... And these 2 Suzuki engines had/still have a proven pedigree for reliability and longevity. As I mentioned in an earlier post, CCM went bust in the mid-2000s using these 2 engines, in the "good old days" of bike selling when their potential customers had money and cheap credit was available.

Well I dont think you can say for all of us that its a question of "what will do it". If you are stubborn enough you can take a Goldwing across Mongolia. Whats the point proving it can be done? Thats ego. Why not be allowed to do what is actually fun for you?

Ultimately, like anything in life, its about happiness. Enjoyment. Pleasure. There is no greater currency. I dont want to take a Goldwing where I like to ride, cause it just wouldn't be fun for me. And I dont want to sit on Kymco 125 for 18,000 km of asphalt with 1-2 short stretches of light graded gravel roads across the "Great Australian Fu@k All", cause for me, its not fun - personally, nothing would bore me more.

Its unreasonable to imply if someone doesnt fancy riding a 125cc Kymco across the GAFA for 18,000 km its because his ego is in the way.

The "what will do it" or "any bike will do it" mentality is for people who dont care about the bike. The focus is travel. The bike is merely a means to get there.

Thats fine but dont kid yourself that its a view that speaks for all of us. Some us do like the riding as much as the travelling. For those of us that do, the choice of bike is of equal importance as the choice of route. For those of us who do find a lot of value in the actual riding, the choice of bike tends to be one in which you apply critical thought and rationality ... what bike will do what I want it to do? I would guess that a lot of guys who are looking at this bike are in that "rationalists" group when it comes to bike selection. Its not about ego. CCM is hardly a brand that you can boast about down at the next HUBB meet. Its not about size. The bike is half the weight of the 1200cc tanks. Its about rationality. Its a very light bike, with a modern brand name engine, excellent suspension, big fuel tanks and looks to have the potential not just to be go to far more remote places than the big adventure bikes, but to allow you have 20 times the fun doing it. For some of us, its about choosing a bike that is fun to throw around in the dirt at high speed. Whats wrong with that?

For that, for me, a Kymco scooter wont cut it, nor will any of the current 800cc and 1200cc bikes, nor will most of the Japanese 1980s vintage singles, like KLR650s, DR650s, etc ... thus, for some of us, this bike is potentially very interesting.

None of them are built for adventure travel. None of them are marketed for adventure travel. None of them are even available in Europe because the technology in them means they are a couple of generations behind modern emissions rules which means no carbs, no air cooling. Sure you can modify them to make them suitable, but then you can do that to any bike really ... which gets back to the old point, if any bike is an adventure bike, then there is no such thing as an adventure bike.

Besides, the performance of them reflects the fact that they are 2-3 decade old designs.

The topic was clearly referring to Adventure Bikes, as in on the dealers showroom floor adventure bikes.

The only bikes I would consider to be out of the box, purpose designed and marketed single cylinder adventure bikes in the last 2 decades are the KTM 620/640 adventure and the Yamaha Tenere.

[QUOTE=colebatch;427923].

The "what will do it" or "any bike will do it" mentality is for people who dont care about the bike. The focus is travel. The bike is merely a means to get there.

Thats fine but dont kid yourself that its a view that speaks for all of us. Some us do like the riding as much as the travelling. For those of us that do, the choice of bike is of equal importance as the choice of route. For those of us who do find a lot of value in the actual riding, the choice of bike tends to be one in which you apply critical thought and rationality ... what bike will do what I want it to do? I would guess that a lot of guys who are looking at this bike are in that "rationalists" group when it comes to bike selection. Its not about ego. CCM is hardly a brand that you can boast about down at the next HUBB meet. Its not about size. The bike is half the weight of the 1200cc tanks. Its about rationality. Its a very light bike, with a modern brand name engine, excellent suspension, big fuel tanks and looks to have the potential not just to be go to far more remote places than the big adventure bikes, but to allow you have 20 times the fun doing it. For some of us, its about choosing a bike that is fun to throw around in the dirt at high speed. Whats wrong with that?

I cold not agree more with these statements - for me the daily ride is far more important than the destination and to enjoy that ride the bike must be something that meets your own particular needs at that time and for that riding. You summed it all up very well. Jake.

Ted have you done much work on these engines ? Speaking to CCM roughly what I have been told was CCM have changed the ignition map, lowered the red line and that the torque and mid range area of the motor are better tuned for this application, which with other changes you would think cam timing would be an area to hit straight away - That along with 5000 mile service periods suggests a far milder motor than the pure enduro motor it was based on. Problem is everyone is guessing and at this point till its released to the press they aint saying..
I know when I did all the work on my r80gs/ HPN project altering the piston, changing the gas flow, altering the ignition map and putting in a 296 cam, along with a heavier crank and a change in gear ratios changed the bike completely from a standard BMW gs engine, it had oodles more torque everywhere with a very fat flat torque curve and yes it ran out of speed and revs around 90 mph lower than a standard gs but was far far nicer to ride in every other area of the rev range for the application I used it - so I would assume to do this when buying new engines direct from the manufacturer it would be easy and cost effective to dial in a few new specs on the manufacture over a large order and would also change the whole character of the engine. It would seem madness spending all this money on a chassis/ bodywork suspension and build program to throw in a fiery peaky pure enduro race engine. As Chris reminds us CCM have made big mistakes in the past - I would think like most of us we try to learn from our mistakes NOTE: ( I have just learnt to remember not to start writing on here with a belly full of beer and neat sailor jerry rum jeiger and start to harp on about japan and whales. !!! In a pub it's all in the mists of the night before and forgotten the next day on hear well its still on here) :nono: jake.

To be honest, I have no experience with the engine whatsoever. I just think its far too early to write off. No one makes a bad engine. Its just how its applied, finished and tuned...
Ccms aren't bad bikes. You just have to know what you're buying. Everything from 2005 onward has been pretty good.

Their SR40 is bloody brilliant. I want one !!!

www.touringted.com

Maybe you shouldn't make blanket statements either.
The TE610 was Husky's dualsport model, built for road duty with 3000 mile service intervals, improved alternator output to power accessories and lights

The power output from the 575cc motor is around what I'm hearing CCM is getting from the 450, although knowing both motors (in BMW trim anyway), the Husky is much less dependent on revs to make progress.

The 450 was fat more slanted to the dirt/race side of things than the 610, and in fact when BMW bought Husky, that motor was moved into some Husky 'race' models.

Maybe CCM / Kymco has done a lot more homework on this motor, improving stator output, service intervals, power band characteristics, setting up several years supply of parts and so on, but most of that will take at least 2 and maybe 5+ to prove out.

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Seriously? What sort of service would you need that much to get between you and your dream bike? If you can't do any maintenance personally or can't receive parts in the post I could understand. I can't say I've ever needed a dealer mechanic ever I think. If anything, I actively try to stay away from them. I certainly don't get my parts from them. Even Yamaha charges ridiculous prices, like 65 bucks for a 18 dollar relay.

I agree with your point but I think he was arguing on the basis or reliability not anything will do the job.

The whole point of reliability is a difficult one I think. I've never had anything go wrong with the F650 Dakar, a loathed bike by a lot. And I have had issues with the still considered bomb proof completely rebuilt 3AJ Tenere. If it's new and well built it's likely to last a typical 25k km trip.

EXTENSIVE or expensive ? Stator bolts, water pump seal, . . . what mod was expensive ?

Classic ? Sure, a box of parts that is neither lovely (the rear shock looks like something from Soviet days, the thin magnesium case covers on an already heavy bike will puncture from a hard stare, the brakes which are at their limit BEFORE a subtle mod to airbox and jetting, the ridiculously thin (22g) electrical wiring to the similarly pathetic headlight, etc) nor inspiring (torqueless even after carb & intake mods and 5-speeds (!)).

Yeah . . . the TE610 is powered by a very street-oriented motor. The subsequent TE630 has the benefit of the same overbuilt bottom-end and a better top-end (from the TE510, a race bike) but in both cases a significantly lowered state of tune. Husky was very forward stating that the "TE630 is the most street-oriented motorbike we've ever made . . . following on the TE610".

The TE630 is supposed to be 20% more powerful than the TE610 and that's been widely discredited. If there's one complaint with the TE6xx's it's that they make significantly less power and use significantly more fuel than a KTM 690. I have a TE630 and at the price point it was a good value and if possible would have it in Thailand replacing my DRZ400 in a heart beat !

The 450 was . . . forced on Husky. It does not have a great rep, deservedly or not. If it were so good . . . why would BMW abandon it ?

Few if any on this forum MUST ride a motorbike. Being entirely rational is a bit . . . odd. It's two wheels - it's inherently unstable . . . it should be FUN. Kymco 125 . . . fun ? To each his own but just riding to cover miles . . . or to do it most cheaply . . . those are the forced decisions of many people all over the world. Those who COULD have some fun SHOULD have some fun.

Expensive as in it need radiator guards, a plastic tank, case guards and 3x3 modding to make it a nice bike to ride and a hardy bike to overland across Africa. After those mods it's pretty much bullet proof IF you know how to look after them.

It's still a bit of a classic for those who like simple, easy to ride and easy to work off road bias lightweight bikes. A bit like the XT600's but lighter and more capable.

The suspension is actually pretty good. It's not race spec but it's WAY better than what comes bolted to a lot of 'Adventure bikes'..

There's nothing on a DRZ that a Haynes manual mechanic couldn't diagnose and fix. It's light enough and easy to lower so good with the ladies too.


I'd ride one RTW over an F650 ANYDAY...

So yeah.. I think it will become popular in another 5-10 years when you can't buy a single bike which doesn't need to be plugged into a computer to keep it running.

Horses for courses though isn't it..

Tmotten: I was quite capable of servicing the Husky myself, I still have all the tools to strip a different reassemble the motor.

