Small heavy/light bikes
 

I have the idea to go small.
Small not only in terms of cubic.
But in size and weight

But .... what has happened to the weight ??

I was loooking at a Suzuki DL 250

DL 250: 178 kg !!
GN 250: 129 kg
GSX 250: 154 kg

178 kg for a 250 cc bike !!
My old Kawasaki 350 from 1973: 151 kg.

(Moto Guzzi 850 -72: 211kg
Moto Guzzi 850 -20: 229 kg)
And...
I do not want a competion enduro bike with seat hight of 900 mm, 11 liters fuel tank and oil change every 3000 km.

The larger street bikes have lost a lot of weight over the years.
Compare a GSX 1100 for 1980 with a GSX-R 1100 from 1990 or newer.
254 kg => 197 kg (A large part due to enginee weigth)


So what bike has this

Weight: max 155 kg
Seat hight: Max 830 mm
Front wheel size: 19 or 21"
Fuel tank: Min 15 liters
Price: Low
Availible: As EU model

Should be any problem to build a 350 cc bike like that

I might go back to an 80-ies bike. Restore and modify.
I would be cheap. And after restoring it myself. I would thrust it.
And modification could be done instead of buy all those options for a new bike ?

Thats my idea.
What are yours ?

I have considered rebuilding an older, lighter bike and taking it on a trip and think it is not a bad idea, my R80G/S was something of a 25 year old mess when I bought that and after a rebuild has been a reliable travelling bike albeit bigger than you have in mind.
Something aircooled along the lines of a Suzuki DR350 or Yamaha XT350 would be a good place to start and you should be able to pick up such useful modifications as an Acerbis tank, aftermarket bash plate if one is needed and a modern, rebuildable shock absorber.
Your choice of bike could also be affect by spares availability, if it looks like one make or model has more back up than another it could be the one to go for.

My idea is that you want to spend as little money as possible, but you want a manufacturer to invest in building this bike for you. :)

Anyway, the answer is CRF250L. 145kg. Modify the tank if it's not enough (but I bet it's enough in the real world - carry a rotopax for anxiety).

Old vs new
 

R80 GS : 186 kg
F850 GS : 229 kg

Development in the wrong direction.


Suzuki DR 650 SE: 162 kg
That would be a good candidate for med. Even if it isn't "small"
But never imported to where I live due to not EU complient.

Youre totally right about the Suzuki DL/V-Strom 250, 178 kilos is waay beyond acceptable for a 250 cc bike. Very disappointing it is...

Anyhow - in stock form there are not many models that will fit your criterias.
The CCM 450 ADV will probably fit your wishes but its not sold anymore and I dont know about the second hand market and I dont know about reliability and spare parts availability.

The KTM LC4 400, also made as an sturdy army model. (There are threads on this forum about this bike, just use the search function) Of course not many avaialble for the moment and reliability and spare parts I dont know about.

KTM 640 ADV - maybe a tad heavier than your wish and not made for many years but there are still some around.

Suzuki Dr650 - an ancient relic and not available in Europe since around year 2000 due to emission restrictions. But readily available in most other part of the world. Its actually a great bike but will need some upgrades. Dry weight below 150 kilos but will need bigger gas tank, suspension upgrades, windscreen etc etc

All the current 250 dual sports of Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha will fit your need except they will need bigger gas tanks. Which I belive isnt too much of a problem to get a hold of.

Edit - forgot the Suzuki DRZ 400. It should fit your whishes except the gas tank size, which I guess you can find an aftermarket solution for.

The new CRF250 is supposed to have a bigger tank. I'm expecting 11.2 litres rather than 19, but it helps.

The weight is partly self inflicted (by the motorcycle community in general) and partly because the world cannot support 7 Billion people driving Ford Edsels.

ABS because we want to be safer in mass traffic. There isn't space for everyone to have enough stopping distance on cable operated drums.
Catastrophic perverters because we don't want St. Greta whining at us.
Masses of bodywork because we want to look like we are doing the Dakar
Electronics because rider modes, LCD displays and adjustable suspension sell.
Simple materials that are light and effective are banned because we want to use ten times the amount and they kill fish even in 1970's volumes.
Bikes are cheaper than ever because they are designed for manufacturer and rarely used extreme performance not everyday use.
We demand ever bigger numbers on the spec sheet.

I am currently restoring a 1973 CL350. It is superior in so many ways to my CB500X. The basic shape is everything I could want in a bike.

I would love Honda to make a modern one but know a physically small bike will be slated on ADV-rider, MCN and other clown sites. I would love MASH or one of the other Chinese front companies to sort themselves out on quality, but the market is too small for £6000 400cc bikes.

Andy

Yes, but would you purchase it with your own money, new from a dealer?

There are things people "know" and things that actually happen. "Clown sites" seem to love the 390 Adventure and the CB500X to death.

I change my modern bike every three years at most, so buying a Scrambler style CB300 type thing would make more sense than another CB500X or CRF250 or BMW310 or Himalayan or other offerings that failed to tick as many boxes back in April.

I'd actually want to pay more if they'd save me the hassle of replacing ****y OE tyres etc. but that definitely won't happen. They still don't see why a rider with 30 years riding experience and no huge limitations on funding won't buy an Africa Twin. You'd assume plenty do.

The CB500X is a nice enough bike, it does exactly what my F650 did 25 years ago with fewer break downs. In terms of current offerings I think its the best all-rounder. In terms of innovation it does what a rebadged Italian learner bike did in 1995!

Andy

I'm sure your dealer will happily take your money to let you take delivery on a bike with different tires. ;)

They absolutely do. Anecdotally - last year in my moto marshal team, the most popular bike by far was an R1200GS. Now all those people have switched to Africa Twins (and some prior V-Strom 1000 and NC750X owners too).

ADV-rider is a "clown site"? Uh oh, I better stop going there to read the epic ride reports... :blushing:

ADV-rider a clown site !!! - now hang on a minute :rofl: They've got the best girl on an old motorcycle section I've ever seen. :scooter: Pity Grant doesn't have one here. :rolleyes2:

Is Gunz-gunz-gunz-and moar gunz still going?

Andy

My short list
 

I am down to a short list.
For a bike, not to be used for going around the world.
But for going to interesting places. Beyond the tarmac roads.
Where my touring bike is to heavy and clumsy.

This is my preference. Based on what I am going to use the bike for.
And what I already have in the garage.

Enfield Honda Yamaha
Himalaya NX 250 XT 350

Weight Dry/Wet (kg) 182/191 118/133 120/???
Seat Height (mm) 800 820 855
Fuel Capacity 15 9 12
Front Wheel (Inches) 21 19 21
Rear Wheel (Inches) 17 16 18
Ground Clear (mm) 220 250 275
Power (hp) 24 25 31
Torque (Nm) 32 24 29

Himalayan is a bit heavy, but has a low center of gravity.
So I find it easy to handle anyhow.

Honda has the lowest fuel capacity.
Can be upgrade. Or live with that restricition. Some spare fuel can be carried.

Yamaha is little too high. But I asume that I could lower it 25 mm, without any problem.

If I find a Yamaha XT350 or Honda NX250 in decent condition, close to where I live. I will go for that.

Else, I will go for the Himalayan.

==

Going even smaller. Honda Brazil produces nice bikes, like the Cargo.
And Indian bikes....
But in Europe we get what the market asks for.
And what the regulations decide.

I would also consider a Yamaha Serrow or Honda CRF230 (not 250) if you can find one.

You need to go to CS&M for the real fireworks.

you have all missed the best................. Yamaha wr 250r:scooter: