Something I learned that all you techies probably know: The phones tell if they are connected to something big or small by looking at pins 2 and 3 on the USB input. If these two are shorted your phone battery state will be "Charging (mains)" and you have all the power you can from the wall or vehicle charger. If these pins are not connected the charge rate is limited, the phone will say "Charging (USB)" and if you have enough stuff running you can use power faster than you charge.


My box of AA's thingy gives "USB charging", so GPS only with the music etc. turned off.


I also found a combination of Amazon Kindle charger and USB cable that gave the USB rate, so check before you go.


My tablet has this type of GPS, so yet another back up with 4 hours battery life.


Still, it's better than the crappy power cradle thing TomTom came with that lasted under a year and then requires you to snap the door off the unit and buy a car charger. I can buy a micro-USB cable or car charger in any town, TomTon use their own weird sizes.


Andy

But my question was being able to use AAs without any other gadgets widgets or other accessories.

That's asking for the known road. (Dutch figure of speech that may not translate well ;-) )

Off course you can't. Large phones have 2.5Ah batteries because they're designed to allow for heavy use. AA's don't have that much.
But it's a moo point. You can use AA's but you'll probably never have too. I only use external batteries when I'm flying around. Besides that power is everywhere.
But if you would need to walk it out it'll probably be fully charged because it's been on bike power all that time. Turn the power save on, screen on min brightness, wifi and Bluetooth off, phone on GSM only (wish offline mode could still use GPS) and you've got 2 days of GPS use providing you don't want to see where you are every 5 mins. That's up to 100 km walking. Haven't seen any accounts of that happening along a road or trail.

Compass
 

For 100Km of walking one or other of the compass app(s) should be useful.
Has anyone used them? There are dozens of them available.

I wonder how much battery power one of those consumes.
Anyway, put one of them with a paper map and start walking!

Hi Warden:

I don't think there are any contemporary phones that are designed to run off batteries. Per EU directive, all phones sold in the EU since about 2013 must accept a 5 volt charge from a small USB connection. AA batteries are 1.5 volts each, there's no easy way to divide 5 by 1.5.

If you are really out in the middle of no-where, either a solar charger (for sunny days) or some kind of auxiliary battery pack that outputs 5 volts and has a reasonable amp-hour reserve will probably serve you best.

Michael

I always carry a Silva compass with me just in case. Most time purple have studied a map enough to know what's roughly around and in which direction in a 100 km radius.
Beyond that, there's always Bear Grylls shows for "how to navigate the wild" homework. ;-)

Ok look I knew the answer before I posed the question let's move on

But just remember that not everyone uses a bike this is the hubb not advrider, not everyone uses android phones, my iPhone will not run on battery anywhere near the time tmottens Samsung will (pretty sure that mine might get an hour or 2 running gps with everything else turned off)

Paneuropean, the EU directive you refer to was nothing to do with power sources but unifying chargers to stop the millions of chargers specific to one brand or another that went in the bin every year.

If you on 4 or more wheels multifunction devices are not really as relevant as for the bikers were weight is. Screen Size, accuracy and mapping are important.

Going back to my walking out case I would want my phones power saved for its purpose in life.......to phone for help when I got a signal

Nothing wrong with a Silva: I still have a couple of them.
That guy is the current Chief Scout of the UK scouting movement: Baden Powell must be rotating in his grave.
:offtopic: ? Maybe not.


Just curiosity, but which iPhone are you using? (big screen or smaller screen?)

For 4 wheels I use a 7 inch tablet which does not have a SIM card - so it uses only wifi for acquiring the software and that "forces" me to experiment with android nav apps that work only offline.
+ those apps cannot "steal" my phone book contacts simply 'cos they don't exist in there.

iPhone 4S but might be upgrading soon, battery life is one reason

Yeah. Personally don't like devices where you can't change the battery out.

Psssst Warden how does 15.6 days sound? ( that is what my phone says when switched on to ultra power saving mode - Samsung)

and btw- I've finally managed to put the Olaf map on my Android phone (not that I would put that on my handlebars bouncing on trails!!)

:Beach:

Did you got any more details with Olafs map, compared to Openstreetmaps Road, Terrain, Satellite Hybrid view of Google and Bing - which are downloadable for offline usgage with LocusPro (Android) or MotionX (Apple Devices)?

How did you add Olfas Map, what Apps did you use for that?

Thanks for deeper explanations :thumbup1:

Surfy

Oh, c'mon now. You've made it this far in your experimentation. I'm sure you've got a old one lying around that you could take the next step with. ;-)

[QUOTE=tmotten;484613]Oh, c'mon now. You've made it this far in your experimentation. I'm sure you've got a old one lying around that you could take the next step with. ;-)[/QUOTE

I suspect you have touched on another aspect of owning smart phones: not only does everyone have one nowadays (I resisted for many years and became a convert just a few months ago) but there is more than one in a lot of households.

Therefore, as you say, an older model can be used for all manner of "disposable" uses such as for a dedicated navigation device.

A few weeks later and Mapswithme is now marketed as "maps.me".
MAPS.ME - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In any case there seems to be a growing number of apps that simply access OSM data/maps and add some form of interface to market yet another mapping/navigation function on smart phones .

There is a very brief overview of maps.me in this link:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-offline-78340

Still no nearer to identifying the "killer" app.
:innocent:

Let's try and define this app.

I'm pretty happy with what I've been using thus far. But I'm now using it less on the bike, and more in the backcountry. Will be using the phone as a backcountry ski touring nav device in the Canadian Rockies and Columbia Mountains this winter. See how that'll go. The guide/ instructor at the Avi course said they can't handle the cold. But that's circumstantial as well.

I'm 99% sure that you mean to define Backcountry navigator, but which app will you use for vehicle navigation if the former is becoming dedicated to navigation on foot/skis and the like?
There again, with the weather as it is in the north of America you probably don't need anything other than skis at present!

Currently, I continue an interest in "where the maps come from in the first place".
I expected this to be fairly straight forward but it isn't; there are regional considerations (basically why produce and market maps for a small, non-populated area when there are big places to hand) for instance. And then there is the business aspect, whereby just because there is an app out there doesn't mean that they own and supply the actual map data - this relates to the growing popularity of the open source OSM, but it applies to others also.
Within the business "model" there is the market for automobile Sat Nav which is massive compared with some others such as motorcycles, although I could envisage a day when all new bikes come fitted with a built in Sat Nav system just as has occurred with cars.
Here is but one example of the way things are, but it is by no means up to date or complete as the discussion page associated with it shows.
Comparison of web map services - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Talk:Comparison of web map services - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And, that table hardly starts to consider the application of digital mapping to mobile devices with a built in bias therein toward OSMAnd at present (maybe the mobile contribution was made by someone associated with OSMAnd, who knows?!!)

The link above got me looking in a bit more detail at the sources of maps used by those mapping services listed in the link; those sources are listed as --
Map Data Providers MAPIT, TeleAtlas, DigitalGlobe, MDA Federal, user contributions NAVTEQ, TeleAtlas, i-cubed, Public domain NAVTEQ, Intermap, Pictometry International, NASA Navteq, OpenStreetMap user contributions User Contributions Navteq TomTom, and others

That led me to this business https://www.whereismaps.com/device/p...on-device.html who appear to be the "others" alongside Tom Tom for the Antipodes (one of them anyway).
Just goes to show how the acquisition of data for mapping is still regionalised although I suspect that there will be considerable ongoing rationalisation (in business terms) of such companies as businesses attempt to dominate in this market.

""For software, I have just re-read the whole thread to remind myself of the themes here .......................................
the softwares identified in here are:-
Locus
OSMAnd
Navfree
MapDroyd
Backcountry Navigator
Androzic (Oziexplorer?)
Sourceforge
Soviet Military Maps Free
Mapquest
Google Maps
Skobbler
Viewranger
Sygic
Navigon (now owned by Garmin)
Tom Tom on Android
Ovimaps (therein lies a story)
MapsWithMe (now Maps.me)
MotionX
Navit
iOverlander (this slipped in as an IPhone OS?)
Avenza
PathAway""

That list from earlier and the increasing use and popularity of OSM led me to consider open cycle map:-
OpenCycleMap.org - the OpenStreetMap Cycle Map
This may be biased toward the UK; I don't know because I haven't looked at it in much detail, but it definitely acknowledges OSM as its' base mapping for its' own purposes.


Having just ditched Maps.me from my phone for reasons stated earlier (I think - can't quite remember if that was in this thread or somewhere else!!) I am now trying out viewranger from the list above.
First impressions are that this is a very comprehensive android navigation and mapping app.
For instance, it seems to do tracks and routes while it provides access to the following maps as routine while connected online and it can save maps for use offline:-
OSM, courtesy of Mapquest
OSM, standalone
Opencyclemap
Bing Aerial Imagery (so, a competitor to google maps imagery also on android, naturally)
Skiing map
Transport map
OR your own previously saved maps

Actually, Calgary didn't get a whole lot of snow, but the heavens seem to be opening this week.

I guess I'm coming from it from a different angle. Luckily the platform allows for the large differences in use which is why I'm loving it so much. I don't see the need for something to tell me I need to make a right turn at a T junction. If I'm not sure in the direction I'm heading, which is usually in the middle of the day with the sun dead above you, Backcountry Navigator will be enough. When I get to cities there are plenty of apps that could be used with openstreetmap.

I kind of draw a line in category between the 2. 1 being a topo mapping tool, the other a city mapping tool. The use for it (car, cycle, bike, ski's or walking) is irrelevant. So long at it allows off-line, the zoom is smooth and uncluttered and the positioning is accurate (hence the interest in BN) I'm happy a Larry.

I guess you will stick with backcountry navigator (BN) in that case no matter what means of transport/movement is in use.
I surmise that you have found your own "killer app" whereas I am still experimenting with a few - however I haven't yet tried out BN.

We are broadly thinking the same way: I use turn-by-turn navigation when it is helpful such as close into a final destination in a large, unknown-to-me conurbation. The rest of the time I am also a "happy as Larry" free-runner.


Nice! Better than the rain.

Copilot for any pilot
 

I've just fallen upon this smartphone app that seems to do just about everything in the urban environment (for those who like to have their hand held ever so tightly while navigating).
CoPilot - Your Best way to Navigate
It's not one I can remember hearing of previously (perhaps because their webpage has a definite slant towards the north american continent) and I certainly haven't investigated it at all - maybe some one has tried it??

One for the iPhone enthusiasts
 

I came on this while looking for information about alternative sources of digital mapping.
Route Planning on the iPhone | Adventure GPX

Although it is specifically about iPhones it also relates to the wider topic of said maps and also the software available nowdays for route planning (something which has scarcely been mentioned herein previously).

Copilot update
 

Reading in other places I glean that this particular app is very orientated to the market in north america; so much so that to purchase maps for other parts of the world is a relatively expensive transaction compared with the competitors.
On that basis I would expect it to remain "pinned" to the americas, certainly for anyone who does some basic research.

Meanwhile I have remembered this thread of a while ago:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...software-72464
(I took nearly a year off from this type of interest to get on with my other life and I kind of thought this information was part of this thread).

Well, I did a 7,000 mile trip during November, from Toronto to Alabama to California then back again, and I tried out both navigation methods.

I used the Sygic GPS application running on an Apple 4S for the first 2,000 miles of the trip. It worked, in the sense that it provided me with navigational guidance. It had a few drawbacks:

1) The iPhone is not waterproof, I had to put it in a Baggie whenever it was wet out or was raining.

2) The buttons (soft-keys, actually) on the iPhone were far too tiny to operate when riding the bike and wearing leather gloves (temperatures were near freezing for much of this trip). In fact, the darn buttons were so tiny it was almost impossible to operate them while riding even if I was not wearing gloves. This meant that making any adjustments to the route, display, etc. required a stop at the side of the road.

3) Display could be difficult to see in bright sunlight.

On the other hand, the 'navigation via smartphone' had a few advantages:

4) Less stuff to carry, since I would have taken a phone along with me on this trip anyway.

5) Relatively cheap ($100) application, map subscription, and application add-ons. I already owned the phone, so no additional disbursement there.

After 2,500 miles, I bought a Garmin Zumo 590 and installed it on the motorcycle. It presented the following advantages:

1) Waterproof, huge buttons (soft-keys), easy to operate while riding wearing leather gloves. Very easy to read in bright sunlight - the brighter the sunlight, the easier it was to read (see picture below, which was taken in bright sunlight).

2) Much larger (dimensionally) display, which made it a lot easier to quickly interpret the information with one fast glance. I think the iPhone actually has a higher resolution display (more pixels), but too much information was crammed into the Sygic display, hence it was not easy to interpret quickly.

3) Much easier quick look-up, while riding, of places I wanted to visit ahead of me on my route, such as restaurants, hotels, and gas stations.

4) Fewer button-pushes needed to switch between modes of operation (navigation, phone, music, weather forecasts).

5) It monitored my tire pressure for me, which was nice.

The Garmin had a few disadvantages:

6) It was expensive, $800.

7) Initial install of the cradle & wiring harness took some time.

------------------------------------

What I learned:

- It's quite remarkable that a $100 application running on a smartphone can suffice to provide navigation guidance from Toronto, Canada down to the Gulf Coast of the USA. It wasn't pleasant, but it did the job and got me there.

- Navigation via a smartphone is a bit like a dog walking on its hind legs: What is impressive is that the dog can do it at all, not how well the dog does it.

- If I want to use a smartphone for navigation, either in the car or on the moto, I have to stop the vehicle to make inputs to the smartphone. This is because of the very small control buttons presented.

- The purpose-built Garmin device costs 8 times as much, but is significantly easier to use and to interpret (to view). I'm happy I spent the money buying it.


So, there you have it, a review of both devices over the course of a very long winter motorcycle ride.

My take-away is that if a rider only occasionally needs to use a navigation device on a motorcycle, and already has a smartphone that has a physically large screen (5 inches diagonal or more), then the smartphone with the Sygic application could take the place of a dedicated GPS navigator.

But, if a rider plans to frequently or continually use a GPS device for navigational guidance, I think it would be best - and safest - to buy a waterproof dedicated GPS navigator, preferably one that is designed for motorcycle use.

Michael

The Zumo 590
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps03643a01.jpg

That was a good road trip PanE.

I am not an iPhone enthusiast so I will not pass comment on that aspect.
However -
I wouldn't, personally, spend 100 of any currency on a smart phone app simply to trial it when there are so many free ones out there.
In fact my smart phone cost less than that in GB pounds.
And, you bought maps when OSM is out there on many apps for free.

Naturally, nor would I spend 800 beer tokens on a GPS!
So, we are definitely in two different economies.

I don't know anything about the sygic display but many of the competitor apps have displays that can be tweaked i.e. pre-set by the owner/user to display just about whatever is required, or display just the map. I imagine that only the most expensive GPS have that same feature.
One of them that I tried out over a year ago has a pitch, roll and yaw option that might appeal to you e.g. could be useful in a microlight.

I don't arrive at your lessons learnt therefore, primarily for the reason that you trialled just one of the vast range of apps that are on the market (and an expensive one at that!); the thinking about the pros and cons are well explored in earlier posts, including the aspect of urban Vs remote area use of navigation aids.

Incidentally, but of relevance, I would have liked to know how your trial coped with aural navigation - in the sense that I much prefer listening to a navigational aid rather than developing "screen fixation".

I look forward to reading about your future trials!

I have a gpsmap62c from Garmin which I love but.. it runs on two penlite AA batteries. I now haul a (heavy) charger for this purpose only. Anyone with a better solution? As far as I know you can't charge the batteries while in the device. Take a gamble and hope to run into a charger somewhere ? How common are they along the road? Or what other are there?

Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory.

A few months ago I was in the market to replace my Garmin 60CSx. It was starting to behave a little erratically. (Turned out it just needed a software update and to fully dry out from being fully submerged for 15 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6maYFQEnokk :blushing:

The 62 looked like an option because it would have fitted in the same RAM cradle, but could only be powered via usb or AA batteries. So I went out and bought another used, but newer, 60CSx instead. Why? Because I have a dedicated (generally water repellant) power jack that runs from the 12v bike battery that fits the 60. So the AA batteries are only needed when the unit is off the bike.

Now I carry 2 units: One is a spare that carries the same mapping software and tracks/routes/waypoints/pois.

I also like my 60 because it has buttons and no touch screen.

So I need to fix a powered wire to the dashboard and connect via USB? That way no batteries are needed and I can use it? So far it shoots into pc mode as soon as USB is inserted.. I'll try some more. Sorry about this though. I'm permanently blocked from the gps forum back home since 'lot of attacks are coming from asia' ... so I can't ask it there. Thanks though!!

Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory.

I am not at all a cognoscenti of mobile phones - I used a Blackberry for years because that was what my company gave me. I asked them to give me an iPhone a few years ago because it could run an aviation weather app that would save me a lot of time when working. When I retired, they let me keep the phone, and I have no plans to replace it until it dies. It works, it makes phone calls, it runs a small selection of specialty apps that I find useful. That's enough for me. I'm not a heavy user of the phone, I often ignore it for days at a time.

I only chose that application (which cost about $100, with all the maps and a few select add-ons) because Seoul Joe spoke so highly about it in his many posts earlier in this same thread.

But, what a software developer might term a 'feature' is not necessarily a 'benefit' to the user. I remember that 10 years ago, a user could heavily customize the screen appearance and level of data presented on the Garmin GPS units, for example, the StreetPilot III. I spend hours fooling around trying to fine-tune the device so it displayed only what I wanted, in a layout that I thought best.

Beginning about 7 years ago, with the introduction of the Nuvi series, Garmin thinned out about 90% of the user-configurable controls from the display. I remember complaining about that (I was a beta-tester for Garmin at the time) and being told by the software team to just settle down and try the new strategy out for a couple of months. Sure enough, a couple of months later, I realized that it was actually a lot simpler and faster to use the newer design... too much user customization ability can actually be a burden, rather than a benefit. Sort of like DOS 3.1 vs. Windows 7, if you know what I mean.

Since then, advances in processing power and continued software development have greatly simplified operation of the Garmin devices. When I fitted the Zumo 590, the biggest choice I had to make (and about the only choice I truly needed to make) was whether to run it in landscape or portrait mode. As for everything else, the device was designed thoughtfully enough to ensure that it gave me the information I needed when I needed it, and didn't bother me with unnecessary information when I didn't need it.

Very careful attention that the software development team paid to what was displayed when on the screen meant that I rarely needed to adjust the zoom level, or the brightness, or go 'digging' into menus to find more detailed information.

Oh God no. The worst that can happen when fooling around with consumer electronics for vehicle navigation is that you get lost. The stakes are higher in flight. For any aviation-related matters, the device needs to comply with the TSO (Technical Standards Orders) set out for aviation use, otherwise I think it is safest to simply leave it off the aircraft. The only possible exception I can see to that would be using an automotive navigator (phone or dedicated) to assist with visual navigation in extremely small recreational aircraft (ultralights or microlights). But, my background is commercial transport aircraft, I have no experience with recreational aircraft.

What I tried to do was compare the best available phone-based navigator (that evaluation having been provided by Seoul Joe) with the best available dedicated GPS navigator.

A very good question.

I was disappointed with the quality of the aural prompts provided by the Sygic smartphone application. It provided 'correct' prompts, in the sense that the directions given were appropriate, but the quality of the synthetic voice was wretched - it sounded like a cartoon character, and the speed of the voice was too fast. There was no implementation of phrasing. It was not, by any means, 'natural speech'.

On the other hand, the Zumo 590 voice prompt quality was a great (and pleasant) surprise to me. Garmin has made major improvements - full order of magnitude improvements - to the quality of the audio prompts.

Not only were the voices entirely natural and extremely easy to understand, the speech was 'natural' - phrases, pauses, and inflection almost perfectly matched natural speech. Even dialect could be selected (British English used the term 'slip roads', American English spoke of 'on and off ramps'). The aural prompts also took full advantage of the road attributes contained in the database. Hence, a series of aural prompts for a single right turn might go like this:

(2 km prior): In 2 km, turn right on Highway 10.

(1 km prior): Be in either of the two right lanes. (or) Be in the right lane. (At the same moment, a photo-realistic view of the available lanes would be presented, with the desired lanes clearly highlighted, as illustrated in the image below).

(400 m prior): Turn right at the Esso station.

(100 m prior): Turn right on Highway 10 now.

I like voice prompts, but for me, they serve a different and non-overlapping purpose to the map displayed on the screen. The voice prompts provide tactical guidance, meaning, they tell you what you have to do right now. The map, on the other hand, provides strategic guidance - it shows you what your overall navigational plan is, and how you are progressing towards your goal.

Lane Guidance provided with voice prompt for appropriate lane
The picture doesn't match the example I provided above, but I think you will get the general idea.
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...pse79868db.jpg

Thank you for that compliment, but I don't think I will be doing any more trials of navigational equipment. Now that I have figured out how the Zumo 590 works, I intend to use it to assist me in achieving my primary objective, which is pleasant, relaxed sight-seeing and touring on my motorcycle.

As for the phone application, I'll keep it on my phone. I can see it being useful in the future when I visit other countries (without the motorcycle). For example, I will be going to Sudan and Vietnam in the new year... I have no desire to bring a dedicated navigator along, and the phone app should be perfect for whatever navigation needs (pedestrian or in a taxi, for example) I might have in those countries.

Michael

Sir:

I'm not certain how your specific device behaves, but be aware that many electronic devices that have a USB plug on them will behave differently depending on what signals are detected coming in from the wires on the USB plug.

For example, if you plug in a charger that has a USB connector on the end of it, the only signals coming into the device are 5 volts (+ and -) DC current. There are no data signals coming in. Hence, the device continues to operate normally, and the battery accepts the charge from the 5 volts offered.

If you use a USB cable to plug the same device into a computer, data signals will be sent down other wires of the USB cable, and the device will recognize that it is connected to a computer, and switch into 'computer' mode. In addition, if the computer supplies 5 volt power along the two power wires of the USB cable (most computers do), the battery in the device will also charge.

Try finding a USB charger with a plug that fits your device, taking care to ensure that it is nothing more than a power supply - a charger - and I bet your device will continue to work normally when you plug the charger in.

As for supplying your device with power on the motorcycle, there are many USB chargers out there that will convert 12 volt moto power to 5 volt USB power. Most of them have an end that plugs into a cigarette lighter socket. You can just cut that end off, install a fuse, and connect it directly to your motorcycle 12 volt wiring.

Michael

Load up a few more of the free ones and you can start testing and comparing them!
But, yes, you are heading in the direction of putting the dedicated navigator in the top/bottom drawer and using an app probably on the basis that "we all carry a mobile phone around nowadays" (just not a Blackberry!).

Just to emphasise that many motorcycles nowadays have a computer technology built in - classically the CANBUS of BMWs.
Hence my old Nuvi 205W behaves in different ways depending on which vehicle it is plugged into via a USB cable that is powered up via a 5 volt adaptor in the cigarette lighter socket (or a DIN socket, depending on the vehicle in use).
In any case it sorts itself out if it inadvertently goes into mass storage mode; on the odd occasion that it doesn't self-right itself (rather like those rather cleverly designed lifeboats) then switching it off and on again, while attached to the external power supply, seems to do the trick.

The Garmin Nuvis tend to fail on motorcycles because of vibration at the USB port. I've been through a couple of 265w. Just got a Zumo 350 cheap with different power set up on the bike. The dedicated GPS sure comes in handy getting across confusing Mexico, Central and South American cities.

I got a tablet to use as a satnav rather than replacing my satnav. what a disappointment, what a sack of sh1t. It is totally unreliable, the memory keeps filling up for some unknown reason and the apps as buggy as hell. It constantly crashes.

Both apps are paid for from 'reputable' suppliers. A total disappointment. I will be going back to a dedicated satnav/gps and don't see myself returning to a tablet for some considerable time to come.

Both my Garmins have failed at the micro USB connection in less than 2 years, mounted in a normal car under normal road conditions

Does this not make the case for fitting a bespoke reduced-vibrations powered mount?

If you mean with regards to the Garmins, my point above is I don't think it's related to vibration as both mine were just used in normal cars and my van on UK and European roads so very little vibration

I think it's just a problem with the quality of Garmins connectors, which is unfortunate as I do like their GPS, although I think these days they aren't really any different to any other. I still rate my old Garmin 2610 as one of the best. I particularly like the way you could view your route on the computer and set up a complex route with multiple stop overs.I can't find a way of doing that with any new satnav. Also I liked the way it was set on North up, which I prefer, but as you came up to a junction it switched to direction of travel automatically which made the junction much clearer.

It's just a shame I can't find a way of updating the maps on that old unit, and the fact it's built like a brick!

From what you say, it seems that the weight of the leads combined with motion, in time, wrecked your plugs and ....we are right back to the need to use a bespoke powered mount!!

I do not know your 2610 but I read that you can use a memory card up to 2GB. It should be straight forward to put maps onto those. OSM maps are surprisingly good and free. You may be able to 'enable/disable' maps within the 2610.

Basecamp does all you want as does the old Mapsource software.

You might even be able to have a rummage in the units own internal memory accessing it under good old 'dos'. There are sometimes solutions but all take time, effort, persistence and some know-how is needed.

Older/discontinued units can be really hard work/ nigh impossible with regards to mapping.
Their limited processing power and/or lack of memory are usually major stumbling blocks.

Modern units offer greater flexibility/ facilities & can do a great deal but all do so at a cost.
Maybe it is time to treat yourself to a new unit during the sales?
Or find a used Montana; it is an excellent unit.

Unfortunately I have very little knowhow!!


well, that was the plan with the tablet, that replaced the 2 nuivi garmins that had let me down over the last 3 years, both top of the range models, and a cheapo tomtom that outlived both those!

I thought the tablet might give me more flexibility with access to third party software etc for overlanding but it's just too unreliable.

The units are actually getting cheaper and cheaper all the time. The top of the range now are less than half the price of my first unit

I might try digging into the depths of the old 2610, does that mean it should be able to read any maps in OSM format?

Method 1 - fastest and safest
Remove the memory card from the 2610 and look at what is on the card. If it has an image file .. than you can replace that image file with a new image file from OSM .. for anywhere in the world. BEFORE you replace your original image file .. copy it .. so you can go back if you need to.

Method 2 -from your PC
If you can plan routes on your PC and transfer them to the 2610 then you should be able to transfer maps to it too? Get an OSM map on to you PC check your software can read it. Select the tiles you want to transfer to the 2610 and transfer them. Note this will over write the present map on the 2610 and you may not be able to get it back.

Navigation experience during a trip from the Netherlands to South Africa
 

In reaction to my post Open Street Map for Overlanders (please have a look) Walkabout pointed me to this post.

I shared my experience with navigation systems on our website Navigation - De Einder Voorbij. The text is below. For images and links to the mentioned apps and digital map sources please visit the site.

Summary
Navigation consists of four elements:

• Hardware and associated software platform
• Maps
• Applications and programs
• Waypoints, tracks and routes

In addition of course there are the traditional paper maps.

Hardware and associated software platform
For navigation route we bought an Android tablet (we are not fans of Apple censorship ) that can be inserted above the windshield on the rack in a holder so that it is clearly visible during the trip. An additional advantage is that the holder does not look like a frame for expensive electronics ; that reduces the risk of burglary . For planning we use a PC with Windows 8 and for hiking and cycling , we use a (simple) Garmin eTrex 20 .

Maps
While reviewing maps we looked at countries like Sudan and Ethiopia. In comparison with for example Open Street Map (OSM ) and Microsoft Maps we found the maps from Google Maps the best. We made off-line maps at zoom level 12 (1: 150,000) for the countries and 17 (1: 4000 ) for the cities. Once underway the Google maps prove to be fine for Europe, Turkey, Iran and the Arabian Peninsula, but not so well in East Africa; OSM is better there.

Android Apps
On the tablet we used so far seven programs: OruxMaps (free), MapsWithMe Pro (almost free), Navigator ("turn- by-turn " navigation based on Open Street Map, free), OsmAnd+, Locus Pro and BRouter. We also purchased Tracks for Africa ( T4A ) the most often used navigation software for Southern Africa.

OruxMaps
OruxMaps is an excellent program to display maps and to capture and create routes. It accepts both online maps including Google Maps and OSM ( with cache) as offline cards. OruxMaps works with bitmaps and vector charts.

MapsWithMe
MapsWithMe works with vector OSM. This means that an entire country is defined at street level in a relatively small file. MapsWithMe constantly shows the current position on the detailed map and can store and display waypoints . It is more limited than OruxMaps, for example because it does not store the distance traveled and shows no height and speed

Navigator
Our experience with Navigator varies. The quality stands or falls with the quality of the OSM maps and varies somewhat per country. During our preparation trips it was fine in the Baltic countries and Scandinavia (better than a two year old TomTom ) but moderate in Morocco. We used Navigator seldom during the overland trip. Navigator works offline.

OsmAnd+
OsmAnd+ works with OSM only. The user interface is not very intuitive and it has few options, but it has all functionality needed: display of maps, route calculation (both native and BRouter), storage of favorite locations and searching of points of interest. Furthermore it is faster than OruxMaps or Locus Pro and has large buttons, making it easier to operate the device while driving.

Locus Pro
Locus Pro is comparable with OruxMaps. It is well designed, can display bitmaps as well as vector maps and can store tracks and favorite locations. However, it needs BRouter for navigation, is slow and harder to operate while driving.

BRouter
BRouter calculates routes based on the OSM database. It can only generate a .gpx file with the route, so always an additional app is needed for display and destination entry. OruxMaps, Locus Pro and OsmAnd+ all support it. It uses its own database, so if you use it in combination with for example OruxMaps you need two map databases: one for map display by OruxMaps and one for route calculation.

T4A
T4A used to be the holy grail for travelers in Africa, but we felt that OSM is as least as complete and up-to-date. The philosophy of both is that travelers collect data that is consolidated by an organization. He had some experiences that T4A had a POI that no other source had, but also that the information of T4A was outdated. We use it for POI locations only, not for turn-by-turn navigation. As its road database is incomplete this gives potentially strange results. Furthermore the application is slow and the user interface not friendly.

Conclusion
In Africa the OSM vector maps are the best source. The main application we use is OsmAnd+ despite its poor user interface and limited options. In critical situations we use both Brouter and native route calculation with it. We check both routes and add extra waypoints as needed to get the right road as both sometimes give strange results. T4A is an extra resource to find POIs such as campings.

PC-software
For map preparation and for processing of recorded tracks PCsoftware is needed.

OKMap
Editing routes on the PC we do with OkMap (free). Editing on the tablet with OruxMaps. OKMaps can also create maps for Garmin. Mixing traveled routes (a.o. for this site) we also do with OkMap .

MOBAC
OruxMaps used to be able to create offline maps from Google Maps, but that is no longer possible for licensing reasons. For route planning it can be useful to have the maps on the PC. We use MOBAC (Mobile Atlas Creator, free). The standard version does not accept Google Maps as input, but a simple .xml file can be found on the Internet to enable it.

Paper Maps
For route planning we use the famous Michelin maps of Africa and Middle East. For most countries we have completed the map set with maps at country level, mostly maps of "Reise Know- how". Electronics are nice, but to be safe we bring paper maps in addition: the Michelin maps for the Middle East , East Africa and Southern Africa as well maps from different publishers of the countries we pass.

I use an IP67 dust/waterproof motorola defy as a dedicated GPS. It is always left in flight mode, and does nothing other than provide me with navigation. It also has an extended 4500mah battery (up from the original 1500mah) so lasts a long time. Not that the battery matters since it's always powered by the bike.

Hardware wise, it's let down by only polling the gps once per second. Top of the range sat navs, might do this more frequently (perhaps 5-10 per second). I never find that to be an issue.

Software wise. I use Sygic for road navigation. I much perfer this to Tom Tom and Garmin.

Off road navigation is where things get interesting, but OruxMaps and Locus seem to be the go to apps. Both have masses of features and can also use Garmin maps. Of course no-one buys a Garmin to use Garmin's own maps though.

My experience is that the app dictates the polling frequency. You could try the backcountry navigator free trial on that device to check I if you like.

Here's one (i.e. an app) that I have just found, and it reminded me of your earlier comments, as above.
I have been aware of amateur pilots using GPS for gliders and microlights in flight but I hadn't come across flight planning on Android, until today:-

QRouting

A bit :offtopic: but not totally disconnected from navigation!

I was wracking my memory trying to recall where else the motorola defy has been mentioned recently; finally, I found it:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-gps-use-79477
An interesting piece of hardware that is going for pennies as a second hand buy and the ruggedness of the product should mean that they are a good second-owner bet.
From my brief research of the defy it seems to have a minimum of 3 versions brought to the market, including the defy+ and the mini defy (the latter has a slower processor I think).

I haven't looked at Oruxmaps yet (I have been "playing around a bit", i.e. no serious research, with viewranger), but Orux is getting a number of appreciative comments in here.

Thanks Jan van B!
That is a very useful summary of your real world experience.
3 of your listed softwares are new to me, as above, and I guess it will take a bit of time to look at all of them in detail.
For OKmap, I see that there is a very comprehensive manual (some 230 pages!) with the software which could well act as a reference for anyone who has an interest in maps and digital mapping (such as me!).
http://www.okmap.org/download/okmap_en.pdf
It has one or two quaint English language expressions, being a translation from the original Italian I guess; nevertheless it is a great summary of the subject.
From a quick glimpse at this manual I would say that the software does everything that Basecamp/Mapsource do for the end-user; that's my first impression anyway.

Evidently, OKmap is produced at present for use on desktop operating systems and for the Apple products; maybe a version for Android will follow in due course (that will be why you use Oruxmaps for editing data on Android operating systems).

Update:
I have now skim read the 230 page manual for OKmap (it can be downloaded as a pdf file) and it is a very comprehensive explanation of the functions of the software.
Also, it provides a glossary of terminology and explanations of the terminology; so much so, that the first 100 pages or so could be more or less ignored for anyone who just wants to get on and use the software without being too bothered about, for instance, which datum is in use for their mapping.

Growing market for rugged phones
 

It being 2015 and the hardware hasn't been discussed in much detail for a while I did a quick search on ebay (for IP67) and it brings up more than 700 smart phones that have this as part of their specification.
Apart from the more well known brands there are plenty in there that I have never heard of previously!
The battery power of these ranges up to 4000-5000 mAH which should give good battery life, especially when used only for navigation.

Here is an up to date review of how the market for rugged mobile phones moved along during 2014 and it contains a clear explanation of the IP classification system as well.
10 Best Waterproof Android Phones | Digital Trends

Good stuff.

Yeah I'm using a Defy with I bought for £17 complete with a 4500mah battery.

I'm not sure about polling frequency. I assume that there is a harware limitation otherwise the makers of Orux, Locus etc.. would probably include an option to change the frequency.

I think it would be more of problem in built up areas and at speed, than out in the wilderness.

Does this model of phone need a SIM card to be fitted so that it can act as a GPS only, in the way that you describe (flight mode only)?

Also; I guess you are powering the phone via the usual USB port on the phone. Do you have any tips for connecting the cable? e.g. to maintain the IP 6/7 water resistance.

Ok so that with a Motorola Defy. It's an old phone and does need a sim card in it to use it, but the sim doesn't have to be active. I used an old giffgaff sim card.

The phone had an extended battery and cover so battery life wasn't usually an issue, but I used a USB cable to charge it, no problems. Obviously when the charging flap is open it's not water tight, that bothered me in a downpour, it's more of a problem if you were throw it in a river though.

If I was buying now (in 2015) I'd get something more modern and fit wireless charging, as I do on my Galaxy S3. In fact I'd probably get a Galaxy S4 Active, or Sony Xperia as the Defy really is long in the tooth now. (not as long in the tooth as my old Garmin Quest though)

Hmmmmm, that's a slightly different slant on things.

The £17 defy with a 4000 mAh battery still looks like a great working system on the basis of excellent value for money.
And it certainly does the job, yes?? i.e. a high-end smart phone is not essential for the mundune task of operating only as a GPS.
With that big battery I guess you could just charge it intermittently and there would be no need to do that during periods of rain while riding. :innocent:

The Active Samsung, as one instance, has a battery of about 2600 mAh so it's not going to have the same duration in use without on-the-bike charging.

I think the apps and type of maps you will run on it will be important.

For example the new sygic which is all 3D and whatnot is pretty slow to interact with. Orux is nice and quick with interaction so is TwoNav, with them it's about the type of maps/tiles you input into them.

Also there are some defy/defy+ users complaining about the GPS. I think there is some sample variation out there so do what you can to get a good one.

Ah, yes, of course.
Built in obsolescence of the hardware alongside ever-developing software/bloatware.

It's a very good, clear, point and the main reason that I try not to accept updates of software on offer from Microsoft and the like.

2015 review
 

Spring 2015 for the northern hemisphere and here is a recently published review, across 4 pages, of the technology.
This tries to address the subject matter of this very thread; a review of a few dedicated units, inevitably from Tom Tom or Garmin, along with some reviews of satnav apps.
Best sat nav 2015: the best GPS navigation devices and apps in the UK: Sat nav - apps for your smartphone | News | TechRadar

There is even a nod in the direction of a motorcycle gps unit (the Tom Tom Rider as it happens, which at this time of posting is quite dated in that it does not refer to the current model).

Ruggedness is almost fashionable
 

Another 3 months of progress and it seems to me that the Chinese are manufacturing with this market in mind.
IP67 phones are now on offer at not a lot more than £100 in the UK.
DOOGEE Titans2 DG700- Waterproof, 8MP, Android 4.4 Phone

For a few more £ the specifications go on, and on.
AGM STONE 5S review:the first 4G rugged phone with Quad Core Tri-proof 5.0 Inch Screen 4050mAh battery | Vifocal

A bigger screen, more memory, more processor, massive battery capacity, more everything from yet another pair of phones that I had not heard of before today.
:thumbup1:

Well a few tough pistes in Morocco and and some sandstorms and we had the following:

Garmin Quest - Failed on the final day (hardware/software error)
Garmin 62 - Failed (multiple battery problems needed a complete reset)
Motorola Defy (Failed due to prior firmware issue, needs updating)

Samsung Galaxy S3 was fine, but I'd previously got mine wet in 2013 and damaged the charging circuit which meant I couldn't use continuously on the bike.

As an update on my previous post. All devices are now fully working again after a wipe and reset.

I much prefered the Orux Maps app to the dedicated garmin, but I imagine newer garmins have much better software than the old Quest or the 62.

I'm trying a few things on my current road trip through the States. I've got an S2 with a clapped out battery in an ultimate add-ons case mounted to a WRR. I'm riding everything but single trail. But plenty of corrugated and rock strewn gravel trail.
I'm trying backcountry navigator with .map files, "here"maps and osm+. On the underpowered S2 osm+ is the clear winner. It's nut that simple to get the offline maps to show. Still don't know how I did that. But you can configure it as much a you want.

Problems for me are the case and the processing and electric power. Although with the clapped or battery it's tough to say, but I think it needs 2 amp. The power, also ultimate add-ons, didn't make a good connection so our runs out of juice. The S2 isn't powerful enough to run backcountry navigator with the pre loaded maps. Which sucks because the other apps don't import GPX files. [Edit: OSM does. Just select the GPX file in a file browser and open it in OSM] Then the case. It's not waterproof as I found out today.
So a few things to improve on. But overall I love the large screen, great detail, free maps and great graphics.

Try orux maps. My Defy can run that and it can import GPX and even use garmin map files.

Thanks. I'll reinstall that one.

I'm not able to install my .map files though. Is there another thing to do other than copying it in the correct folder?

Dunno what I did but it's loading them in now.

I've actually done all my SA planning in Bascamp and despite selling my Garmin Quest, I'm thinking of buying a dedicated device just for ease of working with basecamp. Shame Garmin don't have an andriod app considering they have an android device in the Monterra.

It smells a lot like they don't want to write off past investments. Feels a bit like Nokia with Symbian.

New ideas to try
 

Feeling that Garmin is being a little cheap in terms of screen real estate, I am tempted to try one of these, waterproof, dustproof, shockproof, microSD fitting, 8 inch tablets.

Samsung's new Galaxy Tab Active looks and feels rugged in the hand | Android Central

Since RAM are now making lockable mounts for tablets ...

RAM Tab-Lock™ Locking Cradle for 7" Screen Tablets including the BlackBerry PlayBook, Google Nexus 7 & Samsung Galaxy

How are you guys attaching the phones / tablets to the bikes?

Just on the handle bar clamp. You can get ram balls for that.

Not sure if that holder is robust enough.

what would you recommend Taco based on your experience using them? Something custom?

Is a 5 inch screen optimum??
 