However, it doesn't sound like you have lived extensively in 3rd world countries. I ordered something from Hong Kong recently, got it 2 months later (instead of the quoted 1 to 2 weeks, fortunately I'd put my girlfriend's phone number on it as the post office couldn't find her address.
90% of houses here don't have street numbers or often even street names: the delivery guy forks to the village / suburb office to see if they can give directions, or they just ask around.

I tried to ship a laptop here 2 years back: 2 weeks quoted delivery time and cost was $120 to 200 plus, USPS or FEDEX. And even then it can get hung up in customs or in the local delivery loop.

Lastly, I travel around, and don't get a lot of pleasure in dragging a complete set of tools and spares with me. I may as well be on a GS in that case.

I hear the folks that want to have their ultimate machine, because they enjoy the way-out riding more than the travel and seeing stuff. That's funny as well, been there myself in the past.
But I'd put it to you that maybe you shouldn't be RTWing in that case, instead pick a bunch of ideal riding destinations where you won't get too far from support and medical, and have at it.

If you try to push the limits in most 3rd world countries, you stand a very good chance of crashing, and that isn't much fun at all: BTDT, don't want to do it again. Medical & emergency services, bike recovery / repair, trip delays/cancellation, are mostly much worse out here than in the West.

I also tend to disagree that you have to have the latest and greatest to enjoy the ride.
There's something to be said for the idea that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow.. In many places I've been, you will spend more time throttling back a top-end
Some of the best trips I've done have been on 125s to 200cc bikes, going places that would have been difficult and tiring (or impossible) on big machines. I find that I can enjoy riding 90% of the bikes out there. Excluding cruisers of course: I'd rather ride my bicycle...

Ad for the idea that bikes aren't the best form of transport, I rather disagree. Many of the places I've been recently you can only get to by bike (usually smaller ones) or horse/buffalo. That's how the locals transport all their stuff.

And very often in those places, you don't want to be on the latest & greatest, blending in by riding what the locals do (or something close) vastly reduces the likelihood of kidnapping & robbery. At the very least, the 'American tax' (higher prices asked from foreigners) is likely to be much reduced if you blend in with the locals better. You will also have more genuine interactions with them.

Just an alternative perspective on bikes and travel, we each have to work out what works best for us.

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Apologies for the poor editing / spelling above, Tapatalk beta is doing some weird stuff including not allowing me to edit posts. Anyway, hopefully the gist comes through.

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You seem to have some strongly-held beliefs about motos that I don't necessarily agree with, so...

:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping: Yeah, whatever...sorry, but in my experience GS are generally pretty reliable. I know its fun to hop on the anti-GS bandwagon, but...

I think there's a slight gap between a Kimco and an "ultimate machine," and I guess people should choose what they RTW on, rather than you deciding for them. People can and do RTW on just about everying from post-bikes to Harleys to Goldwings. And you hardly have to limit yourself to "ideal riding destinations." I mean, c'mon...

Who says you have to "push the limits" to have fun? Again, there's a large gap between riding a 125cc and "pushing the limits", and I enjoy spending my vacations squarely within that gap.

sorry, to suggest that I will suddenly "blend in" with the locals, or that I will have more genuine interactions with them, because I'm on a tiny bike is a bit ridiculous. I guess that could be partially true if I left all protective gear at home as well so, but I'm not willing to do that, and as long as I don't will hardly blend in with anybody.

Must admit I care not a jot what anyone chooses to ride - it does not affect me I loved my KTM I loved my 80gs I really quite like my Infield, My first travel bike was a r65 bm back in the mid 70's I also liked that for all its faults but I also like my pushbike and i like walking - can't figure out why everyone seems to be so uptight about other peoples choice of whats the right and wrong way to go places - I mean I never figured out the sidecar thing :confused1: but then again a really good friend Iain and Debz just used one such contraption to do their RTW and completed the journey with some ups and some downs but is that not true of any machine you would use - great fun but bleeding weird and for mad, eccentric and strange people (Sorry Debz if your listening in but he does look mad and weird and I am sure I detected a hint just a smidgen of eccentricity in the plot, your just as barmy in a more controlled way me thinks - you hide it well, and both great friends to me so I forgive you those particular traits ) Jake.

Hey...

What about Ewan and Charlie ????



Almost time for that isn't it ???


:eek3:

I totally agree with this, i only passed my bike test in April and i am currently on a bike trip and i am very new to this type of traveling however i soon found out i am a biker and not a traveler (however i am more interested in meeting people than i am at looking at old buildings) and i took a lot of time researching the bike to choose (DRZ400 with alot of mods) and if i was on a 125cc i think i would i gone crazy touched the bike and caught a flight back


However what i have come to the conclusion is from searching forums is that if there was no internet, facebook, blogs ect ect would these people that ride C90s, honda melodies ect ect long distances still do it if there was no audience to say "your are real crazy"

In other words if the tree falls in the forest and there was no one around to hear it fall would it still fall? :innocent: