, or water resistance
 

This new product had some publicity on a UK TV show recently.
Currently it is available only in the USA, having been developed there, but if it is as good as it claims to be, then I can see a worldwide market.

Liquipel in Action

No pricing was mentioned in the TV report.
They tested the product by exposing a smartphone treated with this stuff to saltwater spray generated by a powerboat.


It would also be applicable for waterproofing "car type" GPS units that currently have no such capability (+ any cables that feed power to a smartphone/ GPS?)

Profit
 

When this thread started,, I called GRMN on Nasdaq a short ,, 48.40 a share then. Today it closed 37.2, while the market rallied 2%.
Exception of few products for die hards,, I feel Garmin will lose more market share to the smart phones and apps, on daily basis.

Host of new maps,, Apple got rid of Google maps , coming out with their own,, also look for the new V map ,, complete 3d with view of interiors.
Garmin is a toast.

I killed my garmins at Omsk.. Stompef on them with my boots...threw them away in rubbish.. Made a video... My Sam Sung S2 using Sygic 98 percent accuracy. Locus pro also sucked..
Got caught in a thunder storm coming over the Urals... S2 under Ram mount box.not a leak. Garmins dud not work at allbith 755t and 265. Even using them as mp3 failed.
GRMN now 38... This stock should be in single digit.

wow. This is still rumbling on. :rolleyes2::rolleyes2:

Maybe because it is spreading in utility; the software aspect is certainly under review & consideration outside of this thread:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-morocco-62915