I do wonder about the need for an 8 inch screen; the bigger the screen the bigger the power draw from the battery.

Playing about with a Nexus 7 (7 inch screen therefore) a while ago, the 1 amp USB connection would not keep it charged.
I then tried out a USB connection that was supposed to be providing 2.1 amps, according to its' labelling. The Nexus still was losing charge while using the GPS capability and with the screen display switched on.
IIRC, with the screen display not showing, the tablet would charge.

You know I love custom! Well, used to anyway.

Something that big would be a challenge on the bars. Isolating vibes would be tough. Most phone cases have a thick rubber bedding for that. Not sure how heavy they are so not sure on the stress on the ball socket neither. May need to look at the 1.5" ones.
Map pocket of a tank bag comes to mind without going custom on the dash (if you have a dash). I never liked the distance to reach on the rally dashes.
For phones I really like the handlebar clamps. It's never in the way and easy access.

The heat argument is a valid one. Not an issue with sufficient air movement but most of the cases are black which I guess heats the trapped air enough to really get the temps going. Painting it white might help, or just don't leave it in the sun for prolonged stationary periods in above 25C weather.

I am thinking bolt the lockable holder to the rally dash (probably with a rubber sheet between it and the dash) ... it weighs a similar amount to a Montana, which i have mounted to rally dashes before. Shouldnt be a problem. Just keep the font size large enough to be legible while riding.

Will play around with it.

Same with the powering. I think a hard wired 2.1 amp usb charger is the best bet. The cig lighter sockets are not idea for powering devices. Hard wiring the charger to the battery I suspect is going to solve the charging problem. I see uber drivers using 7, 8, 10 inch tablets as GPS powered big screen navigators all the time. They get by with a cig lighter charger. The vibration on the bike added to poor connections available from cig lighter sockets is almost surely the difference for bike riders having charging problems that uber drivers dont seem to have - and is solved by hard wiring.

Sounds viable. I had problems with the connector to the phone. Same on the Garmin. May have to secure that on the dash a well. 2a should be plenty.
That plastic looks brittle though.

That was my assumption also, based on the output of mains electricity chargers stated to be 2 amp; but when charging at the mains the screen is not usually displaying data.
It's the screen leds that draw a lot of power.


Below is a quote from an online review for a 3 amp hard wired charger:-

"Just remember that if you want it to charge smartphones or tablets, you have to short the data pins on the USB socket so the device thinks it is connected to a mains charger"

They may be on to something; certainly I didn't do this in my experimentation.
This would be very relevant if the vehicle in question is of the modern variety; the connected device could interpret the signals to mean that it is connected to a computer - in this case, the ECU of the motorbike/car/truck.

I wasn't aware there were 3a chargers. Interesting. Not sure it's required though. 2a is a lot. Not sure on the draw from that large screen thing, but easily tested. I've found screen mirroring to use the most amount of power. The thing really warms up. So using full brightness with GPS and maybe Bluetooth to headphones wouldn't be a problem. Wish the thing could go on Bluetooth on flight mode though. It does for GPS. Turning the cell reception off saves a lot of power.

It's a shame a lot of the maps don't have more contrast. Often it's light colors on white. Some can be manipulated or just put it in might mode. But the glossy screens do produce a bit more glare. It's manageable the same as Garmin screens but I'm thinking of experimenting with a little shade cap. Should also mitigate the heading a bit.

My earlier quote was taken from an advert on Amazon for such a fitting.


Agreed.
In any case, the power draw will be in relation to the bit of kit that is attached to the charger i.e. it varies.
So, we are referring here to maximum capacitiies of chargers; I checked the "small print" on a variety of chargers that I possess - small print because I need a magnifying glass to be able to read it and it is the kind of information that we all tend not to bother with, usually.
2 of them are for mobile phones and they are rated at 0.3 amp and 0.6 amp.
The third one is for the Nexus 7 and it is rated at 2 amp.
All 3 are of that type which plugs straight into the mains supply, thereby connecting that power and lowering the output to a constant 5 volt DC passed on to the bit of kit via a USB type A cable.

Screen mirroring??


Yep, I too have played around with a home made shade made of a bit of plastic covered in black tape to reduce reflection and attached to the GPS with more black tape and blu-tack.
Pretty it wasn't, but effective it was.

Screen mirroring to a tv. It's pretty awesome but uses a lot of power.

Ah OK.
Via a HDMI cable, bluetooth or wifi - any or all of them I guess?

No it's wireless through the Wi-Fi network. Hence the power

Garmin 590LM
 

There's a review of one of the latest garmin models in another thread.

It's within "equipment reviews" and I thought it worth bringing a link into here for the "pros and cons argument" contained in the title of this thread.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...m-review-82727

AGM Stone first impressions
 

So, I've put my money on the counter and bought the AGM Stone phone shown in the link above (for just less than £100 via auction on UK ebay).

It's early days but first impressions are excellent; the spec in the link above gives a load of detail, including some statements that I don't fully understand.
No matter, this thing is as fast as it can be - switch it on and the damn thing just works; maps come up as fast as I can press the buttons.

Incidentally, behind the back cover shown in the linked information (which is screwed into place) there is an additional cover with a rubber seal which protects the innards from H2O, dust etc.
I don't aim to deliberately test it up to the IP67 specification but it appears well capable of resisting rain water.

Looks nice. Keen to find out about how it deals with prolonged periods of sun.

It's not particularly warm in the hand, running a load of software.

Like all screens there is some reflection when outdoors but it's not bad in bright sunshine - I suspect that the resolution of the screen pixels helps with that.

Apart from hand held use, so far I have used it set up in a 4 wheeler; directly exposed to the sun behind a windshield the case was still not especially warm to the touch while running the GPS mode and a mapping app.

That was the main problem with my old Nokia N80. Back then there weren't really motorcycle GPS about, so it was kept in the map pocket of my tankbag.

The phone was well known for being slow due to a lack of memory, but it would heat up and just get slower until it crashed. Still it got me 5,500 miles to the black sea and back.

I didn't express that sentence too well: the phone is not warm at all when hand held - it is at whatever the ambient temperature happens to be.
There again, I have warm hands!!

I guess it is down to the powerful processor (see the specs for that detail) which should be able to run a lot of software therefore; I am not in to gaming and all that type of thing so this specification does what I want.

Most phones will accept an internal sd card of course for app storage purposes.
I'm using a 16 Gb card in the Stone which accepts upto 32 Gb max. IIRC.

I've already forgotten the built in memory spec for the AGM Stone (perhaps 4 Gb, maybe 8?) but it will be in the earlier link; that doesn't seem to be a limiting factor for the Stone.
I've yet to find a limiting factor of the Stone for the purposes discussed in this thread.

ps
It's 8 Gb of ROM with 1 GB of built in RAM

Not so much a limiting factor, but it does feel quite heavy to the hand; comparing it today on some scales the AGM Stone weighed in at 248 gms while a Nexus 6 in a plastic protective case weighed 217 gms.

My "wanted" smart phone specks...

Need;
micro SD card at least 32Gb
WiFi
USB GTO connection
Small enough to fit is a shirt pocket
Availability of additional protective silicon case
Availability of additional protective gorilla glass
4 band 3G
At least 8 Gb internal memory
MP3 player
Battery life of at least 1 day!!!

Like;
4 band 4G
cheap

Present phone Samsung S4 mini dous. Misses on the USB GTO, has USB and might be routeable for the GTO function.

GPS specks?
Need;
Run 'my' Garmin maps
Battery life of at least 1 day on internal batteries
Automatic swapping between internal and external power
Viewable in bright sunlight!
Able to create a route, and use it.
micro sd card for memory of at least 2 Gb
Tracks automatically go to the memory card, date stamped and saved each day.
Easy swapping between maps
External power, say, 5 volts to 36 volts.

Like;
Run raster maps

Present GPS Garmin 60Cx .. misses ... not great in bright sunlight, no raster maps. External power limits (I'd have to look those up)?

For the software aspect, there are some interesting reviews of OSMAnd, Orux and Soviet Military Maps in this thread/post:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...vigation-81406

Here gone there
 

It wasn't even in my list of some 10 months ago, but I think "Here" has been discussed in here since last Oct.
Anyway, briefly, Nokia pulled out of manufacturing mobile phones having failed to foresee what was happening with smart phones, eventually licensing Microsoft to use the Nokia name on their Lumia branded hardware - that's the potted history for the hardware side of things.

Nokia went on to concentrate on producing maps with the brand "Here".
Now they have sold out that whole area of activity to the German car manufacturing industry:- German luxury automakers purchase Nokia’s Here mapping services
For a couple of billion of some currency or other.
The reasoning for the purchase is given, briefly, in the link. Not so clear is why Nokia wanted/needed to sell.

In any case, I guess the free app for Here will be available for a bit longer but I have lost interest in dabbling with Here.
I remain grateful for the existance of OSM! bier

The AGM Stone that I got lasts about 6 hours while running with no external power attached.
I think it would go a bit longer because it comes up with a "15% battery remaining" warning after said 6 hours of running navigation software while set in aircraft mode.

Batteries are a definite weak point. I'm struggling right now with communication. Garmin had the rino but I can't seem to get them to show each other on the map like they're meant to. Been emailing Garmin about this. They've given me instructions of how to solve this but nothing worked. Their last instruction was to buy new ones. What planet are they on. Never Garmin again!

Forget Garmin me thinks
 

Thanks for the info in this thread :clap:

I have a Garmin Zumo 390 and for the $800AU I paid for it :thumbdown::blushing: it's crap.
I could have bought a smart phone, waterproof case and good mapping software for it for less cost and had much much more functionality.
I have used garmins for many years on yachts and bikes but they are not as good as they used to be considering the advances in technology in the last 10 years or so.

In my opinion a smart phone or small tablet is the way to go now.

I'm heading off to Turkey this week and I'm planning to use OSMAnd on my Android phone, mounted on the handlebars in a waterproof case with a usb power lead from the bike battery.

I've created routes in Google Maps (My Maps) by creating a driving route and dragging the route across the mountains to what look like fun roads to explore. This is a simple task on a laptop / PC but nearly impossible using the touch screen of a phone / tablet. I have found that it is made possible by connecting a mouse using either bluetooth or an OTG cable. This will save me lugging a laptop around just for the sake of creating gpx routes.

I then save the Google Map as a .kml file and convert it to a .gpx file using the free web based tool Kml2gpx.com: convert kml to gpx online. It's free, simple and fast

I then download the gpx file to my phone and load it into OSMAnd.

This all seems to have worked nicely so far. Hopefully it works when I'm out on the road! Cheers!

I recently used my Samsung Galaxy S3 with the TomTom app for a trip to the South of France and back, it worked perfectly. You will need a power source and decent case though. I got a waterproof case off ebay and run a power lead in from the usb socket on the bike.

Screen operation through the case is a bit hit and miss with gloves on, but otherwise it's the best satnav I've ever used. I run a 32gb sd card and have all of Europe and Africa on it, they take up about 7gb. Maps for the whole of the world are free to download, and then mean you don't need a network connection like you would for say Google maps.

I've actually just got a new phone and I'm keeping the S3 to run as a stand alone satnav, as I can also use it for music through my bluetooth intercom as well. Second hand they are something like £60, and reset to factory settings it's superfast again!

It also means I have a spare phone if needed, as all I do is swap the sim card into it.

I have ended up with a whole range of USB cables varying in length from about 150mm to over 1 metre; these deal with different bikes and the varying positions of the 5 volt power source on those bikes.
+ I have experimented with straight connectors and the right angle type of micro USB.
All of those cables do the same job and cost pennies.

Just to clarify, you are using the S3 phone as a GPS/navigation device without any sim card in place and there are no issues with that?
I expect it approximates to operating the phone in aircraft mode.

I've been wondering where such a killer app is for Android.

There are a few ideas about route planning software in the thread linked below, but I haven't yet found the one that bypasses desktop/laptop/notebook computers and makes it childs play on a phone/tablet.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...hich-one-82808

In my last post in that thread I thought I had found an app that uses cross hairs to show where the "big fat finger" is on the screen, but .............................. I 've lost it!!

No issues with it being offline at all, in effect it runs as a stand alone satnav, using the same graphics etc as the new 400 system does. It will obviously still connect over wifi, so if you have a few forums etc you can still access the net.

I was seriously considering a new satnav, but at £350+ I'll stick with my phone!

The only option I could find on the new 400 series that the app doesn't have is a twisty roads function, but I can read a map and program way points so I can live with that :-)

If you already have a smartphone the app and all maps are free. You get something like 50 miles a month to use to try before you buy. It'll give you an idea if it's for you or not. If you run it in a network connected phone it'll even give you advance warning of traffic jams etc. It worked in France for hold ups as well, and meant we could plan an early stop for food etc if the traffic ahead was bad.

Thanks for the info about your experiences with the hardware and the software.

I guess Tom Tom "sort of own" (patent?) that twisty roads feature.

I still fall back to using maps - the ones with notes written all over them in pencil and multi-coloured highlighter pens (because a pencil will always manage to write whereas a pen can fail) - notes about the best twisties, views, pubs found en route, and the like.

I guess the app is more based for car drivers, and they only add the twisty roads feature to motorcycle devices?

It looks like about 6 hours is the battery duration for this phone when not connected to an external power supply; is that a "good" duration for a 4000 mAH batt? (a rhetorical question perhaps, except for the lithium-ion experts of this world).

The 6 hours I quoted earlier was based on use while mounted in a 4 wheeler and used as a navigation aid.
Now it has lasted about the same duration while used to track a route on 2 wheels - because I wasn't even slightly interested in navigating electronically, the phone was simply in my top pocket, operating a tracking software different from the earlier nav software